Quote from Fm1

There are no results that the FDA has looked at they haven't even discussed ivermectin yet,

If the FDA has not even discussed ivermectin, then why are doctors "disappointed at the stance of regulatory bodies such as the FDA," as reported above? What are they disappointed about? Here is the FDA statement. I would say they have discussed it in this statement. They say they have not reviewed test data yet but "some initial research is underway." However, they give various reasons why they think it is a bad idea.

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/…treat-or-prevent-covid-19

The FDA may not have done an official evaluation of the test data yet, but other experts have published various opinions of the test data. Some pro, others con. There does not appear to be a consensus. I don't know what to make of it.

well jed let's see what you make of this. A confirmed death from vaccine. You can no longer claim no deaths related to vaccine, spin that!

Canada's Alberta confirms first death linked to AstraZeneca vaccine

https://www.reuters.com/busine…eneca-vaccine-2021-05-05/

The Canadian province of Alberta reported its first death of a patient from a rare blood clot condition after receiving the AstraZeneca (AZN.L) COVID-19 vaccine, its chief medical officer said.

Canada has reported at least five cases of blood clots following immunization with the vaccine, but public health officials maintain the benefits of the AstraZeneca shot outweigh the potential risks.

The Alberta case, of a woman in her 50s, marks the second case of blood clots, and the only death after more than 253,000 doses of AstraZeneca were administered in the province, Alberta's chief medical officer of health Dr. Deena Hinshaw said in a statementon Tuesday.

"While any death is tragic, it is important to remember that the risks of dying or suffering other severe outcomes from COVID-19 remain far greater than the risk following AstraZeneca vaccine," Hinshaw said.

FCC (link above)

Ivermectin is not an anti-viral (a drug for treating viruses).

But ...

Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19 complementary regimen

Although this study was the first to confirm the antiviral effect of ivermectin on COVID-19 [15], other studies examined the antiviral effects of the drug on both RNA and DNA viruses, which are summarized in Table 1. ... etc

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z

Quote from JedRothwell

I don't know what to make of it

Talk to Jackie Stone in Harare..

You should have no problem with ivermectin as far as 'harm' goes

unless you are a Collie or have a 'bun in the oven'

Quote from zorud

It seems no one here is complaining about Moderna.... any side effects or simply the same story as Pfizer? There have been hundreds of million people vaccinated, mainly in the US...not much can be read nor found...

You can check the CDC wonder database...

There seem to be approx. 3600 deaths from 1 - 4/2021 related to a COVID-19 vaccine in the US. >95% of all vaccine related deaths. Can that really be true?

Can someone please check and confirm this. Moderna has the most deaths....

Quote from Fm1

well jed let's see what you make of this. A confirmed death from vaccine. You can no longer claim no deaths related to vaccine, spin that!

In my opinion this should spur greater production and use of the mRNA vaccines, rather than the adenovirus type. There is no evidence the mRNA ones cause blood clots. However, I would not again withdraw the J&J adenovirus vaccine, because even if this type does kill a small number of patients, it saves hundreds or thousands of times more lives, and prevents terrible effects such as the long-haul syndromes. It is worth the risk. We need to deploy both types as quickly as possible, in the largest numbers we can, to save lives.

Suppose it turns out the mRNA vaccines also kill or disable people. We know that outcome occurs in less than 1 per million patients. ~600 million people have been vaccinated, but there are not 600 deaths reported yet for either the mRNA or adenovirus types. You must take into account the risk/benefit of any treatment. And you must remember that the risk of blood clots is exceedingly small. As one expert put it, even if every blood clot death was caused by the vaccine, you are still more likely to be killed in a car accident driving to get the vaccine than you are to be killed by the vaccine itself. If they find the mechanism that causes clots, they can reduce the risk even more, by identifying patients who might get clots, and by targeting specific treatments of clots when they arise.

The vaccines have already reduced the death rate in the U.S. from a peak of 4,000 per day down to 800. They are saving 3,000 lives a day in the U.S. alone. We should not stop using them because a few people may die from blood clots. Killing another 600,000 more people to save ~10 people would be an insane trade-off!

In another forum, someone said they were angry because a person they know became very sick after getting the vaccine. I pointed out this was probably a coincidence. But, suppose for the sake of argument the person dies and the doctors determine the vaccine did cause it. That changes nothing. It is no reason to get angry. It would be terribly unfortunate, but we have to accept a certain level of risk to avoid much greater risks. I wrote in response:

"Suppose, for the sake of argument, the doctors determine that the death was caused by the Pfizer vaccine. Surely you realize that this vaccine will save millions of lives -- as many as 100 million. If it also kills some people, that is tragic, but the risk/benefit is strongly in favor of the vaccine. If your friend was killed in a car accident, would you be angry at the automobile industry? Would you feel righteous anger at the government for building highways? Of course not! You would accept the fact that cars kill some number of people, but cars are worth the risk because they confer many advantages.

Every year, in the U.S. 12,000 people die from falling down stairs. Do you feel righteous anger at the companies that construct stairways and the carpenters who install them? Would you campaign to eliminate stairways and make all houses and buildings one-story high?"

Quote from gerold.s

You can check the CDC wonder database...

There seem to be approx. 3600 deaths from 1 - 4/2021 related to a COVID-19 vaccine in the US.

No, there are not. There are 3,600 deaths recorded soon after getting the vaccine, but there is as yet no causal connection established between them. They are probably not related. They are probably coincidental. As explained in this discussion above, Uncle Sam keeps track of every single report of deaths, even when there is no reason to think the vaccine caused the death. That is a prudent thing to do, because a researcher looking through the records and medical reports might spot a connection that no one suspected exists. So far that has not happened, except with the blood clots from the adenovirus ones.

Quote from JedRothwell

No, there are not. There are 3,600 deaths recorded soon after getting the vaccine, but there is as yet no causal connection established between them. They are probably not related. They are probably coincidental. As explained in this discussion above, Uncle Sam keeps track of every single report of deaths, even when there is no reason to think the vaccine caused the death. That is a prudent thing to do, because a researcher looking through the records and medical reports might spot a connection that no one suspected exists. So far that has not happened, except with the blood clots from the adenovirus ones.

But it is still very significant, if you compare it with other vaccines in absolute numbers.

Quote from Fm1

well jed let's see what you make of this. A confirmed death from vaccine. You can no longer claim no deaths related to vaccine, spin that!

Really, that is a silly thing to say. Surely you understand that all vaccines have some level of risk. Heck, drinking a glass of water has some risk. You can never avoid risk. You have to compare the risk of taking the vaccine with the risk of not taking it and possibly getting the disease.

You must understand that the vaccines will end the pandemic and save ~100 million lives worldwide. Nothing else can do that! Even if the vaccines kill some small number of people from blood clots, they will save millions of times more people than they kill.

This is not "spin." It is a rational, common sense, risk/benefit analysis. It would insane to kill millions of people in order to save 10 or 20 people.

Quote from zorud

It seems no one here is complaining about Moderna....

Quote from gerold.s

There seem to be approx. 3600 deaths from 1 - 4/2021 related to a COVID-19 vaccine in the US. >95% of all vaccine related deaths. Can that really be true?

This is the answer for Zorud. Pfizer& Moderna are on par. Both fight for the title of the worst vaccine developed ever. But so far we did not see a severe CoV-19 booster effect with moderna that for Pfizer killed factor more than the recorded deaths.

Quote from JedRothwell

They disagree with FDA, so they are disappointed. Doctors who agree with the FDA are relieved.

Yes doctor are happy to make 100-1000x more money with ICU case. One more death cult medal for JedRothwell

Quote from Fm1

They found that Covid survivors were about 39% more likely to have a new diabetes diagnosis in the six months after infection than non-infected users of the VA health system.

This is just fear propaganda. 39% added risk that is tiny remains tiny. Diabetes I is a genetic disease that usually is triggered by a viral infection. So this year CoV-19 last year the flu or herpes, papilloma...

Quote from LeBob

Unfortunately, some authorities in my tiny region have said some less than true statements about ivermectin on national television. Said that it was dangerous and easy to overdose on, when it obviously is helping heal and relieve people. The current situation seems to be officially saying use at your own risk.

Yes: If you don't take it's your risk.....

Quote from gerold.s

But it is still very significant, if you compare it with other vaccines in absolute numbers.

No, not at all. All other modern vaccines have similar numbers of deaths per patient, after adjusting for age groups. In all other cases, nearly all of these deaths in the database are coincidental. Modern vaccines kill fewer than 1 per million patients, and so far, the COVID 19 ones appear to be at that level. Perhaps additional research will reveal that some of those 3,600 deaths were not coincidences, and there was a causal connection. But that has not happened yet.

As I said, "all other vaccines have similar numbers of deaths per patient . . ." You have to be careful making that comparison. It is not a straightforward, one-for-one comparison. As I said, you have to compare similar age groups. And other conditions. The COVID vaccines have been administered mainly to people over 65. Whereas most other vaccines are given to children under 6. Elderly people die by coincidence far more often than small children. Their overall health is much worse. So, the per capita number of coincidental deaths will be far higher for COVID because of who gets it. You have to adjust for age groups, and also for pre-existing health problems such as obesity. Children are much less likely to be obese than 65-year-old adults.

The per capita rate of coincidental deaths for people age 20 will also be far lower than age 65. The absolute number of 20 year olds who die after getting COVID vaccinations will be roughly the same as the number of 20 year olds who die after an influenza vaccine, or a tetanus shot, or any other vaccine. Some number of 20-year-olds are certain to die within a week of getting any medical treatment -- or no medical treatment.

It is very difficult to separate out coincidental deaths from ones that may have been caused by the vaccine. Amateurs should not attempt to do this.

When will this death cult addicted member JedRothwell stop to spread his nonsense ?????

The best vaccine so far did have 1 death in 20 years...

The worst flu vaccine (Pandermix) did cripple some 30'000 people. Also the Papilloma vaccine for girls is a respectful killer same for Polio.

But Pfizer &Moderna are magnitudes worse. Pfizer should not be on the market at all. They faked/spoiled the phase III study.

More on VAERS data :

Fact Check-VAERS data does not prove thousands died from receiving COVID-19 vaccines

https://www.reuters.com/articl…19-vaccines-idUSL1N2LV0NY

If Wyttenbach doesn't cut out his ad nauseam ad hominems (everyone who disagrees with him is a criminal/cult person), I'm going to filter him.

Noise to signal ratio has become intolerable.

https://www.lenr-forum.com/ignored-users/

"You are not blocking any users at the moment."

I was just notified that a business acquaintance passed away Monday.

55 years old and he seemed to be in good health. Certainly non-smoker, not over weight.

I last talked to him a little over a week ago and he stated he had just received his "shot". (Vaccination)

I do not know if it was his first or second nor do I know what "brand" it was. I try to not pry into other's private lives and he did not elaborate.

Reported death was Covid19 related. His wife told me he specifically died of a blood clot.

Coincidence? Possibly.

Does this prove anything? Not definitively.

Is it cause for concern? Most certainly.

There have been enough cases that several countries have at least temporarily stopped using certain vaccines.

Regardless as to what some say here, it is NOT all rosy and guaranteed.

I am not an anti-vaxxer. My 91 year old mother asked if she should get vaccinated. I encouraged her to do so.

My 30 year old youngest son asked and I said he should research and make up his own mind, but that I cautioned against it for him. In good health, lives healthy life style AND he had Covid in January. (Like me, a extremely mild case.)

I am not vaccinated and am leaning on not getting one, at least for another year. I take Vit. D, Zinc, Quecetin and have Ivermectin. I had Covid and it was extremely mild. I have not read a convincing study of WHY the vaccine would give me more immunity that my actual contracted case.

So, to those who push the vaccine without questioning, I sincerely ask... what scientific grounds (provide actual study names or links) that you can provide that supports your theory as to why I should get vaccinated.

To those who are questioning the vaccine, I ask the same question... although I am familiar with probably most of the answers. (Positive Ivermectin studies... NO studies showing it dangerous... NO actual factual reports of bad side effects... only "someone says". )

But none the less, perhaps someone has data that I am not aware of.

So here I am.... a known acquaintance has now died from a blood clot shortly after getting vaccinated. This is not some story on CNN or Fox. It is real and personal.

He got vaccinated and died.

I got Covid and had almost no symptoms. If I had not had reported positive Covid contact, I would not even been tested it was so mild.

Why should I get vaccinated? Because millions have done so? Tell my friend that! MORE MILLIONS have gotten Covid and had no bad effects. Stats can go however you want them to!

I do not want to hear "the experts say", because most experts are usually just the people you listen to who support your preconceived ideas. If you say the experts say, then link to actual studies and not write ups by the FDA or WHO without actual data.

Does vaccines keep me from spreading Covid? My understanding is NO, they do not. One still exhales viral particles as the vaccine does not effect the nasal and oral passage ways. Thus the big push for vaccinated people to still wear masks.

Does vaccines prevent me from getting Covid? Not guaranteed and some studies say prevention is actually extremely low percentage. The 95+ percentage figures that keep getting thrown around by many are actually "95% chance of getting a mild case", not getting NO case.

Since I have had Covid, I should already have the antibodies. Will the vaccine make my body produce more? I have not seen any good studies (provide link if there are) that there is definitive proof that it does?

So why should I personally, with my particular set of circumstances, take the vaccine? If one gets Covid, they usually have a few days to fight it off, take ivermecton, etc. My friend got NO chance from a blood clot. No matter of days.

So what should my decision be? I do not take this lightly.

Quote from Bob#2

I was just notified that a business acquaintance passed away Monday.

55 years old and he seemed to be in good health. Certainly non-smoker, not over weight.

....

Reported death was Covid19 related. His wife told me he specifically died of a blood clot.

Coincidence? Possibly.

Does this prove anything? Not definitively.

Is it cause for concern? Most certainly.

...
So what should my decision be? I do not take this lightly.

Display More

I'm very sorry to hear that.

It's always tough to relate personal experience to statistics.

I *think* that I would go with the science.

Quote from Alan Fletcher

I *think* that I would go with the science.

On closer reading, your request was for proof, which there probably isn't.

Quote from gerold.s

You can check the CDC wonder database...

There seem to be approx. 3600 deaths from 1 - 4/2021 related to a COVID-19 vaccine in the US. >95% of all vaccine related deaths. Can that really be true?

Can someone please check and confirm this. Moderna has the most deaths....

Not true. We have a confirmed report of a death from 3mo ago, that just made it into the db. So they are in some instances behind on the data 3mo - although I cannot speak to why. That means 3600 is a gross underestimate.

Quote from Alan Fletcher

If Wyttenbach doesn't cut out his ad nauseam ad hominems (everyone who disagrees with him is a criminal/cult person), I'm going to filter him.

Noise to signal ratio has become intolerable.

https://www.lenr-forum.com/ignored-users/

"You are not blocking any users at the moment."

Display More

He's the one reason to come to this forum, and as a scientist I fact check him and the signal is strong and the noise is good humor Let's be honest, everyone here has become programmed by the mainframe and you can't distinguish good from very very bad.

Quote from Bob#2

I was just notified that a business acquaintance passed away Monday.

55 years old and he seemed to be in good health. Certainly non-smoker, not over weight.

I last talked to him a little over a week ago and he stated he had just received his "shot". (Vaccination)

I do not know if it was his first or second nor do I know what "brand" it was. I try to not pry into other's private lives and he did not elaborate.

Reported death was Covid19 related. His wife told me he specifically died of a blood clot.

Coincidence? Possibly.

Does this prove anything? Not definitively.

Is it cause for concern? Most certainly.

There have been enough cases that several countries have at least temporarily stopped using certain vaccines.

Regardless as to what some say here, it is NOT all rosy and guaranteed.

I am not an anti-vaxxer. My 91 year old mother asked if she should get vaccinated. I encouraged her to do so.

My 30 year old youngest son asked and I said he should research and make up his own mind, but that I cautioned against it for him. In good health, lives healthy life style AND he had Covid in January. (Like me, a extremely mild case.)

I am not vaccinated and am leaning on not getting one, at least for another year. I take Vit. D, Zinc, Quecetin and have Ivermectin. I had Covid and it was extremely mild. I have not read a convincing study of WHY the vaccine would give me more immunity that my actual contracted case.

So, to those who push the vaccine without questioning, I sincerely ask... what scientific grounds (provide actual study names or links) that you can provide that supports your theory as to why I should get vaccinated.

To those who are questioning the vaccine, I ask the same question... although I am familiar with probably most of the answers. (Positive Ivermectin studies... NO studies showing it dangerous... NO actual factual reports of bad side effects... only "someone says". )

But none the less, perhaps someone has data that I am not aware of.

So here I am.... a known acquaintance has now died from a blood clot shortly after getting vaccinated. This is not some story on CNN or Fox. It is real and personal.

He got vaccinated and died.

I got Covid and had almost no symptoms. If I had not had reported positive Covid contact, I would not even been tested it was so mild.

Why should I get vaccinated? Because millions have done so? Tell my friend that! MORE MILLIONS have gotten Covid and had no bad effects. Stats can go however you want them to!

I do not want to hear "the experts say", because most experts are usually just the people you listen to who support your preconceived ideas. If you say the experts say, then link to actual studies and not write ups by the FDA or WHO without actual data.

Does vaccines keep me from spreading Covid? My understanding is NO, they do not. One still exhales viral particles as the vaccine does not effect the nasal and oral passage ways. Thus the big push for vaccinated people to still wear masks.

Does vaccines prevent me from getting Covid? Not guaranteed and some studies say prevention is actually extremely low percentage. The 95+ percentage figures that keep getting thrown around by many are actually "95% chance of getting a mild case", not getting NO case.

Since I have had Covid, I should already have the antibodies. Will the vaccine make my body produce more? I have not seen any good studies (provide link if there are) that there is definitive proof that it does?

So why should I personally, with my particular set of circumstances, take the vaccine? If one gets Covid, they usually have a few days to fight it off, take ivermecton, etc. My friend got NO chance from a blood clot. No matter of days.

So what should my decision be? I do not take this lightly.

Display More

Bob, this isn't about what the decision should be - it is about knowing the paradigm that is breathing down your neck. Turn off the tv, turn off the programming, step away from the media. Get yourself Ivermectin and live your life as unimpeded as you can.
In my experience, it is about 1/100 scientists who can really withstand this level of propoganda - which is why most physicians have intellectually folded and just shuffle along waiting for orders.

Stop worrying about your death and live. It is a morbid death cult - the kind the freemasons are in - that continues to broadcast cases and deaths on the tv every minute. This is a human disgrace. People in another era lived, what 40 years. They did not sit every moment locked in their houses waiting for the govt to protect them. This is pathology, it is sick, and we should all be ashamed. I include myself in this.

Maybe this will help: