The WHO said remdesivir doesn't work so what's up with this?
The experts disagree. That often happens. But that does not mean that one group or the other is knowingly committing mass murder.
Covid-19 News
- Alan Smith
- Closed
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The experts disagree. That often happens. But that does not mean that one group or the other is knowingly committing mass murder.
how do you read mass murder by my questioning why the FDA approved this treatment, Mr Phineas T Bluster?
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how do you read mass murder by my questioning why the FDA approved this treatment,
I was referring to the earlier comment by Zelenko.
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I came across an interesting study on iron and the imune system . It seems a simple blood test checking vitamin d levels and iron will tell you how susceptible to covid 19 you might be.
https://journals.plos.org/plos…n%20in%20vitro%20%5B10%5D.
Abstract
Hepatic expression of iron homeostasis genes and serum iron parameters predict the success of immunosuppression withdrawal following clinical liver transplantation, a phenomenon known as spontaneous operational tolerance. In experimental animal models, spontaneous liver allograft tolerance is established through a process that requires intra-hepatic lymphocyte activation and deletion. Our aim was to determine if changes in systemic iron status regulate intra-hepatic lymphocyte responses. We used a murine model of lymphocyte-mediated acute liver inflammation induced by Concanavalin A (ConA) injection employing mice fed with an iron-deficient (IrDef) or an iron-balanced diet (IrRepl). While the mild iron deficiency induced by the IrDef diet did not significantly modify the steady state immune cell repertoire and systemic cytokine levels, it significantly dampened inflammatory liver damage after ConA challenge. These findings were associated with a marked decrease in T cell and NKT cell activation following ConA injection in IrDef mice. The decreased liver injury observed in IrDef mice was independent from changes in the gut microflora, and was replicated employing an iron specific chelator that did not modify intra-hepatic hepcidin secretion. Furthermore, low-dose iron chelation markedly impaired the activation of isolated T cells in vitro. All together, these results suggest that small changes in iron homeostasis can have a major effect in the regulation of intra-hepatic lymphocyte mediated responses
Vit D Vit C zinc Vit B1 and iron should keep covid away, Go get a blood test if you are over 40 it could save your life.
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Vitamins alone would not protect fully against COVID though. A similar regimen of vitamins has been tested against a slew of other viruses, including the common cold and whilst they amelirorate symptoms, they do not stop the illness developing. The stark reality is we need anti-viral therapy . Without it, none of us will survive to normal old-age. The best and most interesting possibility was to purify the active ingredient of HCQ, the S-enantiomer which early research showed was much more effective and less toxic than the mixture. Unfortunately this research was dropped like a hot potato when the politics kicked in. So, if you want to protect yourselves - use anti-bat - like I said at the beginning of this thread ........why are we letting people die when there are known anti-virals that can be used? And Sorry, @THH you are just plain wrong, you cannot argue against the dose-response relations first published by Weng et al (February 2) then confirmed by Gordon et al (Nature paper) showing clear evidence that these are potent anti-viral agents!! No evidence my foot!!!!!
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The LD50 of HCQ is 1g/kg in mice. https://entokey.com/toxicology…e-retinopathy-they-cause/. So I’m not sure what your point is, but it’s likely wrong.
Obviously we here discuss with a mice brain: But why should trolls be different...
Usual Fatal Dose■Chloroquine: 3 to 6 grams. As little as 2.25 to 3 grams of chloroquine may be fatal in an adult. About 2 to 3 times the therapeutic dose may be fatal in children. Estimated fatal dose is 30 to 50 mg chloroquine base/kg.■Hydroxychloroquine: 10 to 20 grams. Adults have developed hypotension and ventricular arrhythmias after ingesting 12 to 22 grams.■Chloroquine toxicity is dose dependant. The following has been observed in adults: YDose ingested greater than 4 grams - neurological, cardiovascular and ECG disturbances; serum chloro-quine level greater than 5 mg/L at the 4th hour. YDose ingested 2 to 4 grams - neurological symptoms and ECG abnormalities, serum chloroquine level of 2.5 to 5 mg/L. YDose ingested less than 2 grams - no clinical symptoms, serum chloroquine level less than 2.5 mg/L.YThe occurrence of side effects in patients under chlo-roquine therapy is related to chloroquine serum levels. No side effects occurred in patients with serum levels less than 0.4 mg/L, whereas 80% of the patients with a level higher than 0.8 mg/L had side effects.Diagnosis1.Serum level estimation by high pressure liquid chroma-tography. Chloroquine levels higher than 5 mcg/ml are associated with serious toxicity.2.Like quinine, chloroquine fluoresces under UV light (254 nm and 366 nm), and this property can be used to identify the substance in urine. For this purpose, first add 0.1 ml of dilute HCl to 1 ml of urine and then vortex-mix for 10 seconds. If there is fluorescence, add 1 gram of sodium chloride, vortex-mix for 10 seconds and examine under UV light again. The urine will not fluoresce any more.
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Vitamins alone would not protect fully against COVID though.
Studies show that people with High V-D and zinc levels do not go to ICU and express more mild forms of Covid. The same has been shown for flu already about 8 years ago...
The WHO dose obvioulsy does not help you... Ask why!
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Recent advances in our understanding the association between vitamin D and anemia suggest that maintenance of sufficient vitamin D status may be important in preventing anemia, particularly in diseases characterized by inflammation. Early clinical trials have been promising, but further research is needed to define the efficacy of vitamin D as a future approach for the treatment of anemia.
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India.. Revised Protocol
https://www.newindianexpress.c…ory-on-felud-2214115.html
early HCQ OK
Remdesivir OK
Tocilizumab OK
Ivermectin not OK....yet ( except in Uttar Pradesh, Goa..)
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Switzerland: We just perform an interesting experiment. From top to flop within 10 days! 50% increase in total cases within 10 days in ZH ...
Now we (ZH) also see a moderate increase in ICU cases that usually lag behind 3-8 days depending on age of the affected. Other parts see a strong increase of 4x?
We (Switzerland) now have > 6000 cases/day what would be > 300'000 for USA and is about in line with France. Only 3% of the death (VD the hot spot) are younger than 65! 85% are older than 75 years.
This explains why mortality for age < 65 is way lower than 0.05%.
Sorry for the oldies but this is real live!
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The experts disagree. That often happens. But that does not mean that one group or the other is knowingly committing mass murder.
Maybe because there are no “experts”?
Covid 19 is a new virus, the planet medical profession just started gathering data this spring, and we still know very little about it.
For anyone to “quote and expert” on Covid19 is silly, unless of course it supports their argument.
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An association of iron deficenccy and zinc
Zinc and iron are the most important trace elements in homeostasis. Iron and zinc have important roles in heme structure, iron absorption, iron transport and exhibit competitive inhibition in transport and bio-availability [12-13]. Zinc acts as a catalyst in heme metabolism being part of GFi-1B zinc finger protein structure, which is a major regulator in erythroid cell growth by modulating gene expression specific to erythroid series, performs transcriptional regulation during erythropoiesis [3, 4]. The association between zinc deficiency and iron deficiency may be due to nutritional insufficiency of both elements or malabsorption.
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Hospitalized coronavirus patients who took daily aspirin for cardiovascular health had a lower death risk than those who did not take aspirin, according to the findings of a new study conducted by researchers with the University of Maryland School of Medicine.
https://www.foxnews.com/health…in-lower-death-risk-study
Following their analysis, the study authors concluded that those who took aspirin had a 44% reduced chance of requiring ventilation, and a 43% less risk of requiring admission into the ICU. Most importantly, the researchers said, those who took aspirin also had a 47% reduced risk of dying in the hospital compared to those who did not take the drug.
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Usual Fatal Dose, Hydroxychloroquine: 10 to 20 grams. Adults have developed hypotension and ventricular arrhythmias after ingesting 12 to 22 grams.
Quote from RECOVERY paperPatients allocated to hydroxychloroquine sulfate received a loading dose of 4 tablets (800 mg) at zero and 6 hours, followed by 2 tablets (400mg) starting at 12 hours after the initial dose and then every 12 hours for the next 9 days or until discharge (whichever occurred earlier
So your claim is that, because the RECOVERY patients took up to 9.2g HCQ, and this counts as almost a potentially lethal dose - because it doesn’t matter whether the 10-20g is taken in a single dose or over 10 days - that the doctors are murderers?
Most Excellent logic... Rationality takes another Wyttenslap.
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the RECOVERY patients
The WHO hired a consultant to explore the toxicity of hydroxychloroquine in 1979. The consultant, H. Weniger, looked at 335 episodes of adult poisoning by chloroquine drugs. Weniger on page 5 notes that a single dose of 1.5-2 grams of chloroquine base “may be fatal.”
The Recovery trial used 1.86 grams hydroxychloroquine base (equal to 2400 mg of hydroxychloroquine) in the first 24 hours for treatment of already very ill, hospitalized Covid-19 patients, a potentially lethal dose. The Canadian and Norwegian trials used 2,000 mg of HCQ, or 1.55 grams of HCQ base in the first 24 hours. Each trial gave patients a cumulative dose during the first 24 hours that, when given as a single dose, has been documented to be lethal. (The drug’s half-life is about a month(22.3 days), so the cumulative amount is important.)
https://www.palmerfoundation.c…-potentially-fatal-doses/
A more recent report here
". Severe symptoms can occur with doses as small as 1.5 g with onset one to three hours post-ingestion
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369162/
IMHO as a pharmacist the RECOVERY HCQ dosing of COVID patients was an egregious error.
there have been 118 studies of HCQ treatment of Covid patients..the RECOVERY HCQ arm was one with exceptionally high dosing
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Maybe because there are no “experts”?
Don't be absurd. There are more experts on microbiology and viruses than at any time in history, and their knowledge is encyclopedic. The Chinese published the genome of COVID-19 in January. That was far more information than any researcher could have dreamed of before the 1980s. Research on a vaccine began immediately, and has made more progress than researchers used to make in years or decades.
Covid 19 is a new virus, the planet medical profession just started gathering data this spring, and we still know very little about it.
Biologists know more about COVID-19 than any biologist knew about any species in 1980. Tremendous progress has been made in microbiology, starting with the DNA sequencing of many species, which began then.
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The WHO hired a consultant to explore the toxicity of hydroxychloroquine in 1979. The consultant, H. Weniger, looked at 335 episodes of adult poisoning by chloroquine drugs. Weniger on page 5 notes that a single dose of 1.5-2 grams of hydroxychloroquine base “may be fatal.”
Well, I ain't no pharmacist, but even I know the difference between hydroxychloroquine and its three times as toxic relative chloroquine, which your WHO report is referring to.
[Line reserved for unnecessary flippant comment]
The Recovery trial used 1.86 grams hydroxychloroquine base (equal to 2400 mg of hydroxychloroquine) in the first 24 hours for treatment of already very ill, hospitalized Covid-19 patients, a potentially lethal dose. The Canadian and Norwegian trials used 2,000 mg of HCQ, or 1.55 grams of HCQ base in the first 24 hours. Each trial gave patients a cumulative dose during the first 24 hours that, when given as a single dose, has been documented to be lethal. (The drug’s half-life is about a month, so the cumulative amount is important.)
We’re talking about Clive Palmer, right? The chubby billionaire-property-developer-turned-rightwing-populist-politician*? The guy who regularly takes out newspaper advents touting his purchase of 30 million doses of HCQ as free gift to the
AmeriAustralian people? Like he’s some kind of bloated christ-like saviour figure?I trust his unbiased judgement for sure... About as much as Swiss
PutinPolicy Research.* Yep, he also makes unsupported claims that the Australian Election Commission is corrupt, and is under investigation for dubious transfers of money prior to his election. (Rumours that he doesn’t like all shades of brown people and has started dating a Slovenian model are currently unconfirmed).
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in a fight for life she told me "they are trying to save my life" that same day she died. after volunteering to take a higher dose
I was 22
the 200.000 in bills showed up after that.
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We’re talking about Clive Palmer, right?
Wrong... Zeus.. I take it Thou art using the Godly 'we'. Perhaps 'we' can identify Palmer writing with Xray vision.?
humble I ...( not 'we' ) am talking about HCQ.. but Thy view from 'we' giddy heights of Olympia. is bound to be less mundane.
the normal dosage for HCQ is 200-400 mg/day...
the early Chinese studies used lower doses than RECOVERY.. and most of the other 118 studies did too.
as in * below.
how did the RECOVERY pharmacist justify such high levels (2400 mg in 1 day) straight up ,in so many patients?
This would be grounds for litigation in the USA..
upping the dosage may lead to toxicity especailly in sick Covid patients
upping it to RECOVERY levels without reference to prior studies is foolish..
reiinopathy may not be the only complication.. Covid infection is still not well understood.
IMHO as a pharmacist..
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Only diagnosed COVID-19 patients who met the defined risk stratification requirements
of group A, B, or C got a prescription for the following triple therapy for 5 consecutive
days in addition to standard supportive care: zinc sulfate (220 mg capsule once daily,
containing 50 mg elemental zinc), HCQ (200 mg twice daily), and azithromycin (500
mg once daily). No loading dose was used." -
It's amazing the extent to which the internet is being censored, including TV news satellite broadcasts. We had two tory MP's on the BBC discussing the issue of whether or not to issue free school meal vouchers to ensure good nutrition for the poverty-stricken lower classes. One, having made the mistake that such government funding would only support 'crack dens and brothels' presumably run by the lower classes!!!!!. This came from the junior, more obviously fascist MP. His partner in crime the Health and Education Minister actually stated the opposite view that the school voucher system was the fairest and should be maintained. When the BBC interviewer grilled the younger MP, he lost his argument and started spluttering inanely whereupon the sound was muted and the satellite/internet connection was either jammed or switched off! Oh the subtleties of mass - media manipulation! I have suffered similar internet intimidation for the views I have expressed on this site about ANTI-BAT therapies. Long Live The Revolution!!!!!!
