You can believe outspoken mavericks who think they know better than others, or the hard facts:

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2020.05.14.20101774v3

Abstract Background Hydroxychloroquine is being administered among patients with COVID 19 infection in many healthcare systems across the world, considering its in vitro effect against the SARS CoV 2 virus. In spite of several observational studies and a few randomized controlled trials, the effect of hydroxychloroquine on patients with COVID 19 infection remains unclear. We undertook this systematic review with meta-analysis to evaluate the efficacy and safety of hydroxychloroquine among patients with COVID 19 infection.

Conclusions Our meta analysis does not suggest improvement in mortality, clinical progression, or negative conversion by RT PCR among patients with COVID-19 infection who are treated with hydroxychloroquine. There was a significantly higher incidence of adverse events with hydroxychloroquine use.

I listen here for evidence contradicting this type of meta-study - taking all the published studies that have controls and looking at all they say.

• I note that few studies have very early administering of HCQ. That might (possibly) work better. But that is not the point - many anti-virals would work better if given earlier but people go to hospital after they have symptoms. So early usage is not normally possible, and therefore less interesting.
• I note that HCQ might (possibly) work as a prophylatic. The evidence is weak - but worth following up. Don't see this as a miracle, just like vaccines, prophylatics need to be very very safe because they are given mostly to people who do not need them.
• Please do not take might (possibly) work better as "it works better". It might work worse, since it stays in the system and influences immune response in ways that interact with the cytokine storm in ways not clearly understood.
• The youtube PR is not reliable - and if you think it is you are misunderstanding science.
• I'd hope that people here could adopt a reflective and measured view of all these political controversies.

There are many other exciting advances in COVID understanding and treatment - why stick on HCQ?

Didier :

Nullane salus extra ecclesiam

. Such an approach—almost empirical but pragmatic—

is likely to be considered highly blasphemous

by those believing that there is no salvation outside the RCT church, whatever the context.

"Our group conducted such an analysis using aggregated data from published studies matched with our own observational data showing that individuals treated with a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin were three times less likely to die than matched patients treated with either lopinavir-ritonavir or standard care.

Compared with patients included in a remdesivir study, we also showed a significant difference

in the clinical outcome (proportion of cured individuals with negative viral load)

in favour of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin [11].

https://www.sciencedirect.com/…cle/pii/S2052297520300664

Quote from THHuxleynew

You can believe outspoken mavericks who think they know better than others, or the hard facts:

- why stick on HCQ?

Yes. Who could possibly believe mavericks like Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann?

The hard facts produced by Academia refuted their claims decisively.

Very likely many antivirals are effective.

For those that have long histories showing relative safety, should a physician

and individual be able choose a treatment, without bureaucratic autocratic interference?

But, maybe not.

After all, cases of government and corporate malfeasance or deception

are so very rare that their policies should be followed without question.

Interview of Dr. V.Zelenko (Aug 27)

Recomended protocol for Covid onset from clinic in Goa(India)

Inhalers, nutrients, antivirals

TIPS TO SURVIVE COVID-19

Egyptian University reports successful prophylaxis with ivermectin --

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2…/NCT04422561?view=results

Italian retrospective HCQ treatment study August 25

https://www.ejinme.com/article…-6205(20)30335-6/fulltext

"In a retrospective observational study, 3,451 unselected patients hospitalized in 33 clinical centers in Italy, from February 19, 2020 to May 23, 2020, with laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, were analyzed.

The primary end-point in a time-to event analysis was in-hospital death

"Our study, including a large real life sample of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 all over Italy, shows that HCQ use (200 mg twice/day) was associated with a 30% reduction of overall in-hospital mortality.

In the absence of clear-cut results from controlled, randomized clinical trials, our data do not discourage the use of HCQ in inpatients with COVID-19. Given the observational design of our study, however, these results should be transferred with caution to clinical practice.

Are Australian authoritarians causing unnecessary Covid deaths?

Why are Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin banned as COVID-19 treatments?

- Cites a raft of new positive studies

- Leftists went crazy after Donald Trump's remarks

Trial Site News on successful ivermectin trial in Egypt

Zagazig University Randomized Controlled Ivermectin Study Results

Confirms PI Hypothesis: Drug Effective Against COVID-19

Excerpt: "The drug has already been in wide use in low-to middle-income countries for

tropical parasites for decades. Regulatory authorities and national research units

should at least be open to reviewing the data, rather than exhibiting indifference."

https://www.trialsitenews.com/…fective-against-covid-19/

Dystopian "New Normal" arrives via Covid-19

We Must Not Fear

Peak Prosperity's latest video -

Scientific Integrity: A Major Casualty Of Covid-19

- Reviews antivirals

- Egregious flaws in "peer reviewed" "UK Recovery Study"

Hydroxychloroquine, evidence of efficacy

Quote from Lou Pagnucco

We Must Not Fear

What an idiot notion. Of course we should fear! People in my demographic especially should fear. If you don't fear, you don't take proper precautions.

This reminds me of what happens when a hurricane approaches Florida. There are always people who refuse to evacuate. They say, "I sat out the last one, and I was fine." A local sheriff knows how to deal with them. He says: "Okay, but do me a favor. Here is permanent marker sharpie. Write your Social Security Number on your thigh so we can identify the body." That puts the fear of God into them.

It is not worth your life to avoid driving 100 miles inland before a hurricane. It is not worth your life to skip putting on a mask, or to go bowling, or go to a bar. Drink at home, for goodness sake.

This video is pure BS. Even the Trump White House directives disagree with it.

Quote from Alan Smith

people without symptoms may not need a test – even if they’ve been exposed to the coronavirus

This is quite extraordinary: I'm not quite sure why CDC would cave to what (presumably) is political pressure in this way. Maybe the whole US system is so chaotic they don't have enough tests and are making the best of it? But it does not feel that way.

The whole point about test and trace is that you identify and isolate the not-yet-symptomatic spreaders before the spread - which typically peaks during the two or three days before symptoms develop.

Quote from Lou Pagnucco

Dystopian "New Normal" arrives via Covid-19

We Must Not Fear

I actually think it is too much fear - of an imaginary secret elite cabal that is controls governments and is seeking to enslave citizens - that is problem here. Fear that those who make these interminable and political Youtube videos have.

Taking sensible precautions to protect oneself or the elder people in one's society is not about fear, and what any right thinking moral person would do.

Second wave after reopening already running out!

https://github.com/openZH/covi…ahlen_Kanton_ZH_total.csv

Currently we have 1 death/week (among 1.4mio people) albeit the cases did increase 10x. Also ICU/hospitalizations are going down.

Main reason: More younger get infected with more or less no symptoms but tested due to super spreader events.

Now the most important task is to early identify super spreaders - not an easy job. The main risk of wearing masks here is given by the careless ones going to work/use train despite having some symptoms and falsely believe that a mask protects the others. Most cotton fabric masks let almost all aerosols pass (German test). Other risks are self infections as a mask is a culture media for fungus & bacteria.

Quote from Wyttenbach

The main risk of wearing masks here is given by the careless ones going to work/use train despite having some symptoms and falsely believe that a mask protects the others. Most cotton fabric masks let almost all aerosols pass (German test). Other risks are self infections as a mask is a culture media for fungus & bacteria.

My theory is that when very young you were traumatised by superhero films hence this phobia about masks.

On the subject of the supposed secret elite who want to control people with chips, here is a master plan to control pigs with chips! Keep your tin foil hats handy!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53956683

Here children below age 12 do not have to wear masks as obvioulsy these are not at risk.

In Switzerland we have an estimated 2-3000 deaths/year due to hospital errors/failures. Currently if you are infected tehn you should avoid a hospital as the base risk is 10x higher than dying of CoV-19...

Also soap slipping (> 200 deaths/year) is now on par with CoV-19...

If you don't like all these risks eat your mask ....

Quote from THHuxleynew

My theory is that when very young you were traumatised by superhero films hence this phobia about masks.

I shake my head when I see likes for stuff like this. It is consistent mental trash. Even Professors speak mental trash.

Human beings essence is in their face. So covering the face is shaming. This construction of words may be meaningless and cause some to "hee haw" and glibly mock the very concept. You are mocking and doing damage to yourself.

There are deep psychological layers to everything, since we aren't just material creatures. Engaging in masking or any ritual causes the human being to participate in the ideology of the authority. It is compliance plain and simple. Even a salesman knows get someone to agree to something small, and then they will agree to much larger things. Time for a shot in the arm, line up. They can't start there.

As soon as you start putting on masks, the people who are not masking become "the others. People start making assumptions about them. Are they "in" or are they "out"? That is how you crush opposition - even doctors who talk about HCQ working are crazies because they "deny masks."

It happens to me to - and yes I wear masks but at least I know they are ritualistic devices. It takes enormous strength to know the truth and not zone out into "don't care mode". The goal is inter-group division. And of course, state power will be used to enforce the ritualistic device.

Quote from Navid

Human beings essence is in their face. So covering the face is shaming.

It's probably cultural and not genetic, but far east Asians focus on the eyes rather than the whole face for social cues.

(Caucasians use the entire face.) This may be in part why Asians seem more comfortable wearing masks. Perhaps THH is Asian?

https://www.newscientist.com/a…ressions-arent-universal/

For myself, I don't like masks for a variety of reasons. One good thing though, I have had to learn to deliberately smile through my eyes in an indoor public place.

Upon leaving a public building, I ( like most others I observe in Toronto) grab the mask and promptly remove the offensive thing.

Quote from THHuxleynew

On the subject of the supposed secret elite who want to control people with chips, here is a master plan to control pigs with chips! Keep your tin foil hats handy!

There was a long article about this in the New York Times.

The Brain Implants That Could Change Humanity

Brains are talking to computers, and computers to brains. Are our daydreams safe?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0…ificial-intelligence.html

Quote from THHuxleynew

I actually think it is too much fear - of an imaginary secret elite cabal that is controls governments and is seeking to enslave citizens - that is problem here. Fear that those who make these interminable and political Youtube videos have.

Sure. The authoritarians are hardly secret. The "elite" just imposed their will in Berlin.

(Sorry, another one of the interminable and political Youtube videos) --

Regime Ends Protests in Berlin by Force

Also, weren't you recently defending the "Recovery Trial" based on trust of academic "elites"?

Certainly it wasn't a "cabal" designing a study certain to provide negative results, but, if time

permits, it would be reassuring to have you refute the claims in the latest Peak Properity video

on the Recovery Trial, or those in the following video -

Hydroxychloroquine, evidence of efficacy

Also, on a more humourful note, it appear Covid has damaged many UK brains

(from RT, so probably another Russian plot) --

UK: Thousands take to London's Trafalgar Square to protest COVID-related measures

Most people here in Switzerland will for sure not take a CoV-19 vaccination. I's nuts to get vaccine for something 81% of the people are almost immune.

This game will only turn if long time damage will affect everybody, what is highly unlikely, but who can predict nature?

Quote from Lou Pagnucco

Sure. The authoritarians are hardly secret. The "elite" just imposed their will in Berlin.

There is no elite. There are people in power with vastly below average intelligence. Also doctors are mostly among the less talented college finishers.

So we just follow the stupids.