They say it is very bad . Ottawans are 'strapped to the covid rocket'
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/we-r…ottawa-s-sewage-1.5145059
Will see soon sice alleged lag is 3-4 days. Wondering if there will be coverage if it turns out we were strapped to something else but the rocket.
Prior exposure to common coronaviruses reduces COVID-19 severity --
Less severe course of COVID-19 is associated with elevated levels of antibodies against seasonal human coronaviruses OC43 and HKU1 (HCoV OC43, HCoV HKU1)
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2020.10.12.20211599v1
An inexpensive quickly available alternative to COVID-19 vaccines?
hey stop giving good ideas, how are we supposed to make millions off a vaccine if you get herd immunity too soon? much better locking our slaves up and tanking GDP.
The White House has apparently endorsed a plan to allow herd immunity in the U.S., described in the Great Barrington Declaration:
I think this is insane, for several reasons, such as:
Prof. Jeffrey Sachs describes some other reasons why this is a bad idea:
People should PLEASE get a flu vaccine. Now. It takes a couple of weeks to confer immunity. If you get the flu this will lower your resistance to COVID-19, plus the two of them together are more serious and dangerous than just having one.
I also recommend a pneumonia vaccine. This prevents bacterial pneumonia, and also meningitis and bacteremia. See:
https://www.cdc.gov/features/adult-pneumococcal/index.html
A message for anti-vaxxers here and elsewhere in the world who say you should not get a flu shot, or a COVID-19 shot: You people are a bunch of mass murderers. You will kill millions, and impose a lifetime of suffering on millions more. You are no better than Nazis, even though of course you have no malicious intent. As Margaret Atwood put it, "Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results."
They say it is very bad . Ottawans are 'strapped to the covid rocket'
They are testing sewage water. This is known as wastewater epidemiology. This is a really good technique. It is also be used to detect things like drug addiction. See:
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.11022
The beauty of this is that you do not need any patient to cooperate or give permission. Plus the results come in real time. A technique that does not need the cooperation or even knowledge of the population being studied can be a tremendous help in social science. Charles Babbage described this kind of technique it his book, "The Economy of Machinery and Manufacturers" (1832):
"In filling up the answers which require numbers [in surveys], some care should be taken: for instance, if the observer stands with his watch in his hand before a person heading a pin, the workman will almost certainly increase his speed, and the estimate will be too large. A much better average will result from enquiring what quantity is considered a fair day's work. When this cannot be ascertained, the number of operations performed in a given time may frequently be counted when the workman is quite unconscious that any person is observing him. Thus the sound made by the motion of a loom may enable the observer to count the number of strokes per minute, even though he is outside the building in which it is contained."
A message for anti-vaxxers here elsewhere in the world who say you should not get a flu shot, or a COVID-19 shot: You people are a bunch of mass murderers.
You mix to many drinks into your reasoning. May be you should once read the New York Times article about the coming CoV-19 vaccine for getting at least a glimpse of the real problem of a new vaccine.
Flu vaccines usually give a mediocre protection and are only recommend for potential victims. Only idiots without free will (yes!!) can self endanger their live with a flue vaccine that is not tested at all.
Australia had no (1/6 of normal season) flue seasons as also the USA will have no real flue season because CoV-19 already killed the most vulnerable.
You have to come down the palm tree and should restart to enjoy live. Take 3000ICU V-D/day for two weeks and have bitter orange juice ready! Then you wont get a severe infection.
As said we have 100x more cases than after lock down. But no change in ICU cases. Of course the fraction of old folks age > 80 (30x increase in cases) usually dies silently...This is what we see.
Flu vaccines usually give a mediocre protection and are only recommend for potential victims.
Yes, but everyone is a potential victim.
Yes, but everyone is a potential victim.
As said we have 100x more cases than after lock down. But no change in ICU cases. Of course the fraction of old folks age > 80 (30x increase in cases) usually dies silently...This is what we see.
That is why I see how data from sewage can potentially prove this point. In Ottawa virus traces in sewage show x10 spike compared to June. Now we need to compare ICU numbers. The ICU number technically had seen 9 fold increase form 1 through the Summer to currently 9 people.
As a kind of social thought experiment.
I would be interested to know, for those who would avoid a Covid vaccine or a flu vaccine, for a possible future pandemic, what the CFR would need to be before you would take the vaccine?
For the sake of argument, and to avoid nit picking, assume that the fantasy vaccine is of a similar safety profile to the flue vaccine and the fantasy virus is about as infectious as flu.
So CFR = 10%, 20%, 50%, 80% is there a point at which you would consider taking the vaccine to be the best option or would you just always avoid a vaccine?
I guess personally I am one of those who thinks the vaccine is minimal risk while anything with CFR greater than 1% I see as a risk that I can remove by taking the vaccine.
The CDC says this : "While the impact of flu varies, it places a substantial burden on the health of people in the United States each year. CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010."
Judging from the above, roughly about 1 in 50 or so people with the flu are hospitalized for it, and about 1 in 7 to 1 in 35 get the flu each year. Myself, I would rather fight off the flu naturally as it comes in contact with my outer layer of immune defences than have substances of questionable impact injected directly into my flesh. Now, if I was bitten by an animal that might have been rabid, then by all means I would very quickly get a rabies shot.
Some people seem to know that they are vulnerable. I'm not at that place, not yet. So I'll avoid the flu vaccine for now. I don't recall getting the flu except for one year around Christmas maybe 15 years ago when my entire family was throwing up. Don't even know if that was the flu.
For those who are older and think that the flu vaccine will reduce their chances of getting hospitalized for the flu, that may not be the case:
https://medicalxpress.com/news…talization-mortality.html
"...They studied data from patient surveys and administrative records for adults aged 55 to 75 years residing in England and Wales from 2000 to 2014. They found that while turning 65 was associated with a statistically and clinically significant increase in rate of seasonal influenza vaccination, no evidence indicated that vaccination reduced hospitalizations or mortality among elderly persons. The estimates were precise enough to rule out results from many previous studies."
Judging from the above, roughly about 1 in 50 or so people with the flu are hospitalized for it, and about 1 in 7 to 1 in 35 get the flu each year. Myself, I would rather fight off the flu naturally as it comes in contact with my outer layer of immune defences than have substances of questionable impact injected directly into my flesh.
Perhaps you have never been in the hospital with a severe case of the flu. I have. It developed into pneumonia. It was miserable. If I had not gone, I might have died. If you had gone through that, I expect you would have no objection whatever to an annual vaccination. It is a shame that influenza changes so quickly and they cannot target it for more than a year, but that's how nature works, so we have to get an annual vaccine. (They are working on a vaccine that targets a different part of the virus, that may last for years.)
Your statement about "questionable impact" is pure bullshit. Anti-science, irrational bullshit. The kind of bullshit that kills people. Vaccines and viruses are well understood. The mechanisms have been studied in enormous detail, with everything from epidemiology to supercomputers. The reasons why flu vaccines sometimes fail are known in enormous detail. Other vaccines always work, and it is likely the COVID-19 ones will.
Your statement about "injected directly into my flesh" is emotionalism. How else can a vaccine be administered? By sending it through a wormhole in space? By staring at it and reciting a magic spell? People have been injecting vaccinations since Jenner's time in the 18th century. This has saved more lives and prevented more tragedies than anything else in the history of medicine. It one of the most important discoveries in history, right up there with fire, steam power, and electricity. But you don't like it, so you post these grotesque lies and emotion laden bullshit to try persuade people there is a problem where no problem exists.
Frankly, I am fed up. This is supposed to be science-based discussion group. Not a place for Q-Anon style garbage. If I were in charge, I would delete anti-vaxx messages, unless you can point to actual scientific evidence from even a semi-legitimate source. We don't allow flat-earth advocacy here, or perpetual motion machine claims. Anti-vax garbage is even worse than those, because it causes real harm by discouraging people from getting medical treatment. I don't understand why such extreme anti-science views should be tolerated. Just because they are widespread? Hysterical opposition to cold fusion is also widespread. But when people attack cold fusion here, I think most of us demand they present actual science-based argument and data, not some damned conspiracy theory that cold fusion researchers are engaged in fraud.
Lordy Jed, no need to get your knickers in a knot over needles. The cold hard emotionless fact is that vaccination does usually involve injecting a complex mix of chemicals directly into one's flesh. This is not a situation that evolution has prepared us for. Even plain old saline solution injected into flesh can produce mild side effects. You say we understand vaccines in "enormous detail". Yet you conspicuously left out "completely", and well you should because it is well known that experts have said in retrospect regarding vaccines that didn't turn out well, that they have a lot to learn. You are emulating all too well the attitude of drug companies trying to sell their product. I'm happy that you're enthused about this product, but I'll pick and choose what goes into my body, thank you.
The cold hard emotionless fact is that vaccination does usually involve injecting a complex mix of chemicals directly into one's flesh.
Yes, and so what? Eating involves putting a complex mix of chemicals in your mouth and gut. So what?
This is not a situation that evolution has prepared us for.
Utter bullshit. You don't seem to know the first thing about biology or evolution. EVERY TIME you accidentally poke yourself with a thorn, or scratch your leg on a rock or a stick, or get a splinter, you inject yourself with far more bacteria than any vaccine. That's how you get tetanus or any of a hundred other infections. It happens to people and animals every day. Yesterday I was gardening and I just noticed large scratches on my leg that bled -- that I did not even notice when it happened. If we were not evolved to resist the effects of that, no species would survive.
but I'll pick and choose what goes into my body, thank you.
Wonderful! I did not know it was a choice. So, you will chose not to allow COVID-19 or tetanus into your body. How do you do that? Is there an online form I should fill out? Do you have God's telephone number?
Mark U I couldn't agree with you more. It is scientific arrogance to claim that we understand everything about vaccines. I am not an 'anti vaxer' by the way, it is just one of the weapons in our armory with which to fight this plague. My chief objection is the overemphasis by the medical profession on this approach while neglecting the use of cheap, available antiviral compounds found in our Anti-Bat recipe. I am not going to go over it all again, decide for yourselves if you want as an objective individual whether as an objective scientist you want to survive this pandemic or not. The choice is yours alone and is not up to the NHS, the government or any of their pseudo-scientific acolytes (mentioning no names but one has the initials D.C)
You say we understand vaccines in "enormous detail". Yet you conspicuously left out "completely",
We do not know anything about any aspect of nature "completely." We never will. If we spend the next 200 years studying e-coli, we will still not "completely" understand it.
because it is well known that experts have said in retrospect regarding vaccines that didn't turn out well, that they have a lot to learn.
Any expert in any subject will say the same thing. We have been using fire for hundreds of thousands of years. The nature of combustion has been understood in detail since the 18th century. Gigantic sums of money has been spent on combustion engineering during the last 250 years, for coal steam boilers, gasoline ICE, space heating and other applications. It is one of the best understood aspects of engineering. And yet, boilers explode. Aircraft engines fly apart. Generator fire boxes burn through. Many things do not turn out well. Any combustion engineer will tell you they have a lot to learn.
And just a little note to Team Google, please stop hacking into my computing systems I am way ahead of you and am on your side. I know you have been monitoring 'phishing' for cold fusion ideas for your own program of investigation into LENR but I will say this once and for all I am not a terrorist or have any such leanings. So please stop it before I have to go to further expense on my own part to install more sophisticated cyber-security software (I traced your phishing bots so please let our forum remain transparent for the pursuit of scientific knowledge, medical of nuclear. Thanks). 
And just a little note to Team Google, please stop hacking into my computing systems I am way ahead of you and am on your side. I know you have been monitoring 'phishing' for cold fusion ideas for your own program of investigation into LENR but I will say this once and for all I am not a terrorist or have any such leanings. So please stop it before I have to go to further expense on my own part to install more sophisticated cyber-security software (I traced your phishing bots so please let our forum remain transparent for the pursuit of scientific knowledge, medical of nuclear. Thanks).
Its just as good to let them look around at this point, the science they are looking for is better to understand now rather then later..
Lordy Jed, no need to get your knickers in a knot over needles. The cold hard emotionless fact is that vaccination does usually involve injecting a complex mix of chemicals directly into one's flesh. This is not a situation that evolution has prepared us for. Even plain old saline solution injected into flesh can produce mild side effects. You say we understand vaccines in "enormous detail". Yet you conspicuously left out "completely", and well you should because it is well known that experts have said in retrospect regarding vaccines that didn't turn out well, that they have a lot to learn. You are emulating all too well the attitude of drug companies trying to sell their product. I'm happy that you're enthused about this product, but I'll pick and choose what goes into my body, thank you.
A bit like tatoos, except it does you more good health-wise
Frankly, I am fed up. This is supposed to be science-based discussion group. Not a place for Q-Anon style garbage.
I guess it's you that sounds the Q-Anon way. But Frankly do I have to know that site ??
So: Many vaccines work fine. But only a few people are really sensitive to flu. And guess what's the main problem? The same as with CoV-19. Low V-D low zinc bad eating style diabetes II etc...
So please stop it before I have to go to further expense on my own part to install more sophisticated cyber-security software (I traced your phishing bots so please let our forum remain transparent for the pursuit of scientific knowledge, medical of nuclear. Thanks)
Don't get paranoid! Buy I tiny Rasperry and do all your WWW work on small resetable machine. It's not google that is watching you it's NSA -five+ eyes. The true reason behind 9/11 was to enforce global surveillance - Patriot act.
Only the most idiot country's citizens can believe that the secrete service must follow all patriots...
And do not forget to switch off all network devices (bluetooth!) of your private machine. Just use a wire if you have to print something.
