Quote from @Wyttenbach

This is wrong for CoV-19 as you cannot protect mucosa against external virus excess by a vaccine. You can prevent the virus to spread over the blood vessel

Sorry Wyttenbach that is not what I meant.

I was not suggesting a physical barrier but that the vaccine provides a barrier to spreading in the population as the vaccinated portion increases, hopefully eventually leading to the virus becoming vastly less present, although it is likely to become present as a continuous infectious threat due to spreading throughout the world. On the other hand the Spanish flu seemed to disappear so maybe it could happen, I don't know.

From an evolutionary perspective the virus should indeed try to mutate to beat the vaccine. How likely that is with Covid-19 I do not know, but in any case severely restricting the pool of bodies with Covid-19 should mean the virus has less chance to mutate.

Except that is has now spread to other animal species so who knows?

Creepy stone monolith players involved in all this?

bizarre coincidence or just part of the conspiracy..

Quote from Toffoli

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021…details-and-the-raw-data/

"While Moderna has named its four-member adjudication committee—all university-affiliated physicians—Pfizer’s protocol says three Pfizer employees did the work. Yes, Pfizer staff members."

Unbelievable like the Boeing MAX issue... But if mafia controls mafia, then it must be so anyway. As also Professors usually are heavily sponsored by Big Pharma.

Also the counting for CoV-19 deaths is clear: If you are old, have three comorbidity and one finds the CoV-19 virus when you did die within 30 days of CoV-19 then you are counted.

But for vaccines the rules are reversed. If old people in Norway die short after the vaccination then they the are not counted as vaccination deaths... That's how children usually make the rules. I'm the big one --> the cake is mine. Oh the cake smells bad --> its yours.

Thus, so far we have about 100 direct deaths (Today in total 30 from Norway!)after vaccination (30 days) - several 10'000 severe adverse effects and very good reason to believe that Pfizer is heavily cheating about the fabulous efficiency.

We don't know whether vaccinated people can spread and how long they will spread the virus.

Quote from ZenoOfElea

I was not suggesting a physical barrier but that the vaccine provides a barrier to spreading in the population as the vaccinated portion increases,

How should a respiratory illness vaccine do this ??? It will partially work for e.g. Hepatitis.

Peter Doshi 2012 >>> 2020

Why the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine is only 33% effective after one dose and not 50 as promized:

https://pledgetimes.com/how-we…he-biontech-vaccine-work/

Clalit compared the proportion of positive corona tests among 200,000 vaccinated Israelis over the age of 60 with the positive test rate among 200,000 unvaccinated in the same age group. After two weeks, the infection rate among those vaccinated fell 33 percent compared to those who had not received the vaccination – even though the vaccinated participants only received the first dose of the Biontech / Pfizer vaccine.

So this at best will end up at 60..70% for the old and vulnerable (That survive the vaccination... )

https://www.urdupoint.com/en/w…aralysis-aft-1143428.html

In addition to fatal cases, the media outlet reported about 96 life-threatening cases following COVID-19 vaccinations, as well as 24 permanent disabilities, 225 hospitalizations, and 1,388 emergency room visits.

• In late December 2020, Beijing ratified a 2017 deal with Ankara to see people with criminal charges extradited to China.
• Turkey is yet to ratify it, and opposition politicians in the country raised concerns that Beijing was withholding the shipments of COVID-19 vaccines from the Chinese firm Sinovac until Ankara agreed.

https://www.businessinsider.co…-vaccine-2021-1?r=US&IR=T

Peter Doshi at Scopus

Quote from Shane D.

China is probably doing Turkey a favor....Sinovac is only 50% effective according to the Brazilians.

Beware of Chinese medicines..and BigPharma

Money first.. full efficacy data later.. much later

Covid: What do we know about China's coronavirus vaccines?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55212787

Interesting observations on Sweden's experience --

No Restrictions in Sweden in 2020 - What Was the Result?

The US has 'screaming level' of Covid-19 transmission, expert says, as country adds nearly 4 million cases this month

(CNN)Just a little more than halfway into January, the US has added a staggering 3.9 million new Covid-19 cases and more than 51,000 virus-related deaths.

The country's total Covid-19 death toll is now rapidly approaching 400,000 -- that's more than the number of Americans who died in World War I, Vietnam War and the Korean War combined and nearly as many Americans who died in World War II.

And it's by far higher than any other country's Covid-19 death toll.

The FDA needs to give emergency use for ivermectin not some vague statement but it is a step in the right direction.

Treat early, treat often and treat all

South Africa struggles against ‘relentless’ COVID-19 surge

https://news.google.com/articl…=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Johannesburg, South Africa – South Africa’s health services are buckling under the strain of soaring COVID-19 infections driven partly by a new variant of coronavirus spreading across the country.

Medical professionals warn that the “relentless” infection wave that has seen more than 130,000 new COVID-19 cases and 4,000 related deaths in the last week alone threatens to overrun both public and private hospitals.

“As soon as beds open, there are more than 10 people waiting to fill them – we cannot cope,” a medical officer working at Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital in Johannesburg told Al Jazeera.

The government of south africa has outlawed ivermectin, and seems to have abandoned any early treatment, instead waiting on a chinese vaccine. While the dead pile up.!

Another concerning sign, this is happening in brazil as well as south africa both in the southern hemisphere

Treat early treat often and treàt all

Japan to study cases of people infected after coronavirus vaccination

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/n…-coronavirus-vaccination/

Japan plans to collect data from people who become infected with the novel coronavirus even after they receive vaccinations to assess how vaccines may help prevent the spread of the virus, sources close to the matter said Sunday.

Inoculations are expected to start in Japan possibly in February. The health ministry will create a system to gather vaccination records of all infected people by adding checkboxes to a document that doctors are required to submit to public health centers when they confirm coronavirus infections, the sources said.

As 29 Deaths In Norway Raise Worry, Australia Seeks Info On Covid Jabs

https://news.google.com/articl…=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Norway expressed increasing concern about the safety of the Pfizer Inc. vaccine on elderly people with serious underlying health conditions after raising an estimate of the number who died after receiving inoculations to 29.

The latest figure adds six to the number of known fatalities in Norway, and lowers the age group thought to be affected to 75 from 80. While it's unclear exactly when the deaths occurred, Norway has given at least one dose to about 42,000 people and focused on those considered most at risk if they contract the virus, including the elderly.

Until Friday, the vaccine produced by Pfizer and BioNTech SE was the only one available in Norway, and "all deaths are thus linked to this vaccine," the Norwegian Medicines Agency said in a written response to Bloomberg on Saturday.

Australia may not open borders in 2021, even with vaccines

https://news.google.com/articl…=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Australia may not fully reopen its international borders this year even if most of the population is vaccinated against coronavirus, the head of its health department said on Monday, as the country recorded no new local cases of COVID-19.

Australia is looking at potential adverse effects of the Pfizer vaccine after Norway reported a small number of deaths in older people who received the shot, but is due to begin its immunisation programme next month.

Egypt Denied an Oxygen Failure Killed Covid Patients. We Found That It Did.

https://news.google.com/articl…=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

A cry pierced the night from the balcony of an Egyptian hospital. A nurse was screaming that the patients in the Covid intensive care unit were gasping for air.

Ahmed Nafei, who was standing outside, brushed past a security guard, dashed in and saw that his 62-year-old aunt was dead.

Furious, he whipped out his phone and began filming. It appeared that the hospital had run out of oxygen. Monitors were beeping. A nurse was visibly distressed and cowering in a corner as her colleagues tried to resuscitate a man using a manual ventilator.

So, is this a government failure or is it sitting directly on the backs of hospital administrators, part of the medical community, saving a few dollars? This is not just middle eastern countries as hospitals in the US , England and Brazil have all reported shortages. Oxygen pretty essential. Unbelievable, but after a year of mistakes, not so much. Yah modern medicine and your cost saving measures!

Quote from Roseland67

We are going to learn more and more about this disease every day, there are no experts,

Of course there are experts. Do you think the vaccine fell out of the sky? Do you think the case mortality rate fell from 6% to 2% on its own, by coincidence? There were experts in virology and the coronavirus specifically before this outbreak. Unfortunately, they were mostly ignored by government leaders and by the public in the U.S. In countries where the public listened to them, the infection and death rates are 10 to 100 times lower than the U.S.

Quote from ZenoOfElea

So what to do?

I personally do not have the expertise to judge but I bet Jed would say we have no real choice but to rely on the vaccines.

The experts say we do have a choice. We can rely on vaccines, or we can let nature run its course, killing 2 or 3 million people, and disabling millions more for life, in the U.S. alone. That is how ever other major pandemic in history ended. That is a law of nature. You can't change it by wishful thinking or home remedies. You can reduce casualties with masks and public health measures, but you cannot magically make the virus go away without a vaccine.

Anyone who does not think at least 2 million will die cannot do simple arithmetic. COVID-19 is sure to kill 500,000 by the end of February no matter what we do.

Most of the deaths and misery could have been avoided. It should have been. See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0…/biden-covid-19-plan.html

Biden’s Covid-19 Plan Is Maddeningly Obvious

You can’t help but wonder why the Trump administration left so many of these things undone.