Fusione fredda Renzo Mondaini—trascrizione

Alan Smith

Could be. A fine light gray precipitate was formed in the process.

Wyttenbach

Admittedly, this reminded me too of some of Rossi's latest claims about excess electricity, but what did I debunk exactly?

On a related note, I also tried using another 12V lead-acid battery (which was half-depleted and sagged to 10V under load) but I couldn't reproduce the back-voltage effect with the same intensity as the other (good) one: it only oscillated by about 1V and ended up discharging more.

Although quite unlikely, If it's truly producing excess back-current, it should be possible to use battery power more or less indefinitely or even recharging it in the process (!). However, I can't imagine 22–24V or higher spikes to be good for long-term battery health.

Another test with the good battery was successful again in producing the same observations and showed that:

• Back spikes to the battery up to 40V and sometimes even about 100V are produced. This can't be good for the battery.
• The voltage effect seems to occur independently, or at a later time than the current oscillation seen at the electrodes (I have a multimeter in current reading mode in series with the cathode).
• It seems to occur best when the tungsten cathode is hot (almost as bright as an incandescent lamp filament) and close to start blinking brightly (I'm assuming from oxidation). However, after the tungsten erodes the effect is greatly reduced (also observed earlier).
• Higher KOH electrolyte concentration causes stronger voltage spikes. At a too high concentration the tungsten cathode starts eroding too quickly, however. Increased KOH can also restore the effect a loss of 'activity' after the cathode erodes, but too much of it causes excessive current draw, making the process overall inefficient and the plasma reaction difficult to control (it either works at a low level or too much, causing cathode erosion).
• I didn't manage to observe a real battery recharging effect (too good to be true?), but the working time under conditions where such back spikes are observed was limited.
• It's still highly possible that this is a just high-voltage power supply issue/quirk (e.g. insulation failure in the pulse transformer/coil?)

It looks like configuration B in the diagram below might be more effective in causing large RF noise / voltage spikes back to the power source. It might be due to faster heating of the cathode tip from decreased thermal conduction to the supporting rod.

EDIT 2020-11-04: I tried using 24V input with the two 12V VRLA batteries I have in series, and the HV converter (Amazon link), which accepts 8-30V DC input, appears to work better, with a noticeably stronger plasma reaction. While open-circuit voltage was the same (about 385V on either +/- side), load voltage was probably higher (did not measure it). The current oscillation and back-voltage effects seemed mostly unchanged, when conditions were right. It appears that the Fan +V pin however on the circuit board outputs the same voltage as input voltage, so lower-voltage fans will have to use a different voltage source.

Quote from Latifah

If you want cavitation near the electrode, why not make the electrode itself be the ultrasound source?

Hielscher has easy to use ultrasonic electrodes (cathodes and anodes) at all power levels (think kilowatts), various electrode materials, big temperature range, closed reactors for pressure, ...

See: Hielscher Ultrasonic Electrodes

This could be a very interesting idea; it would definitely be a more direct way to generate voids and/or faster boiling at the electrode interface. I wonder however if it would support the temperatures and current spikes observed during cathodic plasma electrolysis.

Please note moderators ( Alan Smith, Curbina, ...) : this user may have been wrongfully banned.

Quote from Cherepanov2020

Взаимодействие с другими людьмиВзаимодействие с другими людьми [...]

If "hydrowave" means "cavitation", it is likely to be occurring in my case. It's also likely that having the cathode electrode (the one where the plasma occurs in my case) not rigidly connected to the supporting rod (as described in the previous post and partially seen in the attached video) causes it to vibrate more, possibly increasing the effect.

When it's operating, the cathode emits acoustic noise with harmonics up to RF frequencies and beyond. This is easily observed using an AM/FM radio receiver.

After more testing with 2x12V batteries in series:

• The reaction seems (again) overall stronger, likely due to the HV converter operating more efficiently with a higher input voltage.
• It seems possible to use higher electrolyte concentrations than at a lower input voltage: I ended up using up to 5ml 0.1M KOH (which I prepared a couple weeks ago) in about 40ml tap water, without issues for the reaction that I'm trying to induce
• RF noise and in particular voltage spikes to the power source still seem proportional to electrolyte concentration, at least up to the point I reached
• My DSL internet connection (i.e. telephone line) seems affected significantly at a higher electrolyte concentration, but still not as much as with 12V input using a power supply connected to the mains
• At one point I saw >100V spikes to the batteries, although typically these would be lower. I don't know exactly why this would be occurring; expert circuit analysis would have to be performed at some point to determine what sort of boost topology the HV converter employs
• Local RF noise is still relatively high just with tap water and acetone, but effect on DSL then is minimal
• Ideally the cathode would be operated at the highest possible temperature that does not cause flash erosion, or a blinking effect
• I still couldn't manage to actually recharge the batteries, but one of them was bad and might have limited the effect. To be fair, it's unlikely that this would be really occurring.

Below is the local RF measured with a 40cm whip antenna up to 150 MHz, first with just tap water and 2.5 wt% acetone, then (eventually, after about 1 hour of testing) with the addition of 5ml 0.1M KOH (at that point significant electrolyte evaporation had occurred so the total water content was about the same as on starting conditions).

The yellow line is the background RF noise. The peaks at about 90-108 MHz are from FM stations.

Acetone is needed to keep the immersed tip of the cathode in a clean metallic state, otherwise it oxidizes rapidly at high temperatures and no or very limited current oscillation effect and RF emission occur.

Curbina

I'm still not sure that it actually was a spamming attempt. In any case, although interesting that does not seem compatible with my testing conditions (and it's likely to be too expensive and specialized equipment for what I'm trying to achieve).

In another test with a better 24V battery for input power into the high voltage boost converter I managed to reach high enough temperatures to apparently form a ball of melted tungsten, but without flash oxidation/combustion.

After an initial period where battery voltage decreased, voltage began slowly increasing, but it was likely from erosion—the cathode decreased in length quite a bit—and increasing water temperature, causing more boiling and less efficient conduction (i.e. less load to the battery). The previously observed oscillation at the battery wasn't very large in this test either (it seems easier to observe with cleaner electrolyte and a new cathode wire).

After some more testing It seems necessary to increase solution conductivity to a sufficiently high level in order to see the reverse current effect at the batteries. However, if the cathode erodes too much, conductivity decreases. It is not easy to balance with just manual operation at a high fixed voltage cathode wear and operating temperature.

So far, at best, the 24V battery pack I used does not get depleted to a significant extent when voltage oscillates at a level above its open-circuit voltage. No actual recharging seen yet. Given the extensive testing period this could still indicate an anomaly, although not by a too large margin. The HV converter is supposed to operate at an input power of 40W at maximum load, with 70W peak.

I took a video of battery voltage after switching off power to the HV converter, three times. The third time was after about 8 minutes of testing with indicated voltage constantly above 26–27V during load conditions.

The 0.45mm tungsten wire got consumed significantly in the process, so it could still be that I'm just "converting" it into electricity—that is, if a reduced or null effective power consumption when the plasma reaction occurs could be indeed confirmed.

I ended up using 5ml 0.1M KOH and about 2.5g acetone in 45 ml tap water. Water evaporates relatively quickly, so the level remained more or less constant from the beginning to the end. RF disturbances at a local level and observed at the DSL/telephone line were still quite present.

EDIT 2020-11-07: these are the power-off battery voltage curves from the video above:

Some notes from limited cathodic plasma electrolysis testing performed over the past few days:

• I think my 0.1M KOH solution is slowly turning into potassium-sodium silicate as I have been keeping it in a glass jar for several days now. Fine white residues have formed. The reason why I have not been preparing it anew for each test is that every time I open the KOH bottle it seems as if water is progressively getting absorbed by the KOH flakes contained there.
• Even with the addition of larger amounts of acetone to prevent oxidation, HCl electrolyte (added in drops to achieve a similar conductivity) does not seem to help particularly with cathodic plasma electrolysis. Heat produced appears to be relatively low, and much splashing occurs. This could be from the negative Cl ions getting repelled by the high voltage negative cathode (same polarities repel). Adding KOH (or what it is now) back makes the cathode turn brightly incandescent and even flash bright white again (at the cost of much increased wear).
• Citric acid (again similar conduction) appears to have a similar effect to HCl. Reaction stabilizes and does not "burst" as easily into bright incandescence. Also, it seems as if splashing increases compared to just KOH/alkaline electrolyte. KOH addition restores the old behavior at least in part.
• The main practical problem I have encountered so far is that the back voltage effect seen at the batteries (14 Ah 24V pack from an uninterruptible power supply) seems short lived: tungsten cathode wire erosion quickly reduces it, probably from debris or removal of free KOH in the solution. In a test I also noticed that the the debris-filled solution does not seem to get visibly neutralized with HCl, which usually causes vigorous bubbling. This could mean that free KOH is removed from the solution when the tungsten cathode erodes.
• It also seems that the more time (days) passes the more difficult is to reproduce this backvoltage effect. This could be from the KOH solution degrading (from glass and CO2 absorption from the atmosphere).
• The back voltage at the batteries seems independent from the current oscillations seen at the DC ammeter in series with the cathode and the RF emission. Or more probably, it might appear when these become particularly strong.
• I'm considering trying completely different electrolytes than what I used so far, e.g. KNO3, KHSO4 (or the cheaper alternative NaHSO4, of which I might already have a canister somewhere)—which should be an acid—, K2SO4, but I'm not completely sure about safety aspects or if they may generate too strong smells when they decompose.

EDIT: a brief test with K2CO3—which surprisingly I haven't used so far in the cathodic electrolytic plasma reaction I have described in the past few weeks—gave the same effects and issues that I have observed with KOH, using similar concentrations. However, it will be probably less aggressive on the same glass container.

EDIT2: from another test with K2CO3, but using an old but charged 12V battery (instead of the good 24V battery pack), it seems as if the battery voltage spike effect is much easier to see at a lower input voltage to the high voltage converter. It's difficult to gauge exact battery usage with short tests (voltage spontaneously rises after removing load), but it is not getting recharged, even if measured battery voltage when the incandescent plasma is active constantly spikes above 13V (often much more than this).

I did not measure RF specifically this time, but apparently RF noise was so bad it caused my DSL router to lose its internet connection once, even if I just used battery power (no noise injected directly in the power line). The "minimum" red line in the upper graph below from the router control panel shows that the peak disturbance was particularly large.

I realized I haven't yet produced a video showing both the plasma and the voltage spikes measured with a multimeter to the battery. Here is a brief test using about 35ml tap water + 2.5ml 0.1M K2CO3 solution + 1.5ml acetone, and a 0.45mm tungsten cathode where I do just that.

In the background there is a multimeter measuring 12V battery voltage into the high-voltage DC boost converter I'm using for powering the electrodes.

When conditions are right, voltage spikes even above 100V are apparently observed at the battery. At the same time, intense RF emissions are produced (not directly shown here). An oscilloscope would be useful in order to tell what's going on exactly.

magicsound

In the above test I put it directly behind the jar in order to show it along with the plasma reaction, but usually the multimeter is at least 40 cm distance from it, close to the 12V battery used to power up the high-voltage DC boost converter. There did not seem to be significant differences in behavior from this one test and those performed in the previous days, but I could try putting it further away and check out if there is any difference. I don't have shielded cables for the multimeter, however.

More than the DSL modem/router apparatus itself, the reaction appears to be affecting the telephone line into which digital data is transmitted to/from the modem. Fast DSL internet connections are relatively sensitive to impulsive and strong RF disturbances, so in a way mine is working as a sort of "detector". See for example this random paper from the internet for a possible reference about the issue (just the abstract is fine): https://lafibre.info/images/ad…pact_of_Impulse_Noise.pdf

If I use battery power I only get limited disturbances that do not significantly affect the connection, but when I use a 12V computer power supply, I get service interruptions and many "unrecoverable errors". Furthermore, noise then starts appearing on nearby equipment like loudspeakers and so on. I suspect that the high-voltage converter might in that case be injecting voltage spikes into the mains and the telephone line (through the 12V computer power supply).

magicsound

Here is another test, with the multimeter put about 1 meter away from the cathodic plasma electrolysis setup (jar), very partially shielded with Al foil. A similar voltage spike effect was observed also at this distance.

The electrolyte solution and electrodes were reused from earlier testing, but 1 ml 0.1M K2CO3 solution was added to make up for the loss of potassium, which apparently gets sequestered from the solution by cathode erosion. Otherwise, this voltage effect remains low, regardless of how brightly and loudly one gets the cathode to shine in the same reaction.

Even in this video it can be seen how the effect is high in the beginning but tends to decrease with time. This is because without being able to look at the multimeter in real-time, I wasn't able to gauge how far I could push the reaction in order to show the effect. It is most visible when the cathode looks hot, but if temperatures increase too much, erosion occurs.

The HV converter is turned on at minute 00:20.

I made some other tests in order to verify if radiofrequency emissions affect the multimeter used.

First (minute 00:00), I tried adding another (not so good) multimeter to see if the battery voltage oscillated wildly also with it. It seems this was the case. In this test the instruments were about one meter away from the jar.

Then (00:58), I tried placing the multimeter-clampmeter without cables close to the jar, and I got disturbances in the order of hundreds of millivolts.

Finally (01:27), I added back the cables, but did not connect them to anything. I then got apparent voltage spikes even above 200V. It would seem that the cables are acting like some kind of antenna, and a more or less large part of the previously observed disturbances could be due to this.

In these tests I used newly-prepared electrolyte solution, but I inadvertently added more water than usual, and the electrolyte concentration ended up being lower than in earlier tests. Because of this, the voltage effect seen was in turn also lower than usual. Even so, it was large enough to be measured.