Fusione fredda Renzo Mondaini—trascrizione

I just tried inverting electrode polarity (still with the voltage set as 265V, but I haven’t checked in practice if it’s still the same—will do later and probably increase it) and applying electrolysis and I noticed some strange effects.

If I immerse the (now) small-area anode slowly, current is very low (0.02A from the multimeter, no increase in AC mode from the current probe) and a persistent “ball” of water forms around it. Electrolysis does not seem to occur to any significant extent. If I further immerse the anode, this phenomenon disappears and regular high-voltage electrolysis starts, with current increasing to substantially higher levels. I think I need to increase voltage to start seeing a plasma.

I've made a video of the process with the camera on a tripod, and it's a bit blurry, relatively long (3 minutes) and probably boring. It's unlisted.

• Voltage increased to 333V (no load)... No change upon testing: still getting water balls.
• Voltage increased to 380V (no load)... Finally getting a faint, high-rate violet plasma. On camera it looks deep blue for some reason. I think it’s due to the wavelengths going into the UV range. I've made a video.

• Could this be related with this earlier comment?

Quote from BruceInKonstanz

As I remember, Fauvarque and Clauzon said that they got excess heat only in a certain, hard to obtain condition of the plasma, which did not arise immediately and where it became steady and gave off a violet colored light.

More observations as I keep testing, in chronological order.

• Doubling the electrolyte concentration does not seem to have made a significant effect. I think it will have to be increased substantially and possibly using KOH or NaOH (which I don’t have, but it’s readily available) might help.
• Instead of tweaking voltage further (although I might decrease it to 350V) or adding more electrolyte, I will try using a copper wire.
• I used a new section the same oxidized wire as before, halving the number of strands and obtaining a 0.9mm thick wire. I might have to thin this out more later on.

• Still with voltage at 380V… The 0.9mm thick copper wire barely improved, but overall still a weak reaction with a violet plasma (blue on camera) I’ll try using next 5 strands for roughly 0.5mm of wire diameter.
• Getting a larger discharge rate, but still a tiny plasma. I will try increasing voltage further.
• At 423V I’m now getting both a water ball and an appreciable rate of discharge and brighter plasma, so it is encouraging. Current seems to be very low despite the noise and light. Only 0.01A in DC and no AC from the current probe. The probe also agrees on current being low.
• At 458V the noise from the plasma is almost deafening, although not as annoying as with the explosions previously observed with the electrode as cathode.
• I noticed that the water ball that forms cyclically disturbs the reaction, but oddly as it does it starts glowing by its own light. It doesn’t seem to be reflected light, but it could be an impression. I made a video showing this phenomenon. There’s a relatively large violet-blue glow around the anode.

• Upon watching the video I noticed that significant electromagnetic interference is being picked up by the camera microphone, so the audio is distorted.
• From spectrum analysis of the noisy audio it seems that the carrier frequency is about 1800 Hz. Noisy harmonics of this can be observed.

• I made a test with a transistor radio and despite earlier impressions it is not picking as much interference as expected, although some can still be faintly heard also in the FM range. This could be due to the low current involved.
• Voltage increased to 475V… Plasma looks violet but slightly hotter/with a more incandescent core, a fuller sound but also possibly a lower rate of discharge. DC about 0.03-0.04A.
• Voltage increased to 500V… Same as above including current, but slightly greater effect. Splashing of electrolyte droplets now occurring, and there’s less tendency of the disrupting water ball effect to appear.
• The jar is warm after the previous testing. Electrolyte solution temperature is about 35 °C. Room temperature 17.5 °C.
• Voltage increased to 527V… it’s getting quite loud and energetic, but still not producing bright incandescence. I think it’s now louder and more annoying than with the previous cathode reaction and ear protection is required. With my own eyes the plasma looks violet with an amber core, but on camera it’s blue. DC 0.04-0.05A, current probe detects no AC yet.
• I made a video with a tripod but due to space constraints I had to use an odd filming angle and proper control could not be performed while still keeping things safe. The blinking light from above is from the Geiger counter LED:

• Upon inspection, no wear nor melting of the anode wire seems to be occurring, but I haven’t tracked this carefully.

Since by swapping electrode polarity at the moment I'm doing things more similar to Bazhutov/Parkhomov et al, here are translated tables and an annotated drawing from their patent application.

I tried checking out a few times the patent, and the thin pointy electrode appears to be indeed the anode, which is counterintuitive. However, thinking of the flow of electrons (from the cathode/emitter to the anode/collector), one might view this as favorable in that its point of contact with the electrolyte would be concentrating (or receiving) a large amount of them on a very small spot. This condition would be a true "bottleneck", which could possibly explain why it takes higher voltages to obtain the same current.

This is just my speculation however. Perhaps there are other explanations. It could be interesting to hear from Parkhomov on the subject.

Dr Richard

I haven't been following SAFIRE and I didn't know that. It could be relevant. At the moment in my tiny low-power cell there's probably only a very limited amount of hydrogen at the anode, but by increasing temperatures more extensive thermal dissociation of water (mainly from the hot plasma) might begin.

Dr Richard

At the moment I'm using mild steel and copper, materials (especially the latter) which do not load significant amounts of hydrogen. The main issue though is that I would need proper wiring to safely disconnect/turn off the high voltage DC-DC boost converter and connect the other power supply at 5V or 12V to the electrodes in the opposite polarity, then the other way around. The current setup is quite flimsy and of temporary nature, and I can't do that with it. Worth considering, but I think eventually just increasing temperatures/current will do the job.

BruceInKonstanz

I'm not saying that there is excess heat yet or regarding multimeter–clamp meter measurement as serious; I'm basically showing that with the opposite electrode polarity and higher voltages in the present conditions, there is a difference in behavior on that regard. An oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer would certainly tell a more accurate story. Thanks for the tips, however.

To make sure that I was not observing also copper ions, I just swapped the copper wire with the previously used KOH-cleaned 0.9 mm steel wire and made a quick test with the previous voltage setting of 527V. It is still emitting a violet plasma with an amber hot core. With the smartphone-camera colors look slightly different. I took a photo this time. This test quickly reminded me that it's loud, by the way.

It's also possible that it could be violet from nitrogen in the atmosphere. An image from Wikipedia:

I tried looking for more information on the experiments by Bazhutov which are related with the ones originally discussed in this thread.

https://lenr.su/reliz-2014-201…oblemy-erozii-elektrodov/ (see Google translation)

A short report by a group who tried to replicate them. A few notes:

• Bazhutov indeed used anodic plasma, which is contrary to what people normally do
• Voltages in the order of 700V in current-limited PWM mode worked best. Bazhutov required at least 400V, but a simple diode bridge+step up transformer to 660V did not work.
• Loud hum during operation (which could be compared to the quiet operation at lower power levels when the electrode role is swapped?)
• A strong electrolyte concentration reportedly increases efficiency, but also electrode wear
• In the end the group didn't reproduce every claim

Regarding the electrolyte, in the patent application linked earlier it is also pointed out that performance increases by increasing its concentration. They use up to 10M NaOH, which sounds scary, though.

Quote from Google Translation

in experiments with anodoplasmic electrolysis in all series with a pronounced dependence of the systematic increase in excess heat on increasing the electrolyte concentration.

More links:

• https://lenr.su/plazmenno-elek…shix-rabotax-2014-2015-g/
• https://lenr.su/reliz-2014-201…oblemy-erozii-elektrodov/ (linked above)
• https://docviewer.yandex.com/?…_20158.pdf&c=5590de3320d6
  • Presentation; slide 2 shows again that the anode is the pointy electrode
• https://e-catworld.com/2015/06…p-to-6-times-excess-heat/
• https://e-catworld.com/2016/04…-system-video-in-russian/
  • Transcription-translation of a meeting in Bazhutov's laboratory
  • Powerful 700–2000V power supplies used
  • In the video, at 1:25:00 they turn a device on and it's loud, with pulse-like operation, although at a countable rate probably from powerful pulses displacing a significant amount of water every time than in my low-power tests.

Verdict: possibly this can work or appear to work as claimed only under the extreme conditions required (high power, high voltage, intense pulses, strongly caustic electrolyte solution), which might pose difficulties regarding power measurements, electromagnetic emissions and ultimately personal safety. Still, it could be interesting to check out if there are more unusual observations to be made in my low-power configuration with the so-called anodic plasma.

More comments on some testing I just attempted, in chronological order.

• In accordance to Bazhutov’s indications, I will try to increase electrolyte concentration to higher levels. Currently there are in total 1.04g of K2CO3 for a 0.27M solution in roughly 28ml water. Adding 2.94g grams more for a total of 3.98g of K2CO3, making it about a 1.02M solution. It will probably dissolve slowly at the current room temperature of 16.2 °C without stirring.
• I made a short and longer semi-unattended test with the 1M K2CO3 solution at the previous voltage setting of 527V. I had to move the wire rig a few times to keep it running, either due to electrolyte vaporization or anode wear, but the main issue was that electrolyte droplets were splashing all around, which can be a safety hazard. Otherwise, current draw was still about 0.04A and the DC boost converter did not seem to heat up very much. No significant visual difference in the reaction was observed.

• Upon watching the video, in retrospect a few times it failed due to the reaction reverting to electrolysis, probably from water droplets cooling off the wire and/or plasma just above the electrolyte surface. It also looks as if as it progressed, the core transitioned from a markedly violet color to a more incandescent appearance, producing more of warm light on the close surroundings. However this is difficult to demonstrate with still frames, so you will be better off watching the video to check out.

• From a quick waveform analysis I think the individual explosions (or sparks?) were occurring at a rate of 250 Hz.

Alan Smith

I don't think there is any particular chemical hazard concern with potassium carbonate (K2CO3) yet, but the splashing that seems to have become stronger could make it easier for the exposed high-voltage terminals and wires, and lower voltage electronic components to short-circuit. With KOH or NaOH the same splashing issue could be an even more a serious problem. I might have to use a different cell configuration soon in order to keep testing. I do already have a few Kg of sodium bicarbonate that could be tried, though.

Mondaini in his videos said that sodium bicarbonate, as well as other ion-conducting electrolytes, also works in his experiments. However Bazhutov's anodic plasma experiments apparently require a higher OH- anion concentration in the solution in order to work efficiently, which is why they use(d?) strong bases at high concentrations.

EDIT: I tried an improvised setup with a partially closed plastic box and the splashing is worse than I thought.

EDIT2: I came up with some sort of temporary solution with a plastic bottle that also allows inspecting the reaction, but it’s not practical (given that the reaction will likely not start when the wire is already immersed and that short-circuits with the other electrode must be prevented), not as safe as it might seem, and fogging quickly becomes an issue. However the plastic cap allows tweaking electrode height by 1–2 mm which can be useful.

In the process I ended up increasing voltage from 527V to 550V, which appears to have had the effect of increasing the rate of discharge.

I think the diagram on the right in the image below would describe a condition similar to that of latest electrolytic experiments described in this thread. Also, electrons from the hot anode would probably not even have a chance of getting emitted by thermionic emission (due to the anode voltage) and further contribute to the flow restriction.

If a large local density of electrons is conducive to the formation of electron clusters, the situation on the right diagram could have an advantage, although it will be disadvantaged from the point of view of maximum possible electron flow for a given voltage. So higher voltages will be needed to overcome this.

Although I’ve never realized it until Dr Richard mentioned it earlier, the notion that the SAFIRE team uses a small anode and a large cathode area (the large plates in the photos below) in their gas discharge system could be compared to some extent to what Bazhutov and others in the Russian LENR scene tried to accomplish in their aqueous systems. So it might be that in the end the opposite (and more intuitive, since it gives visually impressive results more easily) approach of using a small cathode surface area that many have done all along is not the correct one.

Photos from https://safireproject.com/scie…iles/SAFIRE-Phase-Two.pdf

Shane D.

I have to point out however that it is just my interpretation and might not necessarily be correct. It's also difficult to find explanations from the Bazhutov et al describing what their anode plasma discharge system is intended to do besides involving their own Erzion particles. There does not seem to be much available in English language.

I unexpectedly found a report here however: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=940

The document summarizes the first few "Fakel" plasma experiment series also cited in their patent application.

Comments in chronological order from a brief test made earlier.

• I have added 90 ml tap water in a new larger jar and with a cylindrical copper cathode configuration. This is more similar, at least in principle, to the original arrangement described by Bazhutov and colleagues, with a large area cathode and a small area cathode facing each other.

• I will start without electrolyte at 550V… and after a brief test, no reaction other than some fizzing was observed. Current from the multimeter was 0.04A. If I immerse the anode further I can get readings in the order of 0.23–0.25A which is the current limit of the DC boost converter. I’ve made a short unlisted video.

• Therefore I’m adding 3.15g K2CO3 solution, which in 90g water should be a 0.25M concentration. It’s slow to dissolve… stirring a bit before starting.
• Trying again at 550V and 0.25M K2CO3… now it works. I’m getting a hot-looking self-repeating buzzing plasma. Current draw is 0.04A from multimeter, but now the clamp meter is detecting 0.10A in AC mode. In DC mode it’s not clear as low current levels in this mode are noisy and subject to an offset. I might have to replace the battery soon.

• The steel wire anode at times shows a tendency to attract water, forming a kind of “ball” or droplet that sticks firmly onto it.
• The electrolyte solution has become cloudy white. Is it normal? A couple photos before and after.

• After several minutes of inactivity it’s still cloudy white. I don’t know what to make of this.
• Overall, the larger jar appears to have done a better job preventing excessive splashing, but some is still occurring and it will probably increase at higher electrolyte concentrations. Speaking of which, clearly the electrolyte is required to make the reaction work.
• By eye the plasma this time looked hotter than in earlier tests where I was getting blue-violet sparks.
• Just checked voltage again to make sure. Relative to ground, the cathode (copper cylindrical electrode) is at -267V. The negative terminal goes into it, as a further confirmation. So it is indeed negative. The voltage across both electrodes is 551–552V.

Alan Smith

After about an hour of time, it might be the case, as at that point the solution was slightly less cloudy than before. I made another test afterwards, though; notes below.

• To bring the solution to 1M concentration I’m now adding 9.45g of K2CO3 for a total of 12.6g of K2CO3… after a short test still at 550V, splashing has now become severe and the discharges have become sharper and more separated in time.
• The “water ball” effect at the anode has also become more severe and it disrupts the plasma reaction even more than before. They can become about 4–5 mm large and have a cloudy appearance, similar to the electrolyte. They burst into smaller droplets and quench the plasma.
• I’m now seeing also peaks up to about 0.3A AC with the clamp meter, while the multimeter still measures 0.03–0.04A DC. The more impulsive nature of the reaction probably has to do with this.
• The plasma still looks somehow incandescent. However if I immerse the anode further I can see again some hints of it returning to a blue-violet color that I’ve also observed before with the smaller jar. Further immersing the anode inhibits the reaction, making it revert to regular electrolysis with a higher current draw in the order of 0.25A (and probably much lower voltage).
• None of the quick solutions (plastic mesh, paper, etc) I’ve tested for limiting splashing seems safe. As soon as they get wet with electrolyte droplets, since they’re in contact with the jar sparks/plasma can start occurring there too. Electrocution through them is also a possibility.
• I tried measuring input current (at 12.2V) to the DC boost converter with the clamp meter. It varies repeatedly between 1.6A and 1.9A, sometimes reaching 2.3A, but it isn’t a very efficient device. Obtaining a steady measurement is not possible. Power consumption under these conditions could probably be taken as 19.5–28.0W.