You are ignorant and wrong about the science when you say herd immunity cannot be achieved, because it has been achieved.
Fools cannot be taught same for early dementia. Sad to see!
There never can be herd immunity for a respiratory virus that targets outer = air exposed mucosa. This only works for "inner" virus. As e.g. Hepatitis.
There never can be herd immunity for a respiratory virus that targets outer = air exposed mucosa. This only works for "inner" virus. As e.g. Hepatitis.
I beg to differ, at least in the case of bacterial infections like B.Pertussis (Whooping Cough) Since routine Pertussis vaccination for infants was introduced in the UK the number of notified 'lab confirmed' cases in the UK dropped from 173,330 in 1941 with 2,383 deaths (a particularly bad year) to 712 with 2 deaths in 2000.
See page 14 of this document ... https://assets.publishing.serv…ussis_in_England_2019.pdf
There never can be herd immunity for a respiratory virus that targets outer = air exposed mucosa.
As I pointed out, herd immunity has actually been achieved in the UK and Israel. The virus is on the verge of extinction in the human population. If these countries were isolated from the rest of the world, it would go extinct. They have not yet vaccinated 100% of the population, so this is due to herd immunity.
It is mind boggling that you and others deny this when anyone can see it is true from the graphs and data. It is like the old joke: "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?"
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/
Some experts fear the vaccines may not reach ~70% of the world population quickly enough to drive it into extinction. It may mutate before that happens. A reformulated vaccine will then be needed, and another after that, and so on. That would be a terrible shame. It would be better for wealthy nations to increase production as much as possible and vaccinate the entire world population. That would save millions of lives. It would be ultimately save money for the wealthy nations.
I beg to differ, at least in the case of bacterial infections like B.Pertussis (Whooping Cough) Since routine Pertussis
Sad to tell you: I once linked paper about a super spreading event linked to vaccinated children. Thus no immunity here too. Passive carrier of virus at best.Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease butfail to prevent infection and transmission ina nonhuman primate model.pdf
Also to mention: It's not a virus....
Not you. Wyttenbach, and several right-wing politicians and some commentators at Fox News.
You are ignorant and wrong about the science when you say herd immunity cannot be achieved, because it has been achieved. You are wrong about other things, listed above. But as far as I know, you are not opposed to the use of vaccines. The Death Cult members are people who oppose vaccines, masks and other public health measures. Many of them deny there is a pandemic. Some claim the death rate is much lower than reported, when in fact it is much higher, as shown by excess deaths.
Well thanks not in the death cult, but you and your experts using the vaccine as a reason for the drop n cases is pure crap. They are dropping, just like a year ago and about at the same pace, because Covid is seasonal. Come September that should be pretty clear to you and your experts!
I beg to differ, at least in the case of bacterial infections like B.Pertussis (Whooping Cough) Since routine Pertussis vaccination for infants was introduced in the UK the number of notified 'lab confirmed' cases in the UK dropped from 173,330 in 1941 with 2,383 deaths (a particularly bad year) to 712 with 2 deaths in 2000.
See page 14 of this document ... https://assets.publishing.serv…ussis_in_England_2019.pdf
You might want to look to the present. Since 2000 the UK has had a couple of big outbreaks. The vaccine used only protects against the cough not the disease, nor transmission. Similar to our present Covid jabs
Well thanks not in the death cult, but you and your experts using the vaccine as a reason for the drop n cases is pure crap. They are dropping, just like a year ago and about at the same pace, because Covid is seasonal.
COVID is not seasonal. It is now hitting South America as hard as India and the rest of the Northern Hemisphere. The peaks of COVID infections in China, Japan and Korea came at different seasons, and they correlated with public health measures such as masking and case tracking, and partial lockdowns in Japan.
The drop in the UK and Israel began immediately after vaccines began, and it has fallen much farther that it did in previous declines. The previous declinese were not seasonal. They correlated exactly with public health measures. The increases correlate with letting up on the measures. The ones in Japan were triggered by national holidays and deliberate government policy. Doctors and experts all urged the government not to let up, but it ignored their recommendations. The present continuing high level in Japan is caused by the fact that only 2.6% of the population has been vaccinated, most of that recently. (Infection rates are high compared to where they were for the last year, but much lower than in the U.S.)
Public health measures such as lockdowns cause tremendous harm financially and in other ways, and they are only a temporary stopgap. As soon as you let up on them, the virus begins to return. The only way to permanently stop it is with herd immunity. Either ~70% of the population gets the disease and millions die, or you vaccinate 70%. A vaccine causes no harm and costs virtually nothing, so it is better than any other method.
he vaccine used only protects against the cough not the disease, nor transmission.
That is not how antibodies work. They stop infection. Immunity whether naturally acquired or from a vaccination stops you from getting the disease, and that prevents you from transmitting it. If that were not true, herd immunity would not work. Everyone would eventually get it. Every wild bird in an infected population would die from bird influenza. After you get an infectious disease such as the measles or mumps, that gives you lifelong antibodies. You are immune and you do not get it again. It is a once-in-lifetime experience for most people. You don't get it again, and you do not ever transmit it. Thanks to natural immunity in the past, and vaccines today.
Also, if vaccines did not prevent transmission, the disease would not be on the verge of extinction in Israel. Only 63% of the population there has been vaccinated. If vaccinated people were still contagious, the other 40% of the population would still be getting sick. Virtually no one there is getting sick, and no one is dying. Cases there have declined from 10,000 to 20, and deaths from 78 to zero, corresponding exactly with the vaccinations. That cannot be a coincidence.
Also, it is winter in Israel, and the decline has been in the coldest season of the year there. The decline in the UK began in the dead of winter and is just finishing up now, approaching zero, while it is still chilly there. Granted, Israel is not cold compared to most countries, but English weather is miserable all year long. If bad weather or winter cold were correlated with COVID, England would be depopulated over the winter, but instead cases were dropping precipitously. So your claim that this is seasonal is wrong. Granted the UK data may show a seasonal element contribution, but that was overwhelmed by the effects of the vaccine.
In the southern hemisphere the severity of the outbreak has been highest during summer. So if there is a seasonal contribution, it is overwhelmed by other elements. In South America these other elements were disastrous public health decisions and government mismanagement.
COVID is not seasonal. It is now hitting South America as hard as India and the rest of the Northern Hemisphere. The peaks of COVID infections in China, Japan and Korea came at different seasons, and they correlated with public health measures such as masking and case tracking, and partial lockdowns in Japan.
The drop in the UK and Israel began immediately after vaccines began, and it has fallen much farther that it did in previous declines. The previous declinese were not seasonal. They correlated exactly with public health measures. The increases correlate with letting up on the measures. The ones in Japan were triggered by national holidays and deliberate government policy. Doctors and experts all urged the government not to let up, but it ignored their recommendations. The present continuing high level in Japan is caused by the fact that only 2.6% of the population has been vaccinated, most of that recently. (Infection rates are high compared to where they were for the last year, but much lower than in the U.S.)
Public health measures such as lockdowns cause tremendous harm financially and in other ways, and they are only a temporary stopgap. As soon as you let up on them, the virus begins to return. The only way to permanently stop it is with herd immunity. Either ~70% of the population gets the disease and millions die, or you vaccinate 70%. A vaccine causes no harm and costs virtually nothing, so it is better than any other method.
From the ministry of propaganda, and politically appointed pencil pushing experts!
now hitting south America, of coarse it's hitting south America its fall going into winter Einstein. Seasonal!!!
now hitting south America,
Covid is not seasonal in fortress Australia.. which threatens to lock up its citizens for 5 years for returning from India.
https://www.theage.com.au/nati…e-pm-20210507-p57pvl.html
Right now the NSW state government has its knickers in a twist over the one case of Covid..
they had in two weeks
they can't find the missing link.
bees used to test for Covid
Display MoreCovid is not seasonal in fortress Australia.. which threatens to lock up its citizens for 5 years for returning from India.
https://www.theage.com.au/nati…e-pm-20210507-p57pvl.html
Right now the NSW state government has its knickers in a twist over the one case of Covid..
they had in two weeks
they can't find the missing link.
Yes once you rejoin the rest of the world Covid will be seasonal in Australia too
From the ministry of propaganda, and politically appointed pencil pushing experts!
People have known for thousands of years that after you get measles, mumps or the pox, you never get it again. You can nurse people who are sick with these diseases but you will not get sick yourself. You will not give your children the sickness. If they get the measles, you never need to fear you will get it from them. This is common knowledge. It does not apply to all diseases. You can get a cold every year. But it does apply to measles and COVID. There is no doubt about that.
Since 1890, the mechanism that prevents re-infection has been understood. It is the antibody system. If we did not have that antibodies, everyone would die from minor infections, such as a small scratch. When the antibody system itself is compromised, for example with AIDS or chemotherapy, people do die from minor infections.
This is not propaganda. It is common sense. It has been common sense for thousands of years. Did you not know this? Or do you deny it for some strange reason? You need to reorient your comments to reality.
now hitting south America, of coarse it's hitting south America its fall going into winter Einstein. Seasonal!!!
No, it is not now hitting South America. It was bad all year long in Brazil. It began to increase in spring, and has peaked in summer.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/brazil/
Furthermore, as you see in the UK, the decline began in the dead of winter, when vaccines began:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk
You need to stop arguing with facts that anyone can see are true. You need to stop denying things people have known for thousands of years. It makes you look foolish.
Now the CDC plans on limiting investigations into breakthrough cases? The people looking out for our best interests?
CDC Limits Review of Vaccinated but Infected; Draws Concern
https://www.bloomberg.com/news…nfected-spurring-concerns
Federal health officials this month decided to limit how they monitor vaccinated people who have been infected with Covid-19, drawing concern from some scientists who say that may mean missing needed data showing why and how it happens.
At the end of April, more than 9,000 Americans were reported to be infected after being vaccinated, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. While that’s a tiny percentage of the 95 million people fully inoculated at the time, researchers still want to find out what specific mechanisms may be spurring the infections.
Rare breakthrough cases are expected since no vaccines are 100% effective. But tracking and sequencing the cases helps in figuring out who may be more at risk, whether new variants evade the vaccines and when protection from the shots begins to wane. At the same time, those infected -- some of whom are suffering widespread medical issues, even if they’re not hospitalized -- say they feel lost as a result of the lack of information.
“We shouldn’t be narrowing the focus, we should be broadening and develop a systematic plan,” said Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in La Jolla.
At the start of May, the CDC shifted from monitoring all reported breakthroughs to only those that result in hospitalization or death, Tom Clark, head of the vaccine evaluation unit for the CDC’s vaccine task force, said in an interview. The goal of the new strategy, according to the agency: maximize the quality of data collected on cases.
Yes once you rejoin the rest of the world Covid will be seasonal in Australia too
If the Australians are vaccinated, COVID will be wiped out, as it has been in Israel and the UK. It has declined precipitously over the winter in the U.S. as well. Do you deny that it has been wiped out in Israel? Have you looked the graphs? Anyone who looks at them will see that what you claim is nonsense. It is gone, and that population will never be infected by these strains again, whatever the season might be.
Do you deny that people with antibodies never get or transmit a disease? How do you think we wiped out polio and smallpox?
Now the CDC plans on limiting investigations into breakthrough cases? The people looking out for our best interests?
CDC Limits Review of Vaccinated but Infected; Draws Concern
You should quote more of the article. It goes on to say:
At the start of May, the CDC shifted from monitoring all reported breakthroughs to only those that result in hospitalization or death, Tom Clark, head of the vaccine evaluation unit for the CDC’s vaccine task force, said in an interview. The goal of the new strategy, according to the agency: maximize the quality of data collected on cases. . . .
The CDC says its numbers are probably an undercount, since their surveillance system is passive and relies on voluntary reporting from state health departments that may not be complete.
The agency shifted its strategy because there’s few worrying patterns in the data collected so far, suggesting the focus should be on the most severe cases, Clark said. He added that the agency has planned other vaccine studies, including one with a network of health centers, to compare disease severity and frequency of variant infections between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
END QUOTE
That is not ideal, but given the limitations of budget and expert people, it is reasonable. They will continue to investigate serious breakthrough cases that result in hospitalizations. A targeted approach that "maximizes the quality of data" is good. It is not as if they will stop studying breakthrough cases completely.
Display MoreYou should quote more of the article. It goes on to say:
At the start of May, the CDC shifted from monitoring all reported breakthroughs to only those that result in hospitalization or death, Tom Clark, head of the vaccine evaluation unit for the CDC’s vaccine task force, said in an interview. The goal of the new strategy, according to the agency: maximize the quality of data collected on cases. . . .
The CDC says its numbers are probably an undercount, since their surveillance system is passive and relies on voluntary reporting from state health departments that may not be complete.
The agency shifted its strategy because there’s few worrying patterns in the data collected so far, suggesting the focus should be on the most severe cases, Clark said. He added that the agency has planned other vaccine studies, including one with a network of health centers, to compare disease severity and frequency of variant infections between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
END QUOTE
That is not ideal, but given the limitations of budget and expert people, it is reasonable. They will continue to investigate serious breakthrough cases that result in hospitalizations. A targeted approach that "maximizes the quality of data" is good. It is not as if they will stop studying breakthrough cases complete
This is an experimental emergency use authorized vaccine! Each and every case must be investigated. You think the vaccines should be granted permeant status based on 5 months of data. You and the CDC are misguided as most experts say. I say you are just nuts. Old age snuck up.
Let's turn the temperature down a bit. We are looking for excess heat, but not this kind.
This is an experimental emergency use authorized vaccine! Each and every case must be investigated.
Investigated how much? For how many hours? Should all mild cases be investigated as much as severe cases? They are all recorded of course, with medical reports as available. Do you think that as many hours should be devoted to a mild case as a fatal case? That makes no sense.
It is not possible to do comprehensive studies of each patient. There are 9,200 breakthrough cases. There are not many people at the CDC. There are many other serious problems with COVID that have to be investigated, and with other diseases. You have to let the experts decide how best to spend their time and resources. They cannot possibly do everything that -- ideally -- they would like to see done.
You think the vaccines should be granted permeant status based on 5 months of data.
Actually, it is 20 years of data. mRNA vaccines were developed 20 years ago, and given on an experimental basis to many animals and people. No harm from them has been observed. More to the point, the 5 months of data is FAR more comprehensive and detailed than the data from any previous vaccine. The volume of data measured in bytes probably exceeds all previous data from all previous vaccines in history. There is a mountain of data for two reasons:
There has not been a single confirmed fatality with the mRNA vaccines, despite searching with supercomputer tools that are far more likely to spot an anomaly than previous methods. This gives the experts confidence that the vaccine is safe. It kills fewer than 1 in 600 million, which is much better than most vaccines. So, I would say we have better reasons to certify this permanently than we had for any previous vaccine, despite the relatively short time it has been deployed. Time is not the only parameter. As I said, the volume of data and the number of people vaccinated are also parameters, and arguably more important.
An emergency mRNA vaccine was authorized for SARS years ago. It was used on a very limited basis. In the end, it was not needed. It was never given to millions of people, or hundreds of millions. Our confidence in that vaccine should be far lower than the COVID vaccine, because there is hardly any data or people who got it.
