Quote from Alan Smith

Big Pharma obviously won't support the idea of a vaccine that is distributed free of charge around the world . . .

I object to this whole notion that Big Pharma will oppose this or that new drug. This kind of thing has often been expressed here lately. I wish people would think about it, and stop saying this. Big Pharma is NOT opposed to curing diseases. Even eradicating them, the way smallpox was eradicated. Smallpox vaccine sales fell to zero. Big Pharma does not miss the profit it used to make selling smallpox vaccines. Why? Because there are any number of other diseases. It is not like we are running out of dire illnesses. Big Pharma will have its work cut out for it for centuries to come.

Big Pharma is not opposed to something like an influenza vaccine that targets all species, and prevents all forms, unlike today's version that only targets 3 forms. Suppose this version cost less. Or suppose you only needed this vaccine once every 10 years. That would reduce overall sales by a factor of 10. A pharma company wouldn't care, because -- as I said -- there are plenty of other diseases, and because more people would get the new vaccination. If company A develops that vaccine, it would sell like hotcakes even if overall sales of flu vaccines falls by a factor of 10. Their competitors would lose business. Believe me, it never bothers people at company A to see that companies B, C and D have lost nearly all their business.

GE and other light bulb makers were not opposed to making CFL and later LED lights. They knew those bulbs last so long that overall sales would fall even though the bulbs were more expensive. Okay, there may have been some stupid managers in these companies who opposed the development of these new types because they would cannibalize sales. But most of them knew that if GE did not develop an LED, Siemens would.

The other absurd idea bandied about here is that Big Pharma does not care if patients are harmed. As I said before, they would be destroyed by a class action lawsuit. More to the point, it is never good business to kill off your customers. Unless you are selling highly addictive cigarettes or opium, your customers will go to your competitors. Most of the execs, salespeople and workers at big pharma are ordinary people. Upstanding citizens with an ordinary sense of morality. They do not want to kill other people. There are exceptions. Purdue Pharma made tremendous amounts of money selling OxyContin, continuing long after they realized it was dangerous. Those people really are as bad as the worst portrayals of "Big Pharma" described here. You can always find companies, political parties, websites and other institutions run by sociopaths. See:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/

Quote from Navid

100% falsehood. The main vector of polio incidence in the world - now- is from vaccination.

There are a few hundred cases from vaccines, and they could easily all be eliminated with proper medical procedures and sufficient vaccine supplies.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/v…rived-poliovirus-faq.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/g…-in-vaccine-derived-cases

Note: This is real information from a legitimate source. Not your kind of made-up bullshit.

I posted this information here before. Either you did not read it, you do not understand it, or you are deliberately confusing the issue to promote your lunatic anti-science cult of death. I think you should take your ideas elsewhere. You want to promote mass murder for some reason. Go for it, but not here.

I think I should stop responding to your trolling.

Quote from JedRothwell

I posted this information here before. Either you did not read it, you do not understand it, or you are deliberately confusing the issue to promote your lunatic anti-science cult of death. I think you should take your ideas elsewhere.

There is only one bull-shit talker on this forum. Just today's in the news they announced a more safe polio vaccine is in development. The few 100 vaccine polio cases are may be for the USA only. In other places Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria there are some 10'000!

Quote from JedRothwell

Yeah, sure. Go ahead and kill yourself if you want. Jump off a bridge. Drink yourself to death.

Did you read the paper about cross immunity?? May be reading is a burden for you...

81% of the people show a strong response to CoV-19 based on former multiple corona infections. Why should all these people get a vaccination?? further children according German research can handle CoV-19 easily. There are only very rare cases with a more severe outcome what is some more pains only...

I fully understand that the older folks like to live in absolute security and consequently wish that 98% of the people risk their health for them.

And once more then I let you dream of vaccine again:

There is no CoV-19 vaccine! There are many candidates (>30). But as the paper above did show a single antibody expression after a vaccination is highly likely not a full protection. The virus clearance is much better if a set of antibodies is generated that attacks multiple sites of the virus. If you would have read the papers you would also know why!

I will only accept a vaccine that has run through the full test cycle that normally lasts 4 years in the best case so far 2 years.

And last: Could you believe that US citizens may be are victims of an over vaccination ??

Quote from Navid

100% falsehood. The main vector of polio incidence in the world - now- is from vaccination. Based on statistics we have, vaccination was never a slam dunk in terms of a win (at least now how it actually happened) Polio was eracidated because of nutrition, sanitation (including chlorine in pools in US), wealth, and less toxification (DDT induced polio incidence in US last century). If we made toilets in the Philippines/India and stopped using OPV we would have less polio today and truly be polio free.

Navid, perhaps you'd like to engage with me in justifying your unsupported comments.

For example, have you read the literature on NPEVs (non-polio entero-viruses)? Vaccination does not distribute Polio, although it is true that BECAUSE OF vaccination, polio rates everywhere are so low that other things, NPEVs, adverse reactions to polio vaccine, become noticeable. Polio is a very safe vaccine, but like everything it has some risk:

https://vaccine-safety-trainin…olio-vaccine-example.html

VAPP risk: 2-4 / million

However, in countries where there are no longer cases of wild polio, VAPP can become a greater risk than wild polio. In many countries where wild polio has been eliminated, programmes have switched to using inactivated (killed) polio vaccine (IPV), a more expensive vaccine that does not carry the risk of VAPP, but must be injected by a trained health worker.

Your idea that Polio vaccination is not the reason for the dramatic fall in Polio rates is just plain silly.

The UK had good nutrition, sanitation, but high Polio rates till vaccination.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/polio/

Cases of polio in the UK fell dramatically when routine vaccination was introduced in the mid-1950s.

There hasn't been a case of polio caught in the UK since the mid-80s. But the infection is still found in some parts of the world, and there remains a very small risk it could be brought back to the UK.

THH

Quote from Wyttenbach

And last: Could you believe that US citizens may be are victims of an over vaccination ??

I can believe anything with evidence: I've thus far seen no strong evidence for that. But, I'm sure it can be put forward as a hypothesis and I'd like to heat the evidence (rather than Wyttenfacts) that support it.

Quote from Wyttenbach

But as the paper above did show a single antibody expression after a vaccination is highly likely not a full protection.

Well, every other expert disagrees. Maybe your expert is right and the others are wrong, but I wouldn't bet on that. That seldom happens.

This is not like cold fusion in which people who claim to be experts say it is a mistake. Those people know nothing about it so they are not actually experts. In the case of vaccine development, you have thousands of bonafide experts working on it. People who have developed vaccines before, working at some of best labs in the world. They say a vaccine will probably offer full protection. You have come up with a guy who says no. Without knowing the details of the science I think it is unlikely all those other people are wrong, and your guy is right.

I also believe you are wrong because just about everything else you have said about this subject has been wrong.

Quote from Alan Smith

I think they will dislike this idea for the same reason that Westinghouse hated the idea that Tesla's wireless power could not be metered.

If Tesla had succeeded, I am sure they would have soon found a way to meter it. I doubt Westinghouse would have opposed it for long.

(I think it would have been dangerous, so I would have opposed it, but that is another story.)

Companies sometimes oppose things that are not in their interest. I am not saying this never happens. Most mainframe companies and all minicomputer companies went out of business because the managers were opposed to microcomputers, and later to the IBM PC standard. I was working for one of them and I saw it happen. (I got out, quickly.) However, companies that survive only do so by reconciling themselves to the new technology, and making the best of it. Many of them succeed.

The entire coal industry is fiercely opposed to wind turbines. When wind power began to make inroads into the coal market in the 1990s, their representative in Congress (D-WV) tried to pass a law outlawing wind turbines. That was a futile gesture, but I suppose he was trying to earn his bribe. They also oppose global warming research, and they have set up various bogus organizations to dispute it, and spread lies about it. The coal industry also opposes natural gas, but they know that business is too big for them to crush, so they have not tried to stop it as far as I know.

However, the opposition of coal to wind power is nothing like the (hypothetical) opposition from Big Pharma to an effective new drug. Consider this imaginary situation: Someone from outside the pharma industry, a Mr. Myrddin Wyllt of Carlisle, UK, invents a magic panacea that cures all diseases. Everything from obesity to cancer to the common cold. His company begins to put every pharma manufacturer on earth out of business. In this situation, Big Pharma would oppose him. So would little pharma, and so would every doctor, hospital and medical establishment on earth. It is one thing to cure one disease with one particular vaccine. That leaves all the other diseases to be cured. As I said, we are not running out of dire illnesses. The situation where one disease is cured by one vaccine resembles the situation in software in which high priced operating systems from IBM and AT&T were put out of business by Microsoft Windows and Linux. There were plenty of other software products for IBM to develop. They may not have liked Linux, but they were sensible enough to live with it and forge ahead in other areas. The medical establishment would try to stop Mr. Wyllt because he would destroy the entire medical establishment, just as wind will inevitably destroy the entire coal industry. He would not leave large chunks of business on the table, in a market that will expand for hundreds of years.

In a few decades there will be no market for coal, so the industry is doing all it can to prevent progress and turn back the clock. This is futile. But this is how doomed, obsolete industries usually react. One or two good vaccines, or a cure for influenza or the common cold would not doom Big Pharma. Not the way wind turbines will wipe out coal.

Quote from JedRothwell

If this were 1963, the government would order everyone to get it, and everyone would line up and be vaccinated. That is what happened when the oral polio vaccine was developed.

I remember having to get the vaccine (on a sugar cube) when my family drove from OK to TX. You took it or they turned you around.

Quote from oldguy

I remember having to get the vaccine (on a sugar cube)

I remember it too. I was expecting a shot. I got to the front of the line and they gave me a sugar cube. I thought, "this isn't bad!" Everyone was in the line, including my parents and all the other adults.

Some notorious all mighty nonsense talkers here regularly post that polio vaccination does not lead to polio.

I recommend to carefully read the history of polio : https://ourworldindata.org/polio

At the end you find the sad truth about the current polio vaccine (virus can mutate again and regains its strength). But as said the next one will contain a really weakened virus.

The same nonsense talkers ignore also the fact that about 80% of the people have a decent immune protection against CoV-19 and will not need any vaccine! The paper linked by Epimetheus shows that also 10 year old blood samples are effectively fighting CoV-19!

Without this old immunity about 10-15% of all people world wide would already be dead! Just for the ones that still can use the numbers...

A discrimination of people that obviously don't need a vaccine in favor of some with a forced mutated (vaccinated) immune defense is racism. For the same reason gen tests are under fire because there is a huge potential of miss use.

I herewith ask the forum members & admin to stop allowing people to post such incredible dirt.

Italian report of successful HCQ treatments

Drbeen Medical Lectures: A Flurry of Intriguing News

Use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised COVID-19 patients is associated with

reduced mortality: Findings from the observational multicentre Italian CORIST study

https://www.ejinme.com/article…-6205(20)30335-6/fulltext

Successful HCQ treatment in the Netherlands stopped by bureacrats

Covid And the drug that dare not speak its name

Sky News Australia - Potential coronavirus treatments are being 'patronisingly dismissed'

Clinical testing underway in Calif. for Ivermectin

IVERMECTIN IN TREATMENT OF COVID-19: INTERVIEW WITH INTERNIST DR. JUAN SUAREZ

https://www.bitchute.com/video/x86U3r8eyaUO/

Ben Carson, MD, says hydroxychloroquine studies don't look at asymptomatic covid-19 patients

https://www.washingtonpost.com…c-ada11de5caea_video.html

Quote from Wyttenbach

The same nonsense talkers ignore also the fact that about 80% of the people have a decent immune protection against CoV-19 and will not need any vaccine! The paper linked by Epimetheusshows that also 10 year old blood samples are effectively fighting CoV-19!

Without this old immunity about 10-15% of all people world wide would already be dead! Just for the ones that still can use the numbers...

The issue here is whether you have evidence that vaccines DONT provide such cross-immunity. I agree, it is a potential disadvantage of some vaccines. However it is an advantage of others, where 100% vaccination gives more people potential cross-immunity.

Another issue with this argument is that cross-immunity cuts both ways. near miss antibodies can actually make the immune response less effective because they prevent the formation of more exact antibodies. So while epithemeus's link is thought provoking, the thoughts provoked are not the ones you suppose.

Finally, it looks as though cross-immunity will help with COVID - and the corona viruses responsible have never had vaccines - and would never have them, so this particular example is fortuitous.

Here an example how the daily manipulation of the public works:

Switzerland has increased CoV-19 tests from 45'000 to 60'000 last week. Result: The number of corona cases did increase by 18%/week but in reality relative to the old test regime the number of cases is declining! This was made to enforce people wearing masks... The overall mortality is now at 0.5/day or slightly above 0.16% for the detected cases. With respect to the 10x undetected ones we are now at 0.015% now what is below flu. But our idiots force us to wear masks in shops that provably make things worse, due to the fact that the main danger are aerosols, in internally air circulating rooms, that still pass the masks.

The problem is that sick people do believe that with a mask they can do no harm!

German link!

https://www.srf.ch/news/schwei…meldet-361-neuinfektionen

Important, peer-reviewed science here.

https://www.researchgate.net/p…92851cd302f81f7a/download

Quote from Shane D.

That has to be a joke?

You decide. It certainly stands on a par with much that is posted here.

Quote from Shane D.

That has to be a joke?

On par with Rossi's paper on Research Gage!

This may even pass his number of reads!

Quote from Wyttenbach

Some notorious all mighty nonsense talkers here regularly post that polio vaccination does not lead to polio.

Nope. No one said that. It is common knowledge that some cases of polio are caused by the vaccine. This is discussed in the CDC document I linked to:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/v…rived-poliovirus-faq.html

These cases can easily be prevented.

You just made that up. No one says what you claim we say. Anyone can see you made that up. Who are you trying to fool?

Yale epidemiologist Dr. Harvey Risch interview (Aug 27)

- discusses efficacy of HCQ and the politics and motives of the opponents

Dr.Harvey Risch on HCQ to treat COVID-19 (Chicago radio)