I figured we would hear from the

save the planet people before to

long.

https://www.nationalobserver.c…could-help-us-save-planet

Wyttenbach Your small city test has already been done on NY, and if you want a small country too look at Russia's exponential growth in cases and deaths. What happens when we end lock-down - a return to exponential growth in fatalities. Unless there is anti virus treatment or vaccine. Otherwise as you suggest isolate & protect the old and vulnerable and allow the younger generation only to go back to work, while keeping social distancing in play as much as is humanly possible. And make masks compulsary once the NHS has sorted out it's PPE hazmat protection problems. Stops the spread on public transport..

This discussion is very interesting, because the talents we have developed after more than a quarter of a century of research in the LENR field are very useful to us: another way of thinking, another way of thinking about scientific problems.

This is why I am saddened when I read these harsh criticisms concerning the late my friend Dr. Jacques Benveniste and also the criticisms against Dr. Montagnier, Nobel Prize winner. Dr. Montagnier is not my friend, he never wanted to test my isothermal DNA amplification process either in his Pasteur laboratory or in his Chinese laboratory. But he is a great scientist, who does not hesitate to launch his mind on hasardous paths. In this sense, he is a worthy colleague of our masters Dr. Pons & Fleischmann.

Dr. Raoult also never wanted to work on breathers-assisted isothermal amplification, but he had the flash of genius, 15 years ago, to see that the small spheres that we saw in the cytoplasm of the simple amoebae that live in the water of the flower pots were not cocci (bacteria) but indeed giant viruses mimicking bacteria. This is why he called them "mimivirus".

Well. Is chloroquine the miracle molecule? No doubt not. It is an "intercalator" of DNA. That is to say, this molecule insert itself between the bases of the double helix, and obviously modifies its topology and its properties.

So chloroquine acts on gene expression, because topology of DNA is the key of gene activation. This chemical compound acts on the genes of parasites. It acts on virus genes. And also it acts on the genes of humans.

So it's normal to see side effects. Chloroquine may cause heart attacks in heart patients. So what ? Are we going to let the other patients die without doing anything?

When it comes to azithromycin, it's an antibiotic, and giving an antibiotic to patients with pneumonia is just a good idea. So clinical trials should be encouraged. We must test the Raoult method. Widely. But you must also test all the other methods (Advocacy pro domo)

It's the war. There will be deaths. There are always deaths during an assault. But the best defense is always attack.

With regard to methods of care, the Germans have shown that the intubation of patients causes more deaths than the virus. It's normal :

What is intubation? We push an elastomeric tube into the windpipe using the finger. We can damage the vocal cords. Then inflate an annular balloon to block the tube and prevent air leakage. If the wrong hose was used and the airway tube was placed in the esophagus, the patient swells and is dead.

In some patients, the nerves and blood vessels are close to the windpipe: the brain will no longer be supplied with blood, and compression of the vagus nerve will stop the heart. (Mother nature has not found much room in the neck to pass all these tubes and all these wires, not to mention the bones of the spine and the muscles and tendons that keep all of this upright ...)

In the past, we were small insectivorous animals that looked like a sarigue or an possum. The neck was proportionally much larger, and the fragile tubes were located UNDER the body. The blows and the claws and the bites of the enemies touched first the muscles of the back, it is not very serious.

Today, after more than 10 million years of evolution, the fragile carotid arteries and jugular veins are exposed from the front, very vulnerable of a saber blow from a jihadist, or a shard of bottle in a dark alley.

Hmm, let's forget about these 10 million years of mutations and let's go back to medical technology: it's very unpleasant, a tube in the throat (please: no inappropriate jokes!) So we have to put patients to sleep (Fentanyl) And some people resist fentanyl, they have to be curarized, a medical technique invented by the Amazon Indians. (To hunt the apes.)

It is therefore normal that many patients die.

It would be better to put them on their stomachs, possibly placing them in “steel lungs” (I don't know the name in English: it was the beds used in the 40s and 50s for patients with polyomyelitis.) They are no longer found in the west, but I believe they are still used in large numbers in sanatoria in Russia. Russian military hospitals keep many in reserve, as it is a good method for treating soldiers' poisonings with trilons. (VX, etc ...) We will see the results when they are used to treat Russian patients, and I am sure that these results will be very good.

(in addition, we do not have to use a tube to extract the urine from the bladder of patients, we can just give them a light sedative, a benzodiazepine to calm them, and put them on diapers, and an perfusion for hydration, if they don't can't drink.)

By putting cushions under the mid-body and the legs or under the back, it will be possible to evacuate phlegm without increasing the pressure in the head too much. (The blood will go both to the feet and to the head, which will avoid the Skylab effect.)

Quote from andrea.s

it seems to me that his spin doctors advised him to let the governors do as they deem right (because the right thing is painful) and rather bark and protest, as the laymen do. It will gain him a lot of credit.

Andrea,

The governors of every state could have closed their offices/schools/businesses

etc on January 1st if they were so inclined, but not 1 of them did.

None had the required stones, none of them wanted to be the 1st and make a mistake and be opened to ridicule, so they waited until the President recommended it.

Now, they can agree or disagree and play the hindsight game like the media.

This makes me as sick as thinking

about the C.V.

https://www.theglobeandmail.co…own-as-priority-activist/

sam12 We need to look closer to home. The complete digital surveillance state is coming to America! China is a test market for "social reform."

They have an entire shadow government created. Meet your next president in case the flu topples the government!

"We're in new territory," says one senior officer, the entire post-9/11 paradigm of emergency planning thrown out the window. The officer jokes, in the kind of morbid humor characteristic of this slow-moving disaster, that America had better learn who Gen. Terrence J. O'Shaughnessy is.

He is the "combatant commander" for the United States and would in theory be in charge if Washington were eviscerated. That is, until a new civilian leader could be installed.

Newsweek is the magazine of the C IA - the service created for the globalists.

Don't worry it won't happen tomorrow, they get you caged in and then the shut the door. But ya, keep worrying about China and not the US Constitution!

Interesting Video Showing how Scientist are going all out to get CV vacine.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Thus far I can't see any evidence of different lethality between different strains. I think were there a BIG difference it would have been noticed by now. But equally, we don't yet have much info.

Quote from THHuxleynew

They are then confusing the data from Wuhan and different aggressivity of L and S strains - thinking it correlates to lethality.

You are completely right. In fact the virus does in average one mutation/week but very unlikely a successful one at an early stage. For me the story about an L/S strain was a Chinese trick to explain their total failure in Wuhan. The influence of smog - acid perforated lungs - is obvious and absolutely correlates with region that are affected worst. Even local effects highway Queens (New York) give a clear picture.

Quote from JedRothwell

Because that would be mass murder.

Testing a small City e.g. 10'000 inhabitants until the infection rate is > 70% is certainly no mass murder as you would do this under control - providing early medication.

What is happening in New York and now country wide in the USA (20'000'000 new unemployed no medicare etc.) might soon look like mass murder, because the wrong lock-down /release decision can just be made once. Otherwise the USA is beamed back to Third world status.

Quote from JedRothwell

The reservoir is large enough. In the U.S. there have been 2,200 cases per million officially recorded. Assume that is an order of magnitude too low. That is still only 2% of the population. In New York City it may be higher, but in most places it is lower still, because so many cases are in New York.

In other words, so far ~2% of the population has been infected and 39,000 people have died. Herd immunity takes roughly 60% of the population. That's 30 times more infections. There is no reason to think the mortality rate will be much lower for the next 58% of the population, so that would be roughly 30 * 39,000 = 1,170,000 best case. That is assuming the infections come slowly and the hospitals are not overwhelmed.

Because that would be mass murder.

Not to be a downer, but I think a bigger part of the story in the coming weeks will be the chronic health problems many people are left with who got sick from the virus. This article outlines them. There are also reports now of Doctors in several places scrambling for dialysis machines because of kidney failure:

https://www.jpost.com/health-s…-body-doctors-fear-625099

And here is a story about a Broadway actor who is having his leg amputated because of his illness.

https://variety.com/2020/legit…ated-broadway-1234584242/

Lots of other HCQ analogues to choose from, some of which like quinacrine have more powerful inhibition of RNA polymerase than chloroquine. The WHO guidelines from

The cardiotoxicity of antimalarials - World Health Organization

www.who.int › malaria › mpac › mpac-mar2017-erg-c...
PDF

22 Mar 2017 - arrhythmias, or who are already taking medicines that can prolong the ... The risk of cardiotoxicity of antimalarial drugs has received renewed ... mepacrine (quinacrine, Atabrine) and plasmochin (plasmoquine, pamaquine).

Summary of findings and proposed recommendations

1. Apart from halofantrine, antimalarial medicines that prolong the QT/QTc interval, such as quinine, chloroquine, artesunate-amodiaquine and dihydroartemisinin-piperaquine, have been associated with a low risk of cardiotoxicity.

2. Drug-induced QT/QTc interval prolongation is a surrogate indicator for increased risk of drug-induced torsade de pointes (TdP), a potentially lethal polymorphic ventricular tachycardia. Risk factors for drug-induced QT/QTc prolongation include female gender, structural heart disease, genetic defects of cardiac ion channels, electrolyte disturbances, bradycardia, hepatic impairment, and concomitant use of medications that prolong the QT/QTc interval or increase drug levels. Antimalarial medicines that can induce QT/QTc interval prolongation should be used with caution in individuals with known heart disease, a family history of sudden unexplained death consistent with cardiac arrhythmias, or who are already taking medicines that can prolong the QT/QTc interval.

3. Dihydroartemisinin-piperaquine and artemether-lumefantrine have been the most intensively studied antimalarial drugs. No sudden deaths have been attributed to cardiotoxicity following artemether-lumefantrine. However, among ~200 000 treated individuals with close follow-up, one possible sudden cardiac death associated with dihydroartemisinin-piperaquine was reported. This finding is consistent with the risk of fatal cardiotoxicity associated with other QT/QTc-prolonging medicines in current use.

4. Review of pharmacovigilance, clinical and preclinical data, along with preliminary results of PK/PD modelling, reveals no evidence of a significant difference in the risks of cardiotoxicity following exposure to piperaquine, chloroquine or amodiaquine at the current recommended doses. The risks of cardiotoxicity of piperaquine-containing medicines are probably similar for healthy volunteers and malaria patients.

5. Drug-induced TdP and life-threatening ventricular tachyarrhythmias are very rare events, and there are no simple screening tests to identify people at risk. Further studies are needed to identify genetic polymorphisms and other pre-existing conditions that may contribute to the risk of drug-induced cardiotoxicity. More evidence on the potential cardiotoxicity of chloroquine, amodiaquine and primaquine is needed.

Some more interesting studies on quinacrine which was used just before chloroquine was invented:

(PDF) Beyond DNA binding - A review of the potential ...

www.researchgate.net › publication › 51124226_Beyond...

effects of quinacrine on DNA and RNA polymerase. reactions in vitro shed light on h ow quinacrine may. inhibit enzymatic polymerization reactions in vivo and.

I can't understand why there are no WHO Solidarity proposals to investigate other anti-malarials with RNA polymerase inhibitory activity. Early days yet.

Quote from fabrice DAVID

What is intubation? We push an elastomeric tubeinto the windpipe using the finger. We can damage the vocal cords. Then inflatean annular balloon to block the tube and prevent air leakage. If the wrong hosewas used and the airway tube was placed in the esophagus, the patient swellsand is dead.

Some of what you wrote in the same post made sense. This doesn't. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracheal_intubation

And the most advanced method, now commonly employed in the US- the video laryngoscope: https://www.intersurgical.com/info/iview -- this is just one of many types available. Intubation is a routine technique used in millions of anesthetic procedures and life support situations every year. The problem in COVID-19 isn't intubation. It seems to be placing the patients on ventilators. For reasons not clear yet, that is associated with a mortality rate of up to 80% (as per Governor Cuomo of New York this morning).

How to use the disposable video layngoscope (2 min video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYvWdwktV_8 -- this is on a mannikin so even the squeamish can watch

Amazingly, "Intubation? There's a app for that" -- this is intubation with a DIY video scope on a COVID-19 patient so extreme isolation is required. An iPhone is used as the video screen. If you are very squeamish, you may want to avoid this but it isn't bloody. Commentary is in a language I am not familiar with but it doesn't matter because seeing what happens visually is what it's about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyYuPiPyZG0

Quote

In some patients, the nerves and blood vessels are close to the windpipe: the brain will no longer be supplied with blood, and compression of the vagus nerve will stop the heart. (Mother nature has not found much room in the neck to pass all these tubes and all these wires, not to mention the bones of the spine and the muscles and tendons that keep all of this upright ...)

Awww, c'mon. That is 100% bullpuckey. Go look at the videos linked above and read about what intubation really is. That view is absurd and no, the body is not arranged the way you think. Look at any anatomy text about the neck. What are you reading? "Intubation Self Taught for Fun and Profit" (on Amazon maybe?) There are rare complications of intubation and some can be quite severe and there are additional issues about keeping a tube in too long but I doubt you have a clue about what any of them are. The alternative to intubation is tracheostomy (Google it) and that has a trove of problems of its own.

In case HCQ+Azi pans out from controlled studies, the issue of bad effects on the heart comes up. There are conflicting articles on how this might go. But several studies suggest azithromycin is not as bad as thought. This is complicated study but it says that azithromycin does prolong QTc interval but does NOT cause the very dangerous arrhythmia called Torsade des Pointes and does not increase all cause mortality when used. https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/my…es-or-increase-mortality/

And this prepublication paper (link below) suggests that measuring the QTc interval can, as I suspected, be done by a home self-performed EKG. They don't mention the Kardia by name but I am pretty sure that is what they are talking about. However it has to be used in a complicated manner to get at least a second EKG lead (lead II) for best results. Nonetheless, it seems the average error if only the usual (for this device) lead I is used, that error is around 35 milliseconds. It seems the Apple watch will also work for this. I am not familiar with it (yet). I don't want another thing I have to charge daily. I do have a sample of each Kardia device and they seem to work very well if a little care is used to keep them from moving during use and pressing them with the right force to avoid muscle artifact yet get good contact with the electrodes.

If you want to try this measurement for yourself, here are instructions: https://medium.com/@aerobatic/…-qt-interval-5dffb04717dc Remember DIT medicine is a very bad idea so if you do have a situation where you feel you must use HCQ with or without Azi, you can send your EKG tracing to a health professional by email as a PDF file. The device, again, is Kardia, $90 from Amazon and a version giving a more comprehensive "six lead" EKG is $160. In the US. I don't know about Europe or elsewhere and local regulations vary. The devices mentioned are FDA approved for home use by untrained individuals in conjunction with their health care provider.

This is from the company web site store but Amazon carries it too and no, I do not have stock in the company An iPhone is used for display in the illustration.

Quote from THHuxleynew

[...]

Encouraging hints that real IFR could well be at lower end of what is likely (e.g. 0.1% - 0.2%).

Remember that the extreme age dependence means this must be skewed according to country age profile.

It cannot be over-estimated how much this matters for lockdown. With an IFR of 0.1%:

• Developing countries like India and most of Africa can just ride it out. Some horrible deaths, but those exist for other reasons.
• The UK can unlock fairly soon and actually win with a "herd immunity" approach. Many more people will have died than had we dealt with the epidemic well at the start, and skewed deaths much later when better treatment exists.
• The US can unlock relatively soon if it is OK with a few 100,000 deaths. Maybe less, because some parts will perhaps be low enough population density for little spreading?

We just don't yet know, but will soon.

Display More

Quote from andrea.s

Iceland tested 12% of their population so they cannot be underestimating the positive cases that much. Their death rate is 0.5% over the tested positive. [...]. Let us say that they are underestimating cases by a factor 5: you end up with 0.1% mortality. If you can slow down the contagion to a constant rate and reach herd immunity in one year, it is < 0.1% population dying in 1 year on top of the 1.2% normal rate. In Italy it would be a toll of 60000 including 22000 already dead. [...]

Please forgive my self quote. It is to say that 0.1% IFR is already contradicted by Lombardy region in Italy. Lombardy has 10M inhabitants and already 12,000 Covid-19 deaths. Extrapolations show the toll will reach 15,000 by end May. Positive cases are 66,000 out of 264,000 tests so far, i.e. 25% of the tested population. Let us suppose it would stay at 25% if all 10M were tested. At best (from the standpoint of IFR) we can imagine that there will be 15,000 casualties over 2.5M infections, i.e. IFR is not below 0.6%.

Source

http://m.statistichecovid19.it (I maintain this microsite) and therein recalled http://www.salute.gov.it/porta…ovoCoronavirus&menu=vuoto

Here is how Sweden is doing with their partial lock down. Not very well. (Two days old graph)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

andrea.s

Well that is depressing I agree.

1. Maybe the demographics pushes it up a bit though.
2. And maybe lack of working health care does the same.
3. 25% of tested population positive does not mean total infection rate is positive since tests are done over long period of time, so that can be pushed up too!
4. Finally there was some rumour of Italian all cause deaths being classified as COVID, which again could push it up.

So I'm still going to hope for < 0.5% in a more average population.

• Iceland does not count because of v low infection rate and complete shielding of those most at risk.
• California serology doe snot count for reasons previously posted

We will get more info from serology as time progresses.

It appears that in the US, the protests are encouraged by some of the dumbest, creepiest, least informed, slimiest, nut case bozoes like the raving lunatic (watch him on Youtube sometime) Alex Jones:

"Protesting for the Right to Catch Coronavirus" in the (fake, LOL) New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0…virus-trump-protests.html

Edited to remove sarcastic reference.

Quote

Few demonstrate this movement better than Alex Jones of Infowars — one of the key figures of Saturday’s “You Can’t Close America” rally on the steps of the Capitol building in Austin, Tex. For decades, Mr. Jones has built a thriving media empire harnessing (real and understandable) fear, paranoia and rage, which in turn drive sales of vitamin supplements and prepper gear in his personal store. The Infowars strategy is simple: Instill a deep distrust in all authority, while promoting a seductive, conspiratorial alternate reality in which Mr. Jones, via his outlandish conspiracies, has all the answers. He’s earned the trust of a non-trivial number of Americans, and used it to stoke his ego and his bank account. And he never lets reality get in the way (case in point, holding a stay-at-home order protest in Texas the day after the state announced it would begin efforts to carefully reopen in coming weeks).

Former employees have described Mr. Jones to me as master of manipulating the truth into a convenient worldview in which Infowars and its listeners are constantly victimized by powerful institutional forces. “We kept saying ‘We’re the underdogs’ — that was our mantra,” one former employee told me in 2017. To make this work, Mr. Jones molds the day’s news into conspiratorial fables.

Pandemic shines harsh light on Trump's failure to protect pangolins

https://www.theguardian.com/en…ns-protections-us-trading

Guardian newspaper blames Trump He failed to support pangolins..

Oh well .. I will fail to support the Guardian .. letting its light shine.

"Our journalism is free from commercial and political bias "

https://www.theguardian.com/en…ns-protections-us-trading