Quote from Curbina

Testing in the USA is almost being avoided, one can only wonder why that is.

It appears to be sheer incompetence. "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor.

I cannot think of any reason why any medical professional would cover up cases in an epidemic, because everyone knows that will only make things worse a few weeks later. Very stupid administrators, politicians and police officers might do this, as they did in China and in the U.S. Administrators at the CDC refuses to test people who turned out to have covid19. Perhaps they were trying to cover up, or they knew there were not enough test kits, or they were trying to save money. That is so idiotic, and so counter to common sense, I think it must be stupid rather than evil.

In the U.S., the cost of healthcare is already making it difficult or impossible to stop the epidemic. A person with a sense of responsibility returned from China, felt ill, and had himself tested for covid19. (He didn't have it; it was seasonal flu.) They charged him $3,270. He said, ""How can they expect normal citizens to contribute to eliminating the potential risk of person-to-person spread if hospitals are waiting to charge us $3,270 for a simple blood test and a nasal swab?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/…tinez-azcue-a9358146.html

Another man and his daughter returning from China were ordered by the government to go into quarantine for two weeks, and then charged $2,200.

https://theintercept.com/2020/…ght-mandatory-quarantine/

In the event of an epidemic, millions of people will have to be tested if there are going to be effective quarantines. At $2,000 or more for the test alone -- never mind treatment -- the entire nation will be bankrupted in a few months.

Quote from JedRothwell

"How can they expect normal citizens to contribute to eliminating the potential risk of person-to-person spread if hospitals are waiting to charge us $3,270 for a simple blood test and a nasal swab?"

Novartis provided test at no cost. Thus there is only one conclusion. There are to many criminals working in the US health system.

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One of my friends from Northern Italy is taking this very seriously- here he is with his Ozone gun....

His elaborate mask isn't on correctly (I suppose this is just a "demo"?) and most likely won't help much. The ozone thing is laughable. Social isolation and hand washing are the best protection for individuals. Patients who actually have COVID-19 infections, even if it is not a severe one, need to wear a mask to prevent them from emitting droplets of infected material into the air. That is partly effective and a lot better than nothing. But they need to wash their hands often and avoid touching their face, nose, mouth and eyes as well, which is not easy. For patients, a level 3 surgical mask or an N95 ir N99 disposable mask are adequate. There is no need for a chemical warfare or hazardous gas type apparatus and it won't do much more. Also, such masks are not disposable and are extremely difficult if not impossible to decontaminate of viruses.

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Thank god for free healthcare.

Maybe so, maybe not. Better hope you get more than what you pay for! Wait to see how available timely resources will be in England.

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Testing in the USA is almost being avoided, one can only wonder why that is.

It's scary how many silly ideas are out there. The above is categorically wrong in all ways. Testing is not being avoided. It has a very high priority. Thousands of test kits are in the mail and thousands more are being produced. There is no need to "wonder why" more tests have not been performed in the US. Test kits take time to make and have to be FDA approved as do test methods developed by state labs. Also, some early kits from CDC were defective and had to be recalled. This process has recently been shortened and partly waived. The intent in the US is to have everyone who is tested for influenza be tested for COVID-19 at the same time, regardless of influenza vaccination status (the vaccine is only partly effective). I can provide links if necessary. Try reading US news, for example CNN or NYT or WP.

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Testing in the USA is almost being avoided, one can only wonder why that is. It appears to be sheer incompetence. "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor.

IMO it's intentional sweeping things under the carpet in Chinese style, motivated by greediness this time (decreased availability of tests enables to escalate prices). See for example: Why are we letting FDA regulations limit our number of coronavirus tests? Regulations and socialism in any form are usually connected with limited availability and economic inefficiency. Corrupted state capitalism often profits from artificial throttling of supply-demand equilibrium both at the side of corrupted officers, which are approving it, both at the side of companies, which are allowed to escalate their prices. This is also what we could expect from Sanders reforms - no matter how well minded they would be.

Regarding the vaccination, I'm skeptical about it too. The flu vaccines are notoriously inefficient, as flu viruses mutate fast. The cytokine storms following the coronavirus outbreak are strange, it even looks like result of failed vaccination for me: the immune cells are raging for enemy in their proximity which they all were trained for - but they cannot find one.

From vortex: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/01…t-research-cdc/index.html

Corona since a long time in USA: CDC did obviously withhold information. Even worse withhold information about possible treatment - what sometimes isn't wrong as a premature treatment can be worse as the illness e.g. like many cases in new cancer immune therapy that through a speedup of "decay" ...

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Testing is not being avoided. It has a very high priority. Thousands of test kits are in the mail and thousands more are being produced. There is no need to "wonder why" more tests have not been performed in the US. Test kits take time to make and have to be FDA approved as do test methods developed by state labs.

On the other hand, the U.S. is far behind other countries. See:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/

UK: 7,132 concluded tests, of which 13 positive (0.2% positivity rate).

Italy: 9,462 tests, of which 470 positive, awaiting results: unknown (at least 5.0% positivity rate).

France: 762 tests, of which 17 positive, 179 awaiting results (at least 2.2% positivity rate).

South Korea: 66,652 tests with 1766 positives 25,568 awaiting results (4.3% positivity rate).

United States: 445 concluded tests, of which 14 positive (3.1% positivity rate).

The US CDC initially declined to test the patient who on Feb. 26 become the latest confirmed case in the US, and the first with an unknown origin of infection (raising the concern that there are more cases circulating among the general public that have not been identified).

The patient, who was on a ventilator with a suspected viral infection, was transferred from another hospital to UC Davis Medical Center on Feb. 19. The hospital's request to test for COVID-19 was initially denied by CDC, as the patient did not meet the COVID-19 testing criteria (had not recently traveled to countries with outbreaks or been in contact with someone with the virus). The CDC on Feb. 27 issued new testing rules, for which many more people can now be tested for the coronavirus.

Just 12 of more than 100 public health labs in the U.S. are currently able to test for COVID-19 because of a problem with the test developed by CDC. The agency can now screen only 350-500 samples per day. California Governor Gavin Newsom characterized the number of test kits available in the state as “remarkably inadequate.”

As of Feb. 26, CDC had performed a total of 445 tests. For comparison, the UK, with a population five times smaller than the US, had conducted over 7,000 tests.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

[Free healthcare]

Maybe so, maybe not. Better hope you get more than what you pay for!

In the U.S. we do not get what we pay for. We get roughly 0.1% of what we pay for. A liter of sterile saline solution probably costs about $1 to make. U.S. hospitals charge hundreds of dollars for that. Some charge $1,000. The test for coronavirus takes a few minutes and a few dollars worth of materials, yet the hospitals are charging thousands of dollars for it.

Millions of poor people in the U.S. do not have health insurance, despite Obamacare. (Millions more will lose it if Obamacare is repealed.) They do not have sick leave, or leave to take care of sick children or relatives, or vacation leave. Many of these people work in restaurants, grocery stores and hotels. They will go to work even when they are sick. So, along with your lunch you will get a free dose of coronavirus. This is what happens when we ignore public health, and we don't care when other people get sick. We don't just hurt them; in the end, we hurt everyone.

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it even looks like result of failed vaccination for me: the immune cells are raging for enemy in their proximity which they all were trained for - but they cannot find one.

Link please or it is highly improbable. I think you are anthropomorphizing. If that is a word!

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The test for coronavirus takes a few minutes and a few dollars worth of materials, yet the hospitals are charging thousands of dollars for it.

Link please on the cost to hospitals. Generally mass produced RT-PCR tests (if that is still what it is) are not very expensive but they are much more than a "few dollars." The issues are quality assurance and storage under proper conditions, usually either frozen or refrigerated and of course, sterile.

I won't debate the rest of your post-- hospital mark ups have no sense or reason and are incredibly high because nobody is expected to pay them, they are intended to be negotiated with insurance companies which pay far less than is billed or with Medicare and Medicaid which pay even less than that. And patients who have no insurance are often treated for nothing by default. But I agree, it's a shitty system. Now, will you agree with me that, in general, waits for tests and doctor visits in the US are shorter than in many countries with single payer, government controlled systems? As to quality of care, that is widely variable everywhere, in some countries more than others. I can tell you second person stories told to me about Mexico which nevertheless has some excellent doctors and well equipped modern hospitals. The problem is that government licensing and control is lax and you can bribe you way through it in some cases. That is harder to do in the US, France, England and so on. Anyway, we generally agree except for how cheap and easy the current tests are. I think they will get cheaper and easier and better but they might not be there yet.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Link please on the cost to hospitals. Generally mass produced RT-PCR tests (if that is still what it is) are not very expensive but they are much more than a "few dollars."

I read somewhere that is what they cost in China, where they have administered at least 320,000 tests in Guangdong province.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/

Quote from seven_of_twenty

Now, will you agree with me that, in general, waits for tests and doctor visits in the US are shorter than in many countries with single payer, government controlled systems?

I wouldn't know. I have not read any studies on this. I do know that U.S. hospitals are filthy and have more nosocomial infections than hospitals in other first world countries. See:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ma…-killed-my-father/307617/

My only knowledge of waiting time and treatment is anecdotal. My family, friends and I have been to emergency rooms for unplanned care, such as me whacking my arm. We have done this in U.S., Japan and Germany. Also, I have seen several people die of old age or disease in the U.S. and Japan. Based on these incidents, U.S. hospitals are appalling. When I showed up bleeding and swollen in Atlanta's top hospital one evening, they made me wait for a few hours in a room full of miserable, coughing, bleeding people. In Japan, they would have instantly give me ice and bandage, and people who are coughing would be put in another waiting room. Before they did anything for me -- so much as giving me ice -- they made me fill in multiple forms and made sure I was insured and could pay for it.

Perhaps they have reformed. Some years later my wife was hurt. Again we showed up bleeding. There was no crowd of people, perhaps because it was the middle of the day. They treated her first and THEN asked for proof of medical insurance ect. It seems that's the new rule.

Quote from Curbina

Just what we needed, more reasons to worry about this.

https://kids.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/frym.2020.00010

More circumstantial evidence for the lethal neurological action

People over 65 have more leaky brains..

not just leaky valves

Their porous BBB may let Covid into their brainstem which controls breathing

This may explain the preferential mortality for the elderly versus the young

Just one more reason for the older ones to mask up and isolate from the greater unwashed

Quote from Alan Smith

Coronavirus has led to the cancellation of one of the world’s biggest scientific conferences — the March Meeting of the American Physical Society (APS) in Denver, Colorado. . . . some would-be attendees are finding ways to share their talks virtually . . .

That is a shame, but it seems like a sensible thing to do.

One silver lining to this dreadful event may be an increased use of telecommunting, teleconferencing, virtual meetings and so on. These can save time and energy, and they can be less tiring for the participants. When I go to Japan, it takes me a week to get used to the time, and another week when I get back. Some meetings and conferences work best in person, but many work-a-day business meetings can be done over the internet, and should be.

Here is a cute public service video from Vietnam. You can turn on English subtitles.

New York City doctor says he has to ‘plead to test people’ for coronavirus

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/0…plead-to-test-people.html

Lots of interesting technical comments in the video portion. This doctor thinks there are thousands of undiagnosed cases in the U.S. He seems to be an expert who knows what he is talking about. He think the S. Korean data is the best indication of the actual mortality rate for a first world country, and I suppose for China now that they have a handle on it. S. Korea has done a lot of testing. Their numbers are: 28 deaths / 4335 cases = 0.6% mortality. They do not list many critical cases:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

QUOTES from text portion:

“Before I came here this morning, I was in the emergency room seeing patients,” he said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.” “I still do not have a rapid diagnostic test available to me.”

“I’m here to tell you, right now, at one of the busiest hospitals in the country, I don’t have it at my fingertips,” he said. “I still have to make my case, plead to test people. This is not good. We know that there are 88 cases in the United States. There are going to be hundreds by the middle of the week. There’s going to be thousands by next week. And this is a testing issue.”

The team at New York-Presbyterian Hospital is isolating suspected coronavirus patients and taking proper precautions to prevent the spread, McCarthy said, but “they’re hamstrung.” . . .

“They’re testing 10,000 a day in some countries, and we can’t get this off the ground,” McCarthy said. “I’m a practitioner on the firing line, and I don’t have the tools to properly care for patients today.” . . .