Quote from THHuxleynew

anti-vaxers maybe think llamas are cuddly

They look cuddly but I gather they can be mean. And ornery. My wife says they spit on you, and they are less obedient than horses. They are also fast and difficult to capture when they get away.

Quote from THHuxleynew

No idea what that means - but my conspiracy-theory detector fires when people start talking about elections being set up in any free democratic country. It is usually an excuse for losing. the US is lots of not nice things, but undoubtedly still free and democratic (since the Trump-inspired coup failed).

Its- "not much has changed", they just get better at it. misinformation is not the same as disinformation started long ago

here"s your Aliens

The Infamous "War of the Worlds" Radio Broadcast Was a Magnificent Fluke

Orson Welles and his colleagues scrambled to pull together the show; they ended up writing pop culture history

www.smithsonianmag.com

Quote from THHuxleynew

I'm happy to discuss the Uk data with you, since I know it well. You have not yet replied to my note about a 2X correction upwards in the unvaccinated rates from the published PHE data.

Stop your FUD - fake attacks. I never discussed rates. It's all about absolute deaths and burden for the hospitals.

Covid-19: How is vaccination affecting hospital admissions and deaths?

What do the data on hospital admissions show?

An analysis of UK data from the National Immunisation Management Service (NIMS) and the Coronavirus Clinical Information Network (CO-CIN),1 endorsed by the UK Scientific and Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE),2 shows that of 40 000 patients with covid-19 who were admitted to hospital between December 2020 and July 2021 a total of 33 496 (84%) had not been vaccinated. It found that 5198 (13%) of these patients had received their first vaccine and 1274 (3%) their second. A total of 611 patients with previous covid-19 (reinfection) were not included in the analysis.

Is the picture similar for deaths?

The important figure here is the number of “breakthrough” deaths, those involving covid-19 that occurred in someone who had received both vaccine doses and had a first positive PCR test result at least 14 days after the second vaccination dose. Data from the Office of National Statistics show that 256 (0.5%) of the 51 281 covid related deaths that occurred in England between 2 January and 2 July 2021 were breakthrough deaths.3 Nearly two thirds (61.1%) of the breakthrough deaths were in men, whereas 52.2% of other covid-19 deaths were in men. And 13.1% of breakthrough deaths were people who were identified from hospital episode data or causes of death as likely to have been immunocompromised, compared with 5.4% for other covid-19 deaths. SAGE noted this trend in its latest minutes, stating, “Vaccination generally reduced the odds of in-hospital mortality, although immunocompromised patients in the study had persistently high risk of mortality after both first and second dose vaccines.”4

What effect have higher vaccination rates had on these trends?

SAGE noted that most patients admitted to hospital with covid after 16 June 2021 were fully vaccinated.5 Public Health England said that even with a “highly effective vaccine” this was expected, given the high rate of vaccine uptake and a policy of vaccinating higher risk people first. In its latest surveillance report Public Health England emphasised that the rate of hospital admissions and death from covid remained “substantially greater” in unvaccinated than in vaccinated people.6 For example, between the week beginning Monday 16 August 2021 and the week ending Sunday 12 September, the rate of hospital admissions of over 80s was 50.5 per 100 000 in the fully vaccinated and 143.9 per 100 000 in the unvaccinated, while deaths were 45.5 and 145.4 per 100 000, respectively. These trends were seen across the board. For example, for 60-69 year olds the hospital admission rates were 13.5 per 100 000 in the fully vaccinated and 74.3 per 100 000 in the unvaccinated, while deaths were 4.1 and 24.3 per 100 000, respectively.

Which patient groups are most at risk after vaccination?

In a paper published by The BMJ,7 researchers from the University of Oxford reported on their updated QCovid tool, which identifies vaccinated people who are at greatest risk of severe covid-19 leading to hospital admission or death from 14 days after their second dose. It highlighted an elevated risk among people who are immunosuppressed as a result of chemotherapy, a recent bone marrow or solid organ transplantation, or HIV and AIDS; people with neurological disorders, including dementia and Parkinson’s; care home residents; and people with chronic disorders, including Down’s syndrome. Julia Hippisley-Cox, professor of clinical epidemiology and general practice at Oxford and coauthor of the paper, said that the tool could be used to help identify patients at highest risk of serious outcomes despite vaccination for targeted intervention, and to “inform discussions between doctors and patients about the level of risk to aid shared decision making.”

Quote from Navid

Good find on the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" data from the UK. LOL. How can anyone support this trash thinking.

India has a sero-positive rate of over 70% in most states excepts in the vaccine terror state of Kerala with a bit below 50%.

Here in the vaccine terror states it's the story about: How can we expand the pandemic to make maximum money. Deaths are no issue. For the old age >80 the crap vaccines just gave them 6 more months. But for the happy ones that got an infection, may be this will add some more years to their live spawn.

My uncle (age 90) not vaccinated before CoV-19 - after recovery - looks much more healthy than before CoV-19.

So it is to early to tell the whole story. But live is always a risk. And a few members of FM/R/X/B already made tons of money. Just by trading some stocks not by the Pfizer/Moderna earnings.

CoV-19 certificates are the ultimate cheating in most states. In fact the duration should be.

Age 80+ 2 months

Age 50+ 6 months

Age < 50 2 years at least

Recovered just multiply by a factor 20x.

But with this you cannot sell vaccines.

Israel :: https://tkp.at/2021/09/19/upda…els-booster-impfkampagne/

In German...

So far 118 deaths among 3 dose boostered people-.

Since July 625 deaths among vaccinated 427 among unvaccinated.

So far 5.7 (of 9.3) mio. have had double or triple shots. In total 3.1 mio had 3 shots. So deaths among vaccinated has ij average the same rate as among unvaccinated. https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

This is still a good result as this corresponds to an average population age of 40 years. Of course not so got for people age >70 that did believe the vaccine would help....

Further the Pfizer immune insufficiency is counted in this deaths. So the picture will be a bit better for next 4 - more months....

Safety of Ivermectin: https://covid19criticalcare.co…-Safety-of-Ivermectin.pdf

So far no problems reported in all studies even at 6x dose.

Biodiversity intervention enhances immune regulation and health-associated commensal microbiota among daycare children

AAAS

Abstract

As the incidence of immune-mediated diseases has increased rapidly in developed societies, there is an unmet need for novel prophylactic practices to fight against these maladies. This study is the first human intervention trial in which urban environmental biodiversity was manipulated to examine its effects on the commensal microbiome and immunoregulation in children. We analyzed changes in the skin and gut microbiota and blood immune markers of children during a 28-day biodiversity intervention. Children in standard urban and nature-oriented daycare centers were analyzed for comparison. The intervention diversified both the environmental and skin Gammaproteobacterial communities, which, in turn, were associated with increases in plasma TGF-β1 levels and the proportion of regulatory T cells. The plasma IL-10:IL-17A ratio increased among intervention children during the trial. Our findings suggest that biodiversity intervention enhances immunoregulatory pathways and provide an incentive for future prophylactic approaches to reduce the risk of immune-mediated diseases in urban societies.

Quote from Navid

Good find on the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" data from the UK. LOL. How can anyone support this trash thinking. Just burn your high school diploma because you didn't pass Grade 7. Even at age 40-49 we have 75 deaths UnV vs 39 V.

Perhaps somone could explain base rate fallacy to Navid. On basis of this post he lack stats skills of even the most basic sort - so it will need to be done patiently.

that will make a 10X difference in the conclusions to be drawn from those figures that navid thinks are so clear.

After that we have a few other things to consider: the vulnerable get vaccinated effect. Not to mention PHE's woeful miscalculation of the number of unvaccinated people because they use MIMS database which counts population 2% larger due to dormant GP registrations. (Though I'm not sure which figures that effects - I'd need to look at the fine print for methodology.

Navid: this stuff is not really that complex. But you need to :

Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads or you shall learn nothing.

I think giving up preconceived notions may be a tough part for you.

Quote from Wyttenbach

So far 118 deaths among 3 dose boostered people

Better than cats!

Quote from Wyttenbach

Safety of Ivermectin: https://covid19criticalcare.co…-Safety-of-Ivermectin.pdf

So far no problems reported in all studies even at 6x dose.

But, to be fair, we would need to wait for 2 years for long-term effects. And also pay attention to whether ODing on the drug could affect male or female fertility. No?

Reflecting on the Israeli death rate:

You can see that for the vulnerable population the UK vaccination rate is much higher than that of Israel - who seem to have been left more vulnerable to death by the anti-vax memes. I'd put the at much greater risk (unvaccinated) fraction of over-60 Israelis at around 10%, whereas in the Uk it is nearer 2%.

It does not matter who proactive a country is in obtaining vaccines - what matters is how many holdouts there are who stay unvaccinated (like W).

I do not totally trust these figures - but they are the best we have. It does not help that over the whole population Israel has a high rate because of the relatively large hesitancy against those who are very vulnerable.

Unless, like W, you simply view anyone over 65 as being too old to matter and don't count their deaths.

Israel

UK

Quote from Wyttenbach

My uncle (age 90) not vaccinated before CoV-19 - after recovery - looks much more healthy than before CoV-19.

So this discovery of COVID as a new fountain of youth is really quite exciting. I'm surprised more people have not organised COVID parties for the over-80s.

Oh - sorry - I forgot. We had them. They were called old people's homes. And how well did that end?

Navid. Don’t you have a pizza restaurant to go shoot up?

Quote from Navid

Even at age 40-49 we have 75 deaths UnV vs 39 V.

Your wife is doctor, I’m sure she will be able to explain the relevance of this to you in terms that you will be able understand.

Or assuming she’s sick of, um…the topic… perhaps you could use the same report to discover that there are 3 times as many UK citizens aged 40-49 who are vaccinated as there are who are unvaccinated.

Then using the same table as you (which -unsurprisingly- you appear to have misread), we can see that the unvaccinated 40-49 year olds die 2.6 times as often, in absolute terms. (75/29)

Then, by using the magic of multiplication -even you- could maybe just about manage to work out the unvaccinated 40-49’s are dying at almost 8 times the rate of the vaccinated.

Or, in other words, being vaccinated cuts the reduces the risk of a 40-49 dying of covid by 92%

…But then, you’re an anti-vaxxer, and a relatively rabid one at that.., So I predict you’ll either be unable to understand this… or perhaps you’ll refuse to understand it… or maybe you’ll just pretend to misunderstand it, in order that you can meet Jesus faster - or whatever weird motivation drives you people.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads or you shall learn nothing.

For those unfamiliar, that is a quote from the original Thomas Henry Huxley. The reincarnated Huxley here, THHuxleynew, agrees with original Huxley, with this caveat:

. . . except for cold fusion. You can ignore as many peer-reviewed high sigma replications as you want with cold fusion.

The original Huxley was a wonderful educator, a fine scientist, a heroic friend of Charles Darwin, and a rabid racist. We all have our faults. But, beware of hero worshipping. Also, he may never have actually said what he claimed he said in the debate with Wilburforce, according to an essay by S. J. Gould. I don't suppose it matters whether he said it on that occasion, because he wrote it several times, in letters to Darwin and others.

Pandemic of the Unvaccinated - part 2.

Here’s some infographics from a bunch of different hospitals in the US:

Oof!

Quote from Wyttenbach

Stop your FUD - fake attacks. I never discussed rates. It's all about absolute deaths and burden for the hospitals.

Ok - weasel words now.

But of course if you are a person deciding whether or not to get vaccinated - it is all about rates.

As I think you well know!

Even if you are looking to do the best about reducing R - and hence infections, burden on health service - it is all about a comparison of infection rates, not absolute numbers infected.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Perhaps somone could explain base rate fallacy to Navid. On basis of this post he lack stats skills of even the most basic sort - so it will need to be done patiently.

that will make a 10X difference in the conclusions to be drawn from those figures that navid thinks are so clear.

After that we have a few other things to consider: the vulnerable get vaccinated effect. Not to mention PHE's woeful miscalculation of the number of unvaccinated people because they use MIMS database which counts population 2% larger due to dormant GP registrations. (Though I'm not sure which figures that effects - I'd need to look at the fine print for methodology.

Navid: this stuff is not really that complex. But you need to :

Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads or you shall learn nothing.

I think giving up preconceived notions may be a tough part for you.

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Most are not qualified for this discussion. Some people have the ability to use logic at a grade 12 level, but synthesize at a sub grade 7 level. The "conclusions" I make - like "allowing early treatment" and "not mandating vaccines" (or passports!) are based on synthesis. They are obvious decisions based on data at hand. It would take mental compartmentalization to argue away all the data and draw a conclusion from one table.

It takes Grade 7 synthesis to see the conclusion - many on this board can re-hash why. Does anyone on this board actually believe that given the data mandating vaccines makes any sense?

Imbecile at it's root means someone without a supporting staff. Someone weak. Someone who may have one strong leg, but one weak leg. Analysis | Synthesis mismatch can make on smart in one way, but very weak in another way.

Imbeciles may believe science is leading this situation -- when anyone with an iota of street smarts knows (based on evidence!) that private industry is driving it forward and science is being used to cleanup the public relations mess.

Quote from Zeus46

Pandemic of the Unvaccinated - part 2.

Here’s some infographics from a bunch of different hospitals in the US:

Oof!

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If anyone wants to be useful to society - go find out

a) how many of them got early treatment?

b) how many of them have pre-existing conditions?

c) how many got Remdesivir?

d) how many of them got a hospital based treatment protocol that Dr. Varone or others would use?

c) how many of the unvaccinated had any Covid injection?

There you go. That will be useful instead of promoting a medical product like some magic elixir.