The NEDO Initiative - Japan's Cold Fusion Programme

  • The following JPEG contains my answer.

    [Photo of AC unit 2 meters from rig]


    I've seen this before in a different setting. It's to be expected unless extremely controlled exterior temperatures and constant or zero airflow are are used, by, for example, enclosing the exterior of the rig in a water jacket that is kept at as constant of a temperature as possible by a thermostat. Almost all labs have some kind of HVAC connection to keep the inside environment at habitable temperatures and humidity, and almost all labs have one or more exterior walls, windows, or roofs that couple the exterior environment, diurnal solar heating and night time radiation cooling, and convection into the rig's experiment room.


    What can be very helpful is if the AC unit and its fan blower unit on/off times are registered in the collected data so that the obvious change in external air convection can be at least noted on the charts if not (through extreme calculation gymnastics) filtered away. One idea is to cool off or heat the room before the experiment starts, then turn off the HVAC for the data collection period, collection room temperature as part of the experiment, and leave the door closed with the room empty during the data collection period, so that only free convection and radiation would occur.


    All this is a real pain in the behind and is essentially a type of experimental noise, lowering the signal to noise ratio. That is why the ideal experiments need signals so large that you can drive a 18 wheeled truck through it -- so that the estimation of the environmental effects can be grossly simplified with minimal calculation work, without significantly lowering the probability that the positive result was experimental error.

  • The statement

    "

    We show the results in Fig.19. Level of reaction energy per D-transfer is from ca. 100 eV/D to 500 eV/D.

    Of course, such data are still beyond explanation by some chemical reactions that are of level in 1 eV/D or less.


    is interesting...


    500 eV is in the same ballpark as Holmlilds dense hydrogen condensation

    and Mills dihydrino(1/4) condensation


    The value of 495.8 eV matches very closely with the value Mills measured for his “Hydrino” condensate.

    The values that are posted in countless Holmlid papers are less reliable because such spin-paired H*-H* on

    surfaces do couple and form clusters of 3,4 and more atoms where some also can be in a normal Rydberg state.

    Perhaps this large hydrogen condensation energy is relevant to the H(D)-Gas Turbulence Effect by Local Large AHE   suggested by Takahashi et al

    to explain the oscillations measured in the upper reactor region by T4..





  • Hi anonymous,


    I've seen this before in a different setting. It's to be expected unless extremely controlled exterior temperatures and constant or zero airflow are are used, by, for example, enclosing the exterior of the rig in a water jacket that is kept at as constant of a temperature as possible by a thermostat. Almost all labs have some kind of HVAC connection to keep the inside environment at habitable temperatures and humidity, and almost all labs have one or more exterior walls, windows, or roofs that couple the exterior environment, diurnal solar heating and night time radiation cooling, and convection into the rig's experiment room.


    What can be very helpful is if the AC unit and its fan blower unit on/off times are registered in the collected data so that the obvious change in external air convection can be at least noted on the charts if not (through extreme calculation gymnastics) filtered away. One idea is to cool off or heat the room before the experiment starts, then turn off the HVAC for the data collection period, collection room temperature as part of the experiment, and leave the door closed with the room empty during the data collection period, so that only free convection and radiation would occur.


    All this is a real pain in the behind and is essentially a type of experimental noise, lowering the signal to noise ratio. That is why the ideal experiments need signals so large that you can drive a 18 wheeled truck through it -- so that the estimation of the environmental effects can be grossly simplified with minimal calculation work, without significantly lowering the probability that the positive result was experimental error.


    Your considerations are quite reasonable. However, if the purpose of an experiment is to demonstrate something, the ones we are talking about are already perfect: state of the art, best equipment, prestigious institutions, large team of long experienced testers, some of whom are on top of the CF/LENR field from the beginning, 30 years ago.


    The last month presentation at JFC20 (1) and the one presented at ICCF22 (2) include many slides in which a sequence of downward peaks in the TC4 curves are claimed to be caused by AHEs of nuclear origin. IMO, these peaks are more simply explained by the effect of the on-off cycling of the AC unit located just above the test apparatus (*).


    All the arguments, pros and cons, are on the web. Look at them carefully and draw your conclusions.


    (1) https://www.researchgate.net/p…_of_Nano-Metal_and_HD-Gas

    (2) https://www.researchgate.net/p…_of_Nano-Metal_and_HD-Gas

    (*) The NEDO Initiative - Japan's Cold Fusion Programme

  • Your considerations are quite reasonable. However, if the purpose of an experiment is to demonstrate something, the ones we are talking about are already perfect: state of the art, best equipment, prestigious institutions, large team of long experienced testers, some of whom are on top of the CF/LENR field from the beginning, 30 years ago.


    The long year forum's hot fusion (ITER) LENR troll simply outpours his vodka fantasies driven by the hope to stop LENR...




    This figure (runs 1,2) shows the TC4 fluctuations and here Takahashis comment:


    In Fig.4, we show temperature evolution data for the #1-2 burst event. Obviously, the behavior of TC4 is very strange with many oscillatory down-spikes. In our previous paper [8], we made speculation that the TC4 flat-and oscillatory evolution was due to transient local balance in endothermic H-absorption and desorption.

    However, it was wrong. From our succeeding experiments with CNZ7r and PNZ10r of re-calcined samples, we have reached the confirmation of “strong H(D)-gas turbulence effect” under locally strong AHE occurrence, which made drastic underestimation of excess thermal power by using data at TC1 and TC2, due to causing strong distortion of temperature distribution of the C-system.


    The inside reactor temperature is over 300C the outside 22C. This large fluctuation did confirm the local H*-H* condensation as it's range was 7 times larger than usual (see fig.7 run (3,4)).


  • The curves you posted derive from the row data shown in Figure 4 of the JCF19 paper (1).The TC4 fluctuation end at 18:30 in the evening when people went home and turned off the AC cooling.


    As for Figure 7 (2), the only thing it confirms is that anger makes you blind: the temperature scale is on the right side and the RTD_average value is about 350 °C, ie greater than the 300 °C you mentioned.


    (1) https://www.researchgate.net/p…_by_CNZ7_Sample_and_H-Gas

    (2) https://www.researchgate.net/p…-Metal_and_HD-Gas_revised

  • The curves you posted derive from the row data shown in Figure 4 of the JCF19 paper (1).The TC4 fluctuation end at 18:30 in the evening when people went home and turned off the AC cooling.


    One more fart... Try it with more Vodka...


    It stopped exactly at the end of the anomalous heat peak... How do you know when people head home...

  • One more fart... Try it with more Vodka...


    It stopped exactly at the end of the anomalous heat peak... How do you know when people head home...


    18:30 (6:30 pm) is a good time to go home after a working day started before 9 am. The sun also sets at around that time in Kobe on September 19, a Wednesday in 2018, and the temperature drops rapidly in the evening at that latitude: https://www.timeanddate.com/we…istoric?month=9&year=2018


    Do you want to revolutionize work habits and the sun cycle, in addition to nuclear physics?


    Prosit!

  • Prosit!

    Perhaps calculation can show how Ascolian AC can cause the huge oscillations in the TC4

    https://www.researchgate.net/p…origin=publication_detail


    and not in the other thermocouples


    calculations need to Include the mass of zirconia filler-439 gram

    the mass of the reactant.Cu1Ni7/zirconia . 1137 g

    the mass of the reactor shell---- kilograms

    inter alia


    vodka algebra or pics are not useful


    once these calculations are done..

    we can say 'Cheers' in seven ways

    and celebrate the Russian summer in January

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  • Yes but why jeopardise a good experimental study by over focusing on what may well turn out to be an irrelevant artefact? Quite simply the other tc's do not register any similar temperature oscillations so tc4 data is most likely spurious. Why they think this is due to active AHE sites is very strange because such large temperature changes would be detected by the other tc's. Maybe just over/misinterpreting the data?

  • Yes but why jeopardise a good experimental study by over focusing on what may well turn out to be an irrelevant artefact?


    I suggest Dr Richard reads the articles first.. carefully

    https://www.researchgate.net/p…origin=publication_detail

    https://www.researchgate.net/p…origin=publication_detail


    His considered opinion backed by calculations might be of interest to

    Akito Takahashi1,2*, Toyoshi Yokose3, Yutaka Mori3, Akira Taniike3, Yuichi Furuyama3, Hiroyuki Ido2, Atsushi Hattori2, Reiko Seto2, Atsushi Kamei2, Joji Hachisuka2

  • Abstract Latest results on anomalous heat effect (AHE) by interaction of binary nano-composite metal powders and H (or D) gas, after the NEDO-MHE project (2015-2017), are of subjective in this paper. PNZ10 (Pd1Ni10/zirconia) and CNZ7 (Cu1Ni7/zirconia) powders by melt-spun and calcination method were for AHE active material samples, and were re-used by additional calcination. 80 to 400 W/kg level excess thermal power Wex of sustainable continuity for several weeks have been reproducibly observed at elevated temperature around 300 °C, by using re-calcined PNZ-type samples with D-gas, significantly in net D-gas desorption mode. Specific reaction energy (η-value) per D-transferred was very large as 100 eV/D to over 500 eV/D. Very weak (0.1-0.2 n/J level) neutron emission looked correlating with the rise-up heat hump of thermal power after joule heating started. These results can be of the circumstantial nuclear signature of the AHE by the nano-metal D-gas interaction. Data of 50 to 140 W/kg level excess thermal power was repeatedly obtained by CNZ-type samples with H-gas at elevated temperatures after the saturation of H-gas absorption (endothermic) by sample. Excess thermal power of ca. 50 -70 W continued for more than two weeks by 505 g CNZ7r (re-calcined) sample, with very strange evolution of the "cooled-flat and oscillating" TC4 RC upper flange temperatures. The effect has been investigated, and we concluded as a kind of turbulence gas-flow of up- and down-stream by strong local AHE. Big or small heat bursts were observed many times in the rise-up data after the start of external heating from room temperature. The η-values were obtained to be so large as more than 10,000 eV/H-transfer for CNZ7r sample runs, implying some nuclear effect. Observation of AHE is repeatable by the interaction of H (or D) gas and Ni-based nano-composites metal powders. Reproducibility is established. Condition to realize the apparent equilibrium pressure with maximum dynamic H (or D) gas flux in both direction of desorption and sorption on surface of nano-composite metal particle is considered to be of key factor. Higher temperature than 300 °C for RC with homogeneous gas feed for eliminating the gas turbulence is to be tested.


    Key words: anomalous heat, enhancement, Ni-based, nano-composite-

  • Pointless exercise - what is there to calculate? TC 2 was positioned closest to TC 4 and registered no transient decreases in temperature. Another point - if these changes were caused by gas turbulence by nuclear events wouldn't you expect to see transient rises, not decreases in temperature?

  • Just to get this straight, are the TC4 oscillations postulated to be caused by a reaction elsewhere


    Reaction? here or over there? Not specifically postulated by Takahashi's team..

    Takahashi et al are still investigating "Turbulence"

    Considered suggestions will be welcomed I am sure..


    The hydrogen condensation a la Mills/Holmlid has been mooted on this thread..

    ~500 eV per condensation

    maybe there is a catalyst somewhere... zirconia? molybdenum?

  • Hmm. I would have thought that measurement of turbulence in H gas would need ms temperature resolution rather than hours

  • Hotspots of fusion activity have been reported in other systems so such burst like AHE activity is not unexpected in Takahashi' s reactor. I suggest what they are referring to is gas turbulence from local heating of gases close to these hotspots flowing towards TC 4, and could only increase the temperature. ZrO2 has actions as a dehydrogenation catalyst like KFeO2 so UDH presence is a likely initiator of fusion reactions in the CNZ nanoparticles.

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