question.... Has anyone come across a vaccine breakthrough case in the oxford or J&j vaccine or are they all related to Pfizer and Moderna. If they are just related to the mrna vaccines, then why are we still using them. Breakthroughs are expected but not at the numbers we are seeing. At 73 million we had 6000, now that the us has topped 200 million jabs the total could be over 10,000 breakthrough cases. That's a lot of unaware spreaders!
Covid-19 News
- Alan Smith
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shows what many experts have said for much of the last year -- you don't want this
virus, Gupta said.
You just repeat the usual hit and fear story. This study has been done among people with a median age 67... and did include people that were severly ill (=20-30 days) so it is more or less nonsense to make conclusions for others based on this study.
The only thing we can note: Why do they not promote ivermectin to avoid long Covid among elderly people?
There is not single serious adverse effect from the mRNA vaccines.
This is is the most outrageous lie by a professioal FM trumpet I ever heard! Look at the CDC woder database... Old blind man?!
MIT researchers say you're no safer from Covid indoors at 6 feet or 60 feet in new study challenging social distancing policies
The Chinese did prove this halve a year ago already. Oh sorry USA doesn't like China...
But the German did show this already a year ago...
If you stay longer than 2-4 minutes then buy a FP98 mask! surgical mask do not stop CoV-19 just reduce it by 30% at best!!
This is why I tell since 6 months used HEPA filter machines indoor!
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Excellent discussion on the Swedish approach after one year.
Johan Giesecke, the country's former state epidemiologist, assesses a year of pandemic
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Swiss statiscs just confirms herpes Zoster reactivation is among the most frequent side effect. So far 34 cases for about 1 mio vaccinated people. This is what has been reported.- Usually this is far less than the reality. In the USA it's less than 1/10 of all cases that get reported as this generates no income for the doctors.... We here had about 500 severe reactions (these must be reported - for about 1mio patients) with follow up medical treatment. This is inline with other (incomplete..) data. All this is only about RNA vaccines.
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/f…en-betroffen-215991753311
This herpes virus reactivation is much less severe than the RNA vaccine induced CoV-19 illness, that so far at least did kill 10'000 people world wide. This problem is caused by the brainless approach the RNA folks did follow. Targeting the spike as the acting region of induced antibodies is, from a medical point of view, a criminal act. As we luckily now did learn from many CoV-19 papers, the ACE-2 signaling pathway does a significant contribution to our all immune response. Thus the antibodies have the same effect as a partial immune suppressive what may result in unglue/untie all potential dormant virus.
If Papiloma cancer cases (one of the most frequent!) among vaccinated woman do increases in the following years it will be obvious why.
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you coerced 'government' into Houston Methodist and said FM1 misunderstood..
when clearly he did not mean government.. he did not misunderstand..
I guess you wanted to make point JR..about private vs govt... which is selfevident to most.
It is not self evident to me, but again, what is your point? Do you think the government can control the Methodist Church? If the Methodist Church coerces people to do this or that, do you think the government can do anything about it? Or should do anything?
Churches coerce their congregations in all kinds of ways, such as demanding they tithe. Or not engage in homosexual behavior. The government and the public have no say in these matters. Yes, it happens in the U.S. but it might as well be in India or on Mars as far as public policy goes. It makes no sense to say "there is coercion in the U.S." You should say "there is coercion in the Methodist Church." You might compare that to other denominations, or to churches in other countries. That would be a meaningful comparison. I don't see how pointing to a subset of U.S. society and claiming it coerces tells you anything about the U.S. You should ask instead: Are Methodists in other countries are less coercive? Or more coercive?
Mind you, I fully support the Methodists on this issue. I wish all organizations would start coercing their employees and congregations. If they do not, I fear COVID will remain active in the population, thousands of people will die unnecessarily, and we will have to be vaccinated every year indefinitely. I also wish the U.S. government would coerce people to the same extent it coerced them to get the polio vaccine. I want more coercion, not less, but alas there is no prospect of that. Perhaps you want to see less coercion. That means you want the alternative, which is to see more people suffer, more deaths, more lifelong disabilities . . . for what? So that right wing snowflakes will not have their precious feelings hurt by being told they can't go into a movie theater because they are too stupid to get vaccinated? To hell with them! They have no right to endanger other people. Any doctor or nurse who refuses to be vaccinated is a dangerous idiot who should not be allowed to practice medicine. Such people resemble a surgeon who does not put on gloves or wash his hands before surgery. Or a cook who knowingly uses spoiled meat and food contaminated with salmonella.
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Has anyone come across a vaccine breakthrough case in the oxford or J&j vaccine or are they all related to Pfizer and Moderna.
Breakthrough cases occur with all vaccines. See:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/c…s/breakthrough-cases.html
QUOTE:
- Vaccine breakthrough cases are expected. COVID-19 vaccines are effective and are a critical tool to bring the pandemic under control. However no vaccines are 100% effective at preventing illness. There will be a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19.
Some patients do not develop enough antibodies to ward off the disease. I have not seen the data for the J&J. Perhaps the numbers from the CDC above are for all types? There may not be much data, because breakthrough cases are exceedingly rare, and there have only been 7 million doses of the J&J administered. There have been 7,000 breakthroughs with 87 million COVID vaccines, so if the ratio is about the same you would expect 560 breakthrough cases with the J&J. It might be difficult to find such a small number, or to distinguish between them and cases where the patient was already infected before being vaccinated.
Breakthrough cases are usually very mild. Deaths are exceedingly rare compared to COVID cases in unvaccinated people. So the vaccines do a lot of good even when they fail to fully prevent the disease.
I do not think they are trying to keep track of every possible breakthrough case. They are just trying to get a handle on what causes breakthroughs. See:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/c…vestigations-Protocol.pdf
QUOTE:
"CDC has determined the project is non-research public health case investigation. The objective is to evaluate cases of COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough reported to CDC. It is not intended to be a systematic investigation of all persons in the United States with SARS-CoV-2 infection following vaccination and, therefore, will not be generalizable to a larger population."
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It is not self evident to me, but again, what is your point? Do you think the government can control the Methodist Church? If the Methodist Church coerces people to do this or that, do you think the government can do anything about it? Or should do anything?
Churches coerce their congregations in all kinds of ways, such as demanding they tithe. Or not engage in homosexual behavior. The government and the public have no say in these matters. Yes, it happens in the U.S. but it might as well be in India or on Mars as far as public policy goes. It makes no sense to say "there is coercion in the U.S." You should say "there is in the Methodist Church." You might compare that to other denominations, or to churches in other countries. That would be a meaningful comparison. I don't see how pointing to a subset of U.S. society and claiming it coerces tells you anything about the U.S. You should ask instead: Are Methodists in other countries are less coercive? Or more coercive?
Mind you, I fully support the Methodists on this issue. I wish all organizations would start coercing their employees and congregations. If they do not, I fear COVID will remain active in the population, thousands of people will die unnecessarily, and we will have to be vaccinated every year indefinitely. I also wish the U.S. government would coerce people to the same extent it coerced them to get the polio vaccine. I want more coercion, not less, but alas there is no prospect of that. Perhaps you want to see less coercion. That means you want the alternative, which is to see more people suffer, more deaths, more lifelong disabilities . . . for what? So that right wing snowflakes will not have their precious feelings hurt by being told they can't go into a movie theater because they are too stupid to get vaccinated? To hell with them! They have no right to endanger other people. Any doctor or nurse who refuses to be vaccinated is a dangerous idiot who should not be allowed to practice medicine. Such people resemble a surgeon who does not put on gloves or wash his hands before surgery. Or a cook who knowingly uses spoiled meat and food contaminated with salmonella.
Jed technically you are right the government has not publicly endorsed any type of coercion, yet by not stepping in they are silently allowing this hospital to discriminate against the employee. I doubt the employee handbook covered this, thus making any employee grandfathered to this new rule. The rule of law must still have an impact even during a pandemic.
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Breakthrough cases occur with all vaccines. See:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/c…s/breakthrough-cases.html
QUOTE:
- Vaccine breakthrough cases are expected. COVID-19 vaccines are effective and are a critical tool to bring the pandemic under control. However no vaccines are 100% effective at preventing illness. There will be a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19.
Some patients do not develop enough antibodies to ward off the disease. I have not seen the data for the J&J. Perhaps the numbers from the CDC above are for all types? There may not be much data, because breakthrough cases are exceedingly rare, and there have only been 7 million doses of the J&J administered. There have been 7,000 breakthroughs with 87 million COVID vaccines, so if the ratio is about the same you would expect 560 breakthrough cases with the J&J. It might be difficult to find such a small number, or to distinguish between them and cases where the patient was already infected before being vaccinated.
Breakthrough cases are usually very mild. Deaths are exceedingly rare compared to COVID cases in unvaccinated people. So the vaccines do a lot of good even when they fail to fully prevent the disease.
I do not think they are trying to keep track of every possible breakthrough case. They are just trying to get a handle on what causes breakthroughs. See:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/c…vestigations-Protocol.pdf
QUOTE:
"CDC has determined the project is non-research public health case investigation. The objective is to evaluate cases of COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough reported to CDC. It is not intended to be a systematic investigation of all persons in the United States with SARS-CoV-2 infection following vaccination and, therefore, will not be generalizable to a larger population."
My point was, the date base doesn't show any breakthrough with j&j and oxford. I find that odd, yet thousands with pfizer and moderns. But you might be right there may not be enough data yet
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My point was, the date base doesn't show any breakthrough with j&j and oxford.
J&J and Oxford (Sputnik) are real vaccines that broadly stimulate T-Cells. With Pfizer this is just luck. But anyway they wanted only to generate the big bucks and not really help you. Even the last Pfizer CEO did oppose to it...
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Jed technically you are right the government has not publicly endorsed any type of coercion, yet by not stepping in they are silently allowing this hospital to discriminate against the employee.
The government cannot step in -- silently or noisily. The Constitution forbids it, especially when the target is a church. As much as I would like to see the government endorse coercion, it would be unconstitutional and there is no legal basis for it. A general law applying to everyone, not just the Methodists, would probably be constitutional.
Any hospital employee who is so stupid, ignorant and dangerous he or she does not get vaccinated deserves to be discriminated against. I wouldn't even call that discrimination. If they caught a nurse or doctor urinating on a patient, or smearing feces on a patient, they would fire that nurse. Probably put her in jail. Would you call that "discrimination"? Willfully doing things that may well infect or kill patients is not acceptable.
COVID-19 kills 2% of infected people. That is about 20 times worse than seasonal influenza. That's why it has killed 570,000 people per year when influenza kills only ~30,000. It hasn't even reached as much of the population as influenza. ~2% case fatality and 570,000 is drastically, totally unacceptable to me. I would do far more to stop it, if I were in charge. The right wing in the U.S. opposes public health measures to stop it, and they will oppose coercion. However, imagine for a moment that it was much more contagious, and the case fatality rate was 10%. It would be killing millions of people in the U.S., as it soon will be in India if nothing is done to stop it. If a new infection emerges with that kind of lethal effect, you can be sure that all this right wing snowflake oh-my-poor-feelings nonsense will be forgotten. People will demand strict lockdowns instead of the pretend ones. They will bury the bodies in mass graves as they did in 1918. All this bullshit about protecting the economy by letting hundreds of thousand of people die for no reason will go out the window, immediately. The public will demand the same level of coercion we had in every other serious epidemic from colonial times up to the mid-20th century. The public should demand this!
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My point was, the date base doesn't show any breakthrough with j&j and oxford. I find that odd, yet thousands with pfizer and moderns.
Are you sure? I looked at that CDC document, and I cannot tell whether it includes J&J or not.
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My point was, the date base doesn't show any breakthrough with j&j and oxford. I find that odd, yet thousands with pfizer and moderns. But you might be right there may not be enough data yet
I heard Dr Harvey Risch recently say that clinicians in Israel are telling him that over half of the people they are seeing for Covid have already been vaccinated. But then I think Israel is using mostly the Pfizer vaccine, so it may not address your question. People like Jed seem to think that a vaccine will eliminate the Sars 2 virus, like it has for smallpox and soon will be for polio. But our experience with the influenza vaccines shows that we cannot vaccinate respiratory viruses into oblivion. For instance, despite a large increase of flu vaccination over the last two decades, mortality from flu remains just as high in people over 65.
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The government cannot step in -- silently or noisily. The Constitution forbids it, especially when the target is a church. As much as I would like to see the government endorse coercion, it would be unconstitutional and there is no legal basis for it. A general law applying to everyone, not just the Methodists, would probably be constitutional.
Any hospital employee who is so stupid, ignorant and dangerous he or she does not get vaccinated deserves to be discriminated against. I wouldn't even call that discrimination. If they caught a nurse or doctor urinating on a patient, or smearing feces on a patient, they would fire that nurse. Probably put her in jail. Would you call that "discrimination"? Willfully doing things that may well infect or kill patients is not acceptable.
COVID-19 kills 2% of infected people. That is about 20 times worse than seasonal influenza. That's why it has killed 570,000 people per year when influenza kills only ~30,000. It hasn't even reached as much of the population as influenza. ~2% case fatality and 570,000 is drastically, totally unacceptable to me. I would do far more to stop it, if I were in charge. The right wing in the U.S. opposes public health measures to stop it, and they will oppose coercion. However, imagine for a moment that it was much more contagious, and the case fatality rate was 10%. It would be killing millions of people in the U.S., as it soon will be in India if nothing is done to stop it. If a new infection emerges with that kind of lethal effect, you can be sure that all this right wing snowflake oh-my-poor-feelings nonsense will be forgotten. People will demand strict lockdowns instead of the pretend ones. They will bury the bodies in mass graves as they did in 1918. All this bullshit about protecting the economy by letting hundreds of thousand of people die for no reason will go out the window, immediately. The public will demand the same level of coercion we had in every other serious epidemic from colonial times up to the mid-20th century. The public should demand this!
almost 30% of all hospital personal have refused the vaccine, you think they should all be fired ? Are you ready to volunteer at your local hospital to fill the gap?
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small town doctor with guts!
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almost 30% of all hospital personal have refused the vaccine, you think they should all be fired ? Are you ready to volunteer at your local hospital to fill the gap?
If it is that many, I guess we cannot fire them. But this reflects badly on medical education and licensing. They should never have gotten into medical school in the first place. I am sure there are plenty of qualified med school applicants who do not believe in voodoo. Perhaps this is one of the reasons the U.S. has 23 times more fatalities per capita than Japan. I cannot imagine a Japanese medical professional embracing this kind of barbarism.
Obviously, I am not qualified to fill the gap.
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I heard Dr Harvey Risch recently say that clinicians in Israel are telling him that over half of the people they are seeing for Covid have already been vaccinated.
That is very unlikely. There have only been a handful of breakthrough cases in the whole country. For that matter, it is unlikely that any clinician in Israel has seen any patient with COVID in recent weeks, because there are fewer than 100 per day in the whole country, and 0 to 5 deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/
Whoever Dr. Risch is, you can bet he is either imagining things or lying. You shouldn't listen to people who make up this kind of garbage, contrary to the facts reported by the Israeli Min. of Health.
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DR Geert Vanden Bossche Doomsday Prophecy.
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/arti…y-dr-geert-vanden-bossche
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They should never have gotten into medical school in the first place.
I agree: A robot hospital would be the best (for you) unless it is programmed on top of windows...
If had the choice, then I would never take a RNA vaccine that targets the ACE-2 lock. So may be this personal want's to have a real choice? It also shows that they still have at least one independently working brain cell...
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Something positive for JED from the Oxford vaccine team:https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3830681
New vaccine for Malaria is 74% effective for one year at least. The best so far was a lousy 30%... This will be a game changer.
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Whoever Dr. Risch is, you can bet he is either imagining things or lying. You shouldn't listen to people who make up this kind of garbage, contrary to the facts reported by the Israeli Min. of Health.
I'd rather bet the professor of epidemiology from Yale is telling the truth. I see no contradiction with this and with what the Israeli data is showing at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/
As I recall an article was shared here earlier this month that the South African variant is able to evade the Pfizer vaccine pretty well, perhaps causing a selection pressure such that vaccinated people are 8 times more likely to have the South African strain than unvaccinated people, albeit the sample size is small.
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2021.04.06.21254882v1
Here's the brief video interview with Risch:
