Jed's anti-ivermectin ecological comparisons just show that you can prove anything unde the sun comparing different countries, there are so many factors that effect current infection rates and R values.
which is why the pro-ivermectin ones are so silly.
Jed's anti-ivermectin ecological comparisons just show that you can prove anything unde the sun comparing different countries, there are so many factors that effect current infection rates and R values.
I wasn't being anti-ivermectin so much as pro-vaccine. I think the data from different S. American countries shows a clear correlation between high vaccination rates and low numbers of cases and deaths. Actually, I cannot find any estimate of ivermectin use in these countries. Except for one report about Venezuela from last year, which I linked to above.
Brazil and other countries with vaccination rates similar to the U.S. have very different curves compared to the U.S. They are all going down steadily, with no new waves. I have no idea why. I suppose there are many environmental and perhaps political reasons. So, having approximately the same number of vaccinations per capita does not mean you have the same curves of infections or deaths. It is more complicated than that.
Rachel Maddow, liberal media figures slammed for 'taking the bait' on false story about ivermectin overdoses
Journalist Drew Holden calls out Maddow, Rolling Stone and many more
A number of mainstream media figures and outlets appear to have been fooled by a false story that some Oklahoma hospitals were overwhelmed with patients having overdosed on the drug ivermectin, a parasite-fighting medication that can also be sold over the counter as a veterinary drug.
The story, which was originally reported at Oklahoma's KFOR-TV news, quoted testimony from Dr. Jason McElyea claiming that hospitals in a rural part of Oklahoma were being overrun with patients overdosing on the drug, causing gunshot victims to having to wait to be treated.
It was later deemed false after the Northeastern Hospital System denied any patients were treated for overdoses from the drug and that McElyea hadn't actually worked at one of the hospitals in question for two months.
ROLLING STONE FORCED TO ISSUE AN ‘UPDATE’ AFTER VIRAL HOSPITAL IVERMECTIN STORY TURNS OUT TO BE FALSE
In a series of tweets and articles flagged by journalist Drew Holden, well-known liberal media figures, like MSNBC host Rachel Maddow, and prominent outlets like Rolling Stone shared and reported on the false story for their millions of viewers and followers, with no apparent action being taken by Twitter to combat the misinformation.
"We’ve got to talk about the Rolling Stone invermectin (sic) article. Turns out the story about rural hospitals so flooded with ODs that they couldn’t treat other patients was made up, entirely invented. A lot of people took the bait, and I’ve got the screenshots," Holden tweeted, referencing Rolling Stone publishing their own piece on the false story, one of the first following the original reporting.
Holden specifically pointed to liberal media figures like Maddow and podcast host Brian Tyler Cohen, as well as various other writers and contributors as those spreading the misinformation, and questioned why they didn't look further into the story that seemed questionable from the beginning.
"[Maddow] had a tweet about it that went viral. She’s got an audience of millions of people and couldn’t be bothered to even look into a story that pretty obviously doesn’t pass the sniff test," he wrote.
As of Monday morning, Maddow's tweet was still up.
Holden also called out a number of media outlets for spreading the misinformation, including Business Insider, The Guardian, the Daily Mail and left-wing news site the Daily Kos.
"I just really don’t understand why seemingly real news outlets … didn’t bother to even look into this story before they pushed this narrative? Didn’t it sound odd? Wasn’t it worth investigating? Maybe a single phone call?" he wrote.
Corrections to the story have yet to be made by some of the outlets and individuals, however Rolling Stone issued an "update" over the weekend, noting the hospital system's denial of the story.
The FDA and CDC have warned against the use of ivermectin to treat the coronavirus, issuing a statement cautioning Americans that it is not an approved drug for the treatment or prevention of the virus.
The in vivo evidence of anti-viral action is negative at achievable concentrations
Repeating FUD does not produce any truth. Did you look at the virus concentration in vitro? I guess not as you really understand nothing except playing the free masons propaganda trumpet...
So when you have shown that a drug does not kill COVID except at much higher concentrations than it is able to be safely prescribed it is not good identifying specific not clearly quantitative mechanisms for its antiviral action.
Only two year old brabble all the day the same nonsense...
What you reference did not look at what happened with CoV-19. It was not a live cell test with (stopped..) replication...
Ivermectin: A potential ally in Indonesia’s pandemic battle
Indonesia reports the highest cumulative number of COVID-19 infections in South-East Asia, with 4,100,138 positive cases. The Delta variant has fueled the biggest outbreaks, with Indonesia a major epicenter. To date, 133,676 people have died in Indonesia from COVID-19. The daily mortality toll in Indonesia has decreased from its peak in July, but it remains high.
Cases Underreported?
Many experts think COVID-19 cases are significantly underreported. Reuters reports 15% of Indonesians have already been infected with coronavirus, far greater than the government’s estimate of 0.4%. Indonesia’s president, Joko “Jokowi” Widodo, revealed in the early days of the outbreak that his administration had decided not to release complete statistics, to try to prevent panic.
According to some public health specialists, government officials often distort national-level data to justify pro-business policies, but Atik Choirul Hidajah, chairman of the epidemiology department and lecturer in public health at Airlangga University in Surabaya, says this mismatch in the data is due to a lack of laboratory testing capability, including a paucity of supplies and people.
Vaccine Procurement
Indonesia is a major buyer of China’s Sinovac vaccine, which has a dubious track record against the Delta strain. In April through June, it was discovered that the Sinovac vaccine was less efficient in preventing against death and severe sickness than in the preceding three months (January-March). From April to June, the shots prevented 79% of deaths and 53% of hospitalizations, compared to 95% and 74% in January to March. “This suggests that the Delta variation elevates the dangers for healthcare professionals while still offering protection,” said Siti Nadia Tarmizi, spokesperson for Indonesia’s ministry of health.
Nearly one third of Indonesian adults have received first dose
The Indonesian government launched its vaccination program on January 13, 2021. It is in four phases, with healthcare personnel receiving the first batch of vaccines, followed by government employees, then the general population. The government’s national vaccination target is 208,265,720 people by the end of 2021. This number excludes children below the age of 12, and groups that cannot be vaccinated for health reasons. According to the COVID-19 Vaccination Data, first dose vaccinations have been delivered to nearly 64 million people, or 30% of the target number, with 36 million (17%) having received two doses, as of September 1. In July, Indonesia began vaccinating those aged between 12 and 18.
Anti-parasitic drug being tested for Covid efficacy
Ivermectin, used to treat certain parasitic roundworm infections, is mooted as a potential COVID-19 prescription. Interest is increasing, possibly due to the high transmissibility of the Delta variant.
The Indonesian government has capped sale prices of ivermectin, along with ten other drugs that have been in demand during the pandemic. Eight hospitals in Indonesia have received a permit to start clinical trials to evaluate the potential benefit of ivermectin in treating COVID-19, but the drug is still not licensed for use in cases outside of those trials.
Whilst not completely banning off-license use, the Food and Drug Supervisory Agency (BPOM) declared that such cases would need individual approval from the implementing Health Board. Treatment would have to be carried out at the health facility indicated by the Health Board, in line with the protocols used in the clinical trials.
Ivermectin Production Cut
The BPOM recently shut down the production of Ivermex 12 and recalled it from the market, citing several breaches of protocol. The government turned to a state-run pharmaceutical company, preparing 4.5 million ivermectin doses for the clinical trials and anticipation of its therapeutic use thereafter. The BPOM continues to conduct spot-checks of both online and offline pharmacies, to ensure ivermectin is not being sold without a prescription.
Note that Ivermex is produced by PT Harsen laboratories. TrialSite reported in “Does Power & Vaccine Politics Lead to State Usurpation of Ivermectin license” that the company was off-label distributing the drug to combat COVID-19 but was halted when the national regulatory BPOM yanked the license.
Global views on Ivermectin
TrialSite has provided what we hope is a more objective review of the drug, ongoing studies as well as its current status. See the TrialSite ivermectin fact sheet for a summary.
New infections have fallen dramatically—But is Data Accurate?
Since July 15, the rate of new cases in Indonesia has fallen 78%.
“The number of active cases, hospital bed occupancy rates, and Covid mortality have all decreased in Jakarta as a result of the restriction’s effective implementation and increased vaccination coverage,” said Pandu Riono, an epidemiologist from the University of Indonesia, as reported in the Guardian.
However, the government has come under criticism for their handling of the data. On August 9, local news reported that regional COVID-19 death rates would no longer be published due to concerns about the accuracy of the data. Leading epidemiologist Dicky Budiman criticized the move, saying that taking steps to improve accuracy would have been a better move.
Local people have a more cynical view. The Indonesian government has agreed to cover the medical costs of COVID-19 cases, paying up to 130 million Rupiah (US $9,000) for each patient hospitalized with the infection. Misdiagnoses have been reported, with many more suspected but unproven. It is conceivable that the drop in reported COVID-19 cases since the start of the vaccination campaign reflects a new cautiousness when it comes to diagnosis.
When the national vaccination target is reached, Indonesia intends to launch chargeable booster shots. “The price will be around 100,000 rupiahs (US $7) for each shot,” said the health minister, Budi Gunadi Sadikin. Under the government-sponsored health insurance program, known as BPJS, future vaccine doses would not be free except for the poor
Call to Action: TrialSite will continue to provide national and regional summaries and takes requests from the community.
Leading Indian epidemiologists say they can explain the data, and they say it has nothing to do with ivermectin. They say this is the natural course of an epidemic. The curve is what you would expect from local herd immunity. The reported rates of infection and death were too low for herd immunity, but the epidemiologists conducted independent antibody tests. They found the actual infection rate was far higher than reported (I recall it was 10 to 20 times higher), and it was enough to reach herd immunity.
With CoV-19 delta you need about 99.5..99.8% infected for her immunity. Vaccinated does not help. Look at Israel. No India state has this level.
The state officials in India are big pharma bribed. India itself does (did) not recommend Ivermectin. So they now have troubles to explain the outraging success of the Ivermectin therapy in all states that employed it early enough.
DO also not forget their WHO buddy has been arrested for promoting mass murder by blocking Ivermectin. So they must construct an alibi.
For me I admit it is not even a question, the virus was more deadly than my former practice of skydiving,
Please stop promoting FUD. Read the UK report 22 -linked before. The vaccines no longer reduces death among people age > 50! The vaccines don't stop any infection with Delta. Almost all death among people age <35 is caused by the underlying illness not by CoV-19. The vaccines prevent no death among younger. In Israel at least 25 younger (age < 25) have been killed by the vaccine this is already >2x more than you claim vaccines would prevent!
XXXXXXXX
Jed's anti-ivermectin ecological comparisons just show that you can prove anything unde the sun comparing different countries,
Not! It's easier to bribe a unknown doctor in the southern pampa...than one in USA.
Repeating FUD does not produce any truth. Did you look at the virus concentration in vitro?
My post specifically quoted a research paper which cites Caly et al and mentions this, making the correct comparison with in vivo drug levels after a given dose? I used that and the FLCC dose to show that based on this Caly et al strongly predicts no anti-viral action against COVID.
The first (most signiifcant) in vitro evidence you quote is Caly et al. Put in context here
Caly et al.10 report a 5,000-fold reduction in SARS-CoV-2 RNA levels, compared with those in controls, after infected Vero/hSLAM cells were incubated for 48 hours with 5 μM ivermectin. The ivermectin IC50 for the virus was calculated at approximately 2.5 μM. These concentrations are the equivalent of 4,370 and 2,190 ng/mL, respectively, notably 50- to 100-fold the peak concentration (Cmax) achieved in plasma after the single dose of 200 μg/kg (14 mg in a 70-kg adult) commonly used for the control of onchocerchiasis.12 Pharmacokinetic studies in healthy volunteers have suggested that single doses up to 120 mg of ivermectin can be safe and well tolerated.13 However, even with this dose, which is 10-fold greater than those approved by the US Food and Drug Administration, the Cmax values reported were ∼250 ng/mL,13 one order of magnitude lower than effective in vitro concentrations against SARS-CoV-2.FLCC recommend 400ug/kg to 500ug/kg - still 25-50X lower than the EQ50 dose here.
In vitro evidence is unreliable - this does not rule it out. But it makes it look a poor bet and certainly cannot be positive evidence for it.
My post specifically quoted a research paper which cites Caly et al and mentions this
Only children site research papers line by line without understanding what these lines mean.
Are you aware of the 5000x reduction? In reality you need just to stop reproduction = no reduction at all needed. In reality virus enter the cell and that was it as Ivermectin stops the reproduction. So as soon as you see a reduction it is end of test!
Did you never learn that virus usually multiply inside body and show an exponential growth?
So may be once may you grasp it...?
But I guess as a free masons trumpet you will 10x more repeat your childish FUD.
Are you aware of the 5000x reduction
yes, it was what you expect get at 2X IC50. This is relative to the viral level in controls, and happens when cells die, or do not reproduce as well. No evidence of which it is.
IC50 means - loosely, the level of the drug at which viral exponential growth is halved (see defn below).
Whereas at 1/25 of IC50 you get the virus replicating as normal. As you say, exponential growth at the normal rate.
This in vitro evidence is not certain negative. I've not said. I am saying that it is not evidence of useful anti-viral activity.
But don't listen to me, read Chacour et al, which I quoted.
EDIT and
50% of what? How exactly are IC50 and EC50 defined? - FAQ 1356 - GraphPad
I used the term EC50, which is relative IC50, and what was used here. I'm going back to Chacour et al term, but need to state it is relative, as they do.
Did you never learn that virus usually multiply inside body and show an exponential growth?
So may be once may you grasp it...?
But I guess as a free masons trumpet you will 10x more repeat your childish FUD.
I have noticed in your posts that the more you don't understand, the more you insult others.
Given total quantity of insults that is a big lack of understanding.
Why in the World Is the Government Disrupting the Distribution of Monoclonal Antibodies Now?
After demonizing nearly every medication with the potential to reduce the severity of COVID-19 symptoms, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) finally recommended monoclonal antibodies earlier this summer. Before the official recommendation, some providers used them under an emergency use authorization (EUA) granted by the FDA in November 2020. The FDA just granted an EUA to allow their use for SARS-CoV-2 post-exposure and ongoing prophylaxis. This approval will increase demand.
Recently, the treatment has gotten quite a bit of media coverage. While the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has been promoting the treatment on the Combat Covid website since early summer, one man ensured a nationwide media campaign. Once Florida Governor Ron DeSantis decided to promote outpatient treatment using the antibodies and establish infusion centers, the media reacted because he is a very dangerous Republican.
Related: Only Ron DeSantis Would Get Criticized for Doing Exactly What Biden’s HHS Wants
During the week leading into the Labor Day holiday, DeSantis was on the road again, touting the success of Florida’s program in disconnecting COVID-19 infection from hospitalization in the state. Patients gave personal testimony about their experience with the treatment. Hospitalizations in the state declined 20% during the first few weeks the infusion centers were up and running. Then something interesting happened.
On Friday, someone who claimed to be an urgent care specialist tweeted that HHS had informed him that the government would now decide which facilities would receive doses of monoclonal antibodies. Jim Jackson wrote: “So now the government is getting involved in [read: restricting] monoclonal antibody distribution. Before, I could just order as much as we needed, and they shipped it next day air. Now a govt. commission will decide when, if, and how much I will be able to get for my pts [patients]. ‘Should you have any questions regarding this update in ordering and distribution procedures, please email the Federal COVID-19 Response Team.’ Wonderful.”
He added the alert from HHS that confirmed his assertion. Now, only facilities participating in the HHS Protect program can order the treatment, and the agency will review all orders. Suppose the current distribution map provided by HHS includes the HHS Protect facilities. In that case, the new order review process seems like a heavy administrative burden for the program. It may delay or limit treatment for at-risk patients.
Monoclonal antibodies are approved and recommended for outpatient use. HHS instructs patients who qualify to access them within ten days of symptom onset. Regeneron also has FDA approval to be used post-exposure and for prevention. All approved uses are time-dependent and not conducive to a burdensome order review process. The timing of the change in how health providers access them is curious.
If the supply is genuinely so constrained that the federal government needs to get involved in decisions about distribution, the question should be why. The use of monoclonal antibodies is restricted and only provided for specific at-risk groups. By managing and approving distribution, HHS insulates the manufacturers from actual market demand. Now, some at-risk vaccinated as well as unvaccinated patients require effective treatment, and it is constrained. If new variants emerge and become dominant, that trend may continue.
To date, therapeutics and repurposed medications to reduce disease severity have been underemphasized and even demonized. Monoclonal antibodies made it through all the noise and President Trump’s endorsement. It is time for the federal response to encourage increased production of monoclonal antibodies, challenge manufacturers to develop formulations against variants of concern, and get them in the hands of practitioners.
Good article by Al Jazeera. I read them often now. Here they report on how the severe lockdown in Vietnam is not working as COVID is still spiraling out of control. People are starving yet the lockdown goes on unabated.
Here they report on how the severe lockdown in Vietnam is not working as COVID is still spiraling out of control.
They have only managed to vaccinate 10% of the population. How awful. They had everything under control until Delta arrived. That goes to show what a new variant can do. A variant might show up that does the same thing to Europe, Japan or the U.S. We will lock ourselves down if that happens, as they have done in India lately. People will be afraid to leave their homes. Society will break down.
Let us hope the vaccines continue to work against any new variant.
I have noticed in your posts that the more you don't understand, the more you insult others.
You live in a state of total self deception. Do you understand what LD50 means?? may be take once some basic classes first before
you start brabbeling..
Let us hope the vaccines continue to work against any new variant.
I would switch to prayers in your case. All statistics clearly show the vaccines after about 4 months do no longer work against delta.
I repeat it for you:
The only problem that will remain is vaccinated that never got a natural infection.
See Figure 12 : https://assets.publishing.serv…Technical_Briefing_20.pdf
Double vaccinated have a lower CT value than single vaccinated !!! This means higher virus load with delta what is a clear sign of ADE, that could become much worse with new variants.
So in the near future we will only see CoV-19 deaths among once double, triple, quadruple vaccinated due to ADE to new mutations.
A leading Swiss doctor in a today's state radio interview just said that we have to entrust natural immunity. He also explained that the lockdown caused an explosive growth of RSV infections among children world wide. It's time that the fear mongers like you and THH go out of the way.
Vaccine terror state Israel
totally fails!
World record infection rate also among 2x fully vaccinated. Most likely because they used the most crappy vaccine on the market. The steep increase among vaccinated is most likely due to booster induced CoV-19 that already during the vaccination phase killed about 1000 Israeli by Pfizer crap induced CoV-19. So let's see how many have been killed by the booster (--> induces CoV-19 due to immune suppression and ADE) once we have the data.
The steep increase among vaccinated is most likely due to booster induced CoV-19
or perhaps not...
Twelve days or more after a booster dose of vaccine made by Pfizer Inc. and its partner BioNTech SE, the risk of a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection decreased 11.4-fold relative to people given only two jabs, researchers from Israel’s Ministry of Health and key scientific institutes found. A third dose was associated with at least a 10-fold reduction in the risk of falling seriously ill, according to the research released Friday.
The new mRNA vaccines can be changed rapidly. Within weeks, if necessary, and they will not need FDA approval.
As often stated here, the mRNA vaccines are supposedly "fast" (a relative term I understand) to re-engineer for mutated variants.
However, I hear a lot about boosters and Israel has even started. Yet they are using the same, unmodified vaccine.
The Delta variant has been around now for months... why has not the vaccines been modified... or are they / have they and I missed it somewhere? I have not even seen any articles stating they were working on a revised version. So what is the deal here?
Is it that "not vaccinating during a pandemic" is even less problematic than "changing the vaccine during a pandemic"? I am not stating this, simply asking the question. If a mRNA strength was it's fast and easy modification, why has this not been done for Delta? Or was this trait simply exaggerated?
It is clear this pandemic is not being won and cases are increasing dramatically again, in spite of the the heralded vaccine roll out. However, the facts are, the world wide cases are not much different than last year when no vaccines were available. They are not making the world impact some here trumpet. I am not saying this, World O Meter is. Yes, there will be many excuses given, but the fact is shown below. Last year versus this year is not much different. Vaccines or no, lock downs or no, the cases are very similar. 5.52 BILLION doses have been given world wide and yet the stats show little effect. 2.9 BILLION people have been fully vaccinated and yet World o Meter shows little effect. Yes, I understand what some will say...and Israel data would disagree with them. India data will disagree with them. UK and US data will disagree with them.
We can spin it however we like... however, world wide, the pandemic is not being impacted much. More cases and more deaths now. Unless a different approach is taken, I do not see it changing much. Booster shots of the same vaccine is certainly not the answer if 5.52 billion doses (40% of the world population is fully vaccinated) did not make much of an impact.
how many covid vaccines have been given world wide - Google Suche
World wide
World wide
USA
The Delta variant has been around now for months... why has not the vaccines been modified... or are they / have they and I missed it somewhere? I have not even seen any articles stating they were working on a revised version. So what is the deal here?
LONDON, July 21 (Reuters) - Two doses of Pfizer (PFE.N) or AstraZeneca's (AZN.L) COVID-19 vaccine are nearly as effective against the highly transmissible Delta coronavirus variant as they are against the previously dominant Alpha variant, a study published on Wednesday showed.
Officials say vaccines are highly effective against the Delta variant, now the dominant variant worldwide, though the study reiterated that one shot of the vaccines is not enough for high protection.
The study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, confirms headline findings given by Public Health England in May about the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca (AZN.L), based on real-world data.
Wednesday's study found that two doses of Pfizer's shot was 88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease from the Delta variant, compared to 93.7% against the Alpha variant, broadly the same as previously reported.
However, I hear a lot about boosters and Israel has even started. Yet they are using the same, unmodified vaccine.
The Delta variant has been around now for months... why has not the vaccines been modified... or are they / have they and I missed it somewhere?
Bob#2 - I remember Pfizer and Moderna said they were all ready to develop and grow a delta modded version. They needed to be told this was wanted, and it would then take 3 months or something to availability.
The situation now:
“The ongoing booster trial is evaluating the safety and tolerability of the current BNT162b2 vaccine. While we believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants, including Delta, we are remaining vigilant and are also developing an updated version of the vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant. The first batch of the mRNA for the trial has already been manufactured, and we anticipate the clinical studies to begin in August, subject to regulatory approvals.”
So they have this, but as always safety rules: they need to go through clinical testing, which will take 2 months at least.
Maybe that is one reason why the UK seems to want to delay boosters.
It is clear this pandemic is not being won and cases are increasing dramatically again, in spite of the the heralded vaccine roll out. However, the facts are, the world wide cases are not much different than last year when no vaccines were available. They are not making the world impact some here trumpet.
Personally I'm just glad the vaccine makes things a lot safer for my father, my wife, me, my colleagues, etc...
We use Flu vaccines that way, and that is the nearest analogy. It is not the sort of virus likely to be 100% wipable out, although that remains a hope and with broader vaccines, eventually used worldwide, who knows?
The true promise from the vaccines is they would allow us to get on with our lives with minimal precautions and without the health service collapsing. That is what they do at the moment in the UK, and the difference between now and last year.
COVID rates will go up and down - as long as not too many people die that is OK, the higher they are the quicker the extra immunity from this makes them burn out.
We would all like a better vaccine - the ones we have are still better than might have been expected given the speed at which they were developed.
THH
