Covid-19 News

    Quote from Fm1

    The New York Times tweeted that an internal CDC report said that the Delta variant “may be spread by vaccinated people as easily as the unvaccinated,” to which Wakana retweeted and wrote (in ALL CAPS, MIND YOU), “Vaccinated people do not transmit the virus at the same rate as unvaccinated people and if you fail to include that context you’re doing it wrong.”

    This NYT formulation is absolutely correct as the difference between vaccinated/unvaccinated seems to be lower than 30%. But this blows off the logic ( of the fascist terror approach) behind vaccine passport! The German government FM/R mafia won't like this...

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    The evidence that vaccination reduces transmission is compelling.

    This is the real problem. It's not with delta. RNA vaccines do not protect the mucosa as studies did show. Delta replicates 1000x stronger in your nose and thus during the spreading days there is not a significant difference. The only difference is that with a vaccination PCR significantly falls off day 3 and people in average carry the virus a shorter time. But this is not important for spreading in society because the maximum spreading is day 1 before symptoms (PCR!!!) ...


    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Truly depressing. Anti-vax dominance in 10 years.

    As Darwin said: The fools will die out. If not they are fitter.


    I think everybody would still vaxx for pox or Polio, Diphtherie the rest we can discuss.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    The LancetCOVID-19, cults, and the anti-vax movement

    Why do you link the top free mason anti CoV-19 drug trumpet.? Lancet by far is no longer a high impact journal. It's just made for mafia members only. It's the top fake the facts journal!



    But go on to fulfill you guardian in the "west" job. Nobody here will go and take a CoV-19 fake vaccine based on your spam ...

    Preventing vitamin D deficiency during the COVID-19 pandemic: UK definitions of vitamin D sufficiency and recommended supplement dose are set too low

    Preventing vitamin D deficiency during the COVID-19 pandemic: UK definitions of vitamin D sufficiency and recommended supplement dose are set too low
    There is growing evidence linking vitamin D deficiency with risk of COVID-19. It is therefore distressing that there is major disagreement about the optimal…
    www.rcpjournals.org


    Vitamin D may prevent COVID, especially in Black patients

    Vitamin D may prevent COVID, especially in Black patients
    Infection rate dropped 5% for every 1 ng/mL increase in Black patients with a vitamin D level of at least 30 ng/mL.
    www.cidrap.umn.edu


    The Impact of Vitamin D Level on COVID-19 Infection: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

    The Impact of Vitamin D Level on COVID-19 Infection: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
    Background: Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) is a respiratory and systemic disorder caused by Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or…
    www.frontiersin.org


    Impact of daily high dose oral vitamin D therapy on the inflammatory markers in patients with COVID 19 disease

    Impact of daily high dose oral vitamin D therapy on the inflammatory markers in patients with COVID 19 disease - Scientific Reports
    www.nature.com


    And the list just keeps growing....................

    Quote from Bob#2

    So no, there could very well be a problem.... however, this is another "framework" the government should use to "nudge" evil guns from law abiding citizens! All for the greater good.... as many would applaud!...

    Bob - I do think you are seeing this in a partial way here. I am sure you know the majority of gun deaths in the US (at 10 per 100,000 per year) are from handguns.


    You are also misunderstanding: the point about nudging people is that in that way you cannot take away rights - and those who still want guns - maybe those who still want to kills people even - can still do it.


    THH

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    This NYT formulation is absolutely correct as the difference between vaccinated/unvaccinated seems to be lower than 30%. But this blows off the logic ( of the fascist terror approach) behind vaccine passport! The German government FM/R mafia won't like this...

    This is a coherent - but wrong - argument from W.


    Easily seen as wrong.


    Assuming there is no difference in transmission between infected vaccinated and infected unvaccinated - it still remains true that vaccinated people are less likely to become infected.


    However it is true that with delta vaccinated people cannot be assumed 100% safe.


    Still - with everyone (or, say, everyone above age 30) vaccinated governments would not worry about superspreader events because the pressure on health systems would be manageable.


    Much as you may like to think it is governments in a sinister plan to crash the world economy (why?) or who care deeply for every individual's life, at the expense of great societal harm, in reality it is simpler:


    Wall-to-wall TV pictures of doctors speaking out, people on the street not being treated because there is insufficient capacity - these things are not politically manageable for democratic governments if there is any action they can take to prevent it.


    Then the issue about raging COVID infection rate is one for scientists, who know that will breed the next, more deadly, more vaccine evasive variant quicker than anything else. I doubt most politicians will pay attention to that.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Truly depressing. Anti-vax dominance in 10 years.


    Funny things people.


    Christians were a minority persecuted by the romans, they pleaded for tolerance to observe their faith.

    Bu when Christians became the main religion they then proceeded to persecute other groups.


    Vegans are a minority group that have asked for the freedom to be Vegan and for restaurants to cater to their requirements - fair enough.

    Now they form pressure groups to push for everyone else to be adopt Veganism and disrupt trade outside butchers' shops.


    Anti-vaxx people are a minority who wanted to be free not to have to accept vaccination. Again - fair enough.

    But again that is not enough. They use false information and propaganda to convert as many as possible to their agenda. Thus making it less likely that the vaccinated groups will reach herd immunity. Thus causing more people to die from Covid.


    Post truth and anti-science and intolerance.

    Maybe we have the answer to the Fermi paradox.

    Yes, the list keeps growing but most of it is irrelevant. Vit D correlates in subtle but strong ways with many different confounders that determine health, therefore retrospective and observational studies will usually give false positives, and are not reliable. We have seen that with claims for treatment of cancer etc where RCTs have told a different story.


    However, ultra-high-level Vit D as a treatment for COVID is an entirely different matter. Almost any immunomodulatory drug may do good or harm in that case, so it would not be surprising if Vit D did help. I therefore find your last link interesting as follows:


    (1) It shows Vit D has an important effect - whether, overall, the reduction in inflammatory markers is good or bad must be complex, but for medium-severe COVID we might hope they would be good. (Remember, inflammation comes from immune response, so a reduction it it can mean a reduction in immune response, which is why this is complex).


    (2) The evidence from mortality is lost in the noise here but still positive (2 vs 5 deaths).


    (3) This is not Vit D supplementation, nor would supplementation much - even at FM1 super-high levels - help much here. This takes 16ng/ml --> 90ng/ml. Whereas 33ng/ml at the start, if it does have immunosuppressant qualities, might do more harm than good. or, it might help, or more likely have no significant effect. This is an incredibly large Vit D burst supplementation as treatment for people who are ill.


    I am in favour (personally) of investigating all sorts of treatments that might be immunomodulatory. That can have an enormous good or bad effect on the course of the disease and also long-term outcomes. I think this evidence is positive, certainly enough to motivate further testing, but not yet clear. We do not yet know what effect these large physiological changes have on real outcomes, though this can give those like FM1 who want to hope reasonable hope.


    PS - in a sense this evidence is non-informative. We know Vit D suppresses inflammatory markers - it is not surprising that it did so in these patients. Now, the key question is whether this suppression results in better or worse outcomes - and evidence there is not strong in this study. It would be interesting, in a study like this, to follow up over 6 months and look for evidence of change in long-term symptoms as well.

    Quote from ZenoOfElea

    Anti-vaxx people are a minority who wanted to be free not to have to accept vaccination. Again - fair enough.

    But again that is not enough. They use false information and propaganda to convert as many as possible to their agenda. Thus making it less likely that the vaccinated groups will reach herd immunity. Thus causing more people to die from Covid.

    True of some. And as you say fair enough. Many anti-vaxx people have other motivations:

    (1) economic - they want to sell "beat COVID" supplements

    (2) anti-government - they have a political agenda as well

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    True of some. And as you say fair enough. Many anti-vaxx people have other motivations:

    (1) economic - they want to sell "beat COVID" supplements

    (2) anti-government - they have a political agenda as well

    Again we are back to the mirror effect that is common among children mind people. Accuse others of own deficits!

    1) Big VAX Pharma likes to steal as much taxpayers money as possible. Promoting drugs with no or even damaging value, ++ Tax evasion.

    2) Big Pharma is undermining governments, what is much worse than anti government. Big pharma is now a social virus, that silently kills our society. Why: Generic drugs - 98% of what we use - often are stopped in production to cheat the market. Useless new crap - not fitting patients need - at >10x prize is frequently offered.

    Quote from ZenoOfElea

    They use false information and propaganda to convert as many as possible to their agenda. Thus making it less likely that the vaccinated groups will reach herd immunity. Thus causing more people to die from Covid.

    Fools stay fools! What do you want to convert? Only an idiot takes an RNA (genetic) "vaccine".




    Here the ultimate biggest vaccine success in teh history of mankind:


    Most COVID-19 cases in Massachusetts outbreak among vaccinated, says CDC

    Most COVID-19 cases in Massachusetts outbreak among vaccinated, says CDC
    Three-quarters of people infected with COVID-19 at July public events in a town on Cape Cod in Massachusetts were fully vaccinated, a study by the U.S. Centers…
    www.reuters.com

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    But go on to fulfill you guardian in the "west" job. Nobody here will go and take a CoV-19 fake vaccine based on your spam ...

    On evidence here I am less politically engaged than you?


    I admit to getting angry at people who lie and deceive people - and being very motivated to point that out - but that is not a left-right or any other sort of political thing.


    I'm not, either, such a fan of democracy. It is probably the least worst alternative, but difficult to see that when pandemic response has been so chaotic. What I am a fan of it accountability and transparency - all of which you do not get in autocratic systems of government. If you stay in absolute power because you are a cult figure, and the people love you, you have very little accountability, and no-one to push the not pleasant but good in the long term transparency.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    1) Big VAX Pharma likes to steal as much taxpayers money as possible. Promoting drugs with no or even damaging value, ++ Tax evasion.

    2) Big Pharma is undermining governments, what is much worse than anti government. Big pharma is now a social virus, that silently kills our society. Why: Generic drugs - 98% of what we use - often are stopped in production to cheat the market. Useless new crap - not fitting patients need - at >10x prize is frequently offered.

    two things here:


    Vaccines have never been a big money-maker for pharma - and, for example, AstraZeneca is making no money out of their vaccine.


    I have seen no evidence of big pharma doing what you say. I admit to not being an expert - and would be happy to be educated by you. You will need to do better than just repeating this mantra. Re generic drugs, surely this is a balance? Pharma need to be funded and motivated to do new research (especially BTW on antibiotics). I'd rather we had some other system where governments put massive amounts of money into useful drug research - easy to see what that is - and then drugs were generic. Then effort would go on what is important rather than what makes money and is unimportant. We are not there. Till then it is clear that companies need to be motivated to spend $$$$ on research most of which never gets to market by making $$$$ of money on the ones that do.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    I fully agree 80'000'000'000$ from CoV-19 vaccines (according Bloomberg & Reuters) is small money.

    Ha. Even before the Cov-19 vaccine cash cow, a CNBC video from over two years ago presented the following information :


    Pfizer vaccine revenue 2018 : $6.3B Total revenue : $53.6B (Viagra, Lipitor, but Prenar13 has most revenue)


    Merck vaccine revenue 2018 : $7.2B Total revenue : $42.3B (makes Gardasil )

    Sanofi vaccine revenue 2018 : $5.9B Total revenue : $39.8B


    GlaxoSmithKline revenue 2018 : $7.5B Total revenue : $39.1B


    Revenue is rising twice as fast with vaccines than with drugs.

    Mark U - I'm sure you can find the equivalent figures for vaccine & non-vaccine profit? Which is what matters...


    All we see here is that 80% of pharma revenue does not come from vaccines...


    In any case what is it with vaccines?


    I don't see the same obsession with anti-depressants, or other things...

    Quote from Bob#2

    I am sure not so much in the UK, but in the US, over 6 million deer are harvested annually. Practically speaking, ALL are processed for food. Having been deer hunting almost my entire life, I fully know what is invovled...immediately after taking a deer, one "field dresses" it. Certainly not distancing!


    https://www.reference.com/pets…utomobiles%20every%20year.


    So no, there could very well be a problem...

    There would not be a problem in this scenario because the deer is dead. It is not going to catch COVID from you and then give it to the rest of the herd. You might get COVID from the dead deer, I suppose.


    The question here -- the thing that should bother us -- is: How did the deer get COVID in the first place? Presumably from humans. From garbage? That's unsettling. And: Why is it so widespread now? I guess one or two deer might have got it from garbage or from touching a person, and then it spread to the others. It seems odd that it would spread all over the lower 48 states, because deer do not travel or migrate much (I have heard), but I guess it went from one herd to the other.

    Here is bad news from Provincetown, MA. It is complicated, so read the whole article. The data from this superspreader event is one of the things that caused the CDC to revise their mask recommendations. I think the previous recommendations were correct for earlier forms of COVID, but not for Delta variant.


    ‘It’s Nowhere Near Over’: A Beach Town’s Gust of Freedom, Then a U-turn
    Provincetown, Mass., the quirky community at the tip of Cape Cod, thought it was safe to return to prepandemic partying. It wasn’t.
    www.nytimes.com


    ‘It’s Nowhere Near Over’: A Beach Town’s Gust of Freedom, Then a U-turn

    Provincetown, Mass., the quirky community at the tip of Cape Cod, thought it was safe to return to prepandemic partying. It wasn’t.


    QUOTES:


    ". . . From the 965 cases that scientists have traced to gatherings in Provincetown, among them 238 residents, scientists have drawn important conclusions about the Delta variant of the coronavirus, which has helped drive a rise in hospitalizations across the country, mostly among the unvaccinated.


    The good news is that people infected in Provincetown, about three-quarters of whom were fully vaccinated, were, for the most part, not seriously ill; no deaths were reported, and only seven people were hospitalized. The bad news is that the variant is extraordinarily contagious — as contagious as chickenpox, the C.D.C. said — and people with so-called breakthrough infections may spread the virus to others. . . ."




    Many people are upset with CDC because they keep changing their recommendations. Those people do not understand the science. The recommendations are changing because the physical facts and the virus itself is changing. You wouldn't want public health authorities to ignore the fact that the Delta variant is far more contagious. Here is an example of misplaced anger at the CDC, and an accusation that they are "sowing doubt:"


    Michael Ramirez by Michael Ramirez for July 29, 2021 | GoComics.com
    www.gocomics.com


    This cartoonist is right-wing, but not anti-vax:


    Michael Ramirez by Michael Ramirez for July 30, 2021 | GoComics.com
    www.gocomics.com


    In a sense, this whole debate about people's right to refuse vaccines, and the absurd arguments against vaccines here and elsewhere are caused by the fact that COVID is relatively mild. It is a luxury we can afford because the stakes are relatively low. It is nowhere near as bad as the 1918 influenza, for example. If a more dangerous and virulent form of COVID emerged, this nonsense about people's right to refuse vaccinations would vanish overnight. Suppose it started killing 5% or 10% of infected people, especially children, and it was obviously going to kill tens of millions. The government would order everyone to be vaccinated right away. The Supreme Court said the government can do this in 1905, and I do not think that legal judgement has changed.


    If that happened, I expect even the members of the Death Cult here would get vaccinated. (I expect most of the GOP Death Cult members at Fox News and in Congress have been vaccinated already.)

    The people here who are pushing big pharma makes money from vaccines are being political. The issue is, for COVID, what are the overall risks of vaccination vs non-vaccination:


    • Immediate personal risks: the evidence is so clear that vaccines save lives, and reduce long-term problems, I don't think even Navid & Mark U can contest it.
    • Long-term personal risks: the evidence here is clear as well. But anti-vaxxers ignore the known unknown long-term rsisk from COVID (that is - we know they are large - but don't know how large) and make up long-term risks for vaccines that have never been seen and would be highly surprising. Most of the risk mechanisms are the same in teh two cases - just much worse for COVID.
    • Societal risks: I guess many would reckon these are irrelevant. They'd be wrong. Having high COVID rates increases chances of fitter variants coming along. These may be deadlier, and may spread faster, and will over time evade natural immunity from previous variants. That affects everyone. Then there are the little matters of other people dying, and closed down economies (tourism at very least goes on suffering).

    I don't hear anything coherent from the anti-vaxxers here about this balance of risks. For those who have political agendas I guess it does not matter much - but for many others it does.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    Fools stay fools! What do you want to convert? Only an idiot takes an RNA (genetic) "vaccine".

    Wyttenbach - you are a very smart person, way smarter than me. So why would you not stay silent and let all the fools get vaccinated so that herd immuniity is reached - then you are a safe?

    Not very logical to tell others not to get vaccinated.


    In any case the future of vaccines are RNA vaccines, that is a fact.


    As a vaccinated fool, who is making the world safer for everyone, what I would like to say to you is;


    "You're welcome".

    Dear all,


    You may be surprised by what I've got to say now - it may seem contrary to what I've been posting here. That won't stop me. I've always said I would post both sides of every issue.


    Looking at the research literature, I have discovered that in recent months there is a novel RNA-based genetic illness currently affecting many people in the UK whose long-term effects are not understood and I believe have been underestimated by authorities. This is completely knew. We have no idea how to fight it and don't even understand what it does. We do know that initially tiny amounts of RNA infiltrate cells throughout the body, multiply, and cause harm. It spreads and is present in testes and ovaries and the brain. It is known to cause long term brain degradation. We do not know whether it can change our genes, although most scientists say no. The short-term consequences, for those unfortunates who suffer, are appalling, in many cases leading to death. It was worrying because this is a genetic disease that can multiply (and variegate) inside the body. It can literally control any cell in your body and it is so serious because it inactivates the bodies own early warning defences. It can "shed" RNA that might affect other people, including pregnant women. It seems to be getting worse over time. We have no idea what the long-term consequences are for affected people, but evidence is that for many they are severe.


    The UK government is recommending that young people now get together under conditions medically assured to spread this new illness as fast as possible (called nightclubs). Is this a sinister plan by the government to leave much of the country mentally incontinent and unable to resist its increasingly authoritarian actions?


    All these long-term effects - and the political implications - are definitely not things your doctor tells you about - but you should all be aware.

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