Quote from THHuxleynew

I'm not ruling out some secret US-funded research into a SARS-COV2 type virus that escaped in Wuhan. Difficult to rule it out. But it requires a secret research program not recorded in that lab because the records don't show any such sequence used as well as lapses in biosecurity, Admittedly lapses in biosecurity are very possible, the US has outlawed such research because its own labs were shown to have repeated lapses, and the UK equally finds it h

According to Chinse sources (people working at the lab) Xi ordered the first day of the virus escape that all probes of CoV-19 and all lab journal immediately get destroyed. So THH you are on the safe side. AS the direct evidence has gone. But it will be impossible to find a zoonotic source as such is simply impossible to exist. Unluckily the few species that can catch corona never made it into the lab or even close to it.

Just to remember you that the event happened almost 6 weeks before the official Chinese announcement. Now confirmed by virus data from Italy! (And your secrete service..)

Quote from Wyttenbach

According to Chinse sources (people working at the lab) Xi ordered the first day of the virus escape that all probes of CoV-19 and all lab journal immediately get destroyed.

Wyttenfact?

There was no doubt a Chinese coverup - it is in the nature of the Chinese state to do this when things go wrong, at all levels.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/art…rus-in-december-rz055qjnj

But not specifically at the Wuhan lab, nor any destruction of lab notes, which the scientist i/c the lab said she checked the moment she got the sars-cov2 sequence to see whetehr it could have come from them.

https://www.latimes.com/scienc…he-genetic-evidence-shows

BBC article exploring why Japan did so well with the Corona virus death rate.

Interesting article.

Japan has a lot of elderly citizens and densely packed cities along with crowded transport systems, so would seem to be set up for a disaster but (so far) not so.

Suggestion that the timing of the lock down was important and that even though it was non-enforceable most (enough) of the citizens complied.

It is proposed that if other places (UK and New York) had locked down earlier then many lives would have been saved.

In the case of USA even New York's large fatality rate has not been enough to impress the necessary actions upon other states, I guess if New York had locked down earlier then there would be even more complacency.

USA and Brazil are showing that complacency and wishful thinking and propaganda have zero effect on halting the corona virus.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Why the heck to you believe that the Chinese completely jailed an 11 million city ...

... Do you understand what 100x stronger bond to ACE2 implies??

Not sure, but the current lack of a posted link to verifiable scientific argument/evidence has definite implications for Wyttenfact status...

Quote from THHuxleynew

There was no doubt a Chinese coverup - it is in the nature of the Chinese state to do this when things go wrong, at all levels.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/art…rus-in-december-rz055qjnj

Typical THH FUD!

I said all CoV-19 related work not the usual bat-stuff , that has been run in the other just level II lab...

I leave it to you to find out the name of the employee that disappeared already at day 1. (in October!)

Quote from ZenoOfElea

Japan has a lot of elderly citizens and densely packed cities along with crowded transport systems, so would seem to be set up for a disaster but (so far) not so.

All Japanese people do wear a mask in case of an emergency. Japanese people can buy them for 10 cents a piece in the 100Y shop. Further Japanese restaurants did a self lock-down without waiting for state order. So in general Japanese people have a very educated high level social behavior.

About 2 years ago my wife did catch a very bad cold the first day we visited her family in Tokyo. Could haven be the immunizing corona event! Interesting enough I was already immune. It looks like we north Swiss/Germans are more used to corona and and thus we see far less failures due to CoV-19.

We, last week, had a steep infection peek from avg. 10 to >50/day due to imported super spreaders from Swiss-Serbians coming from Belgrad clubs. But in average no new ICU/ventilation cases! 1 death in 40 days! among 1.4 mio people.

So what's up that they now want to force people to wear a mask?

I said all CoV-19 related work not the usual bat-stuff , that has been run in the other just level II lab...

I leave it to you to find out the name of the employee that disappeared already at day 1. (in October!)

Wyttenfact - easy to identify because no substantiating links.

We, last week, had a steep infection peek from avg. 10 to >50/day due to imported super spreaders from Swiss-Serbians coming from Belgrad clubs. But in average no new ICU/ventilation cases! 1 death in 40 days! among 1.4 mio people.

It is not the population size (1.4M) but the infected number (10 / day) that matters.

Since time to need ICU is longer than 1 week typicall a steep rise last week will obviously not impact on this.

And what are the demographics of these infections?

Surely, on this thread, we can now begin to post arguments that hold water?

THH

Zelenko et al preprint . Triple therapy prehospitalisation, Zn HCQ azithromycin.

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1/download

TX:

Only diagnosed COVID patients with the defined risk stratification requirements

of group A, B, or C got a prescription

for the following triple therapy for 5 consecutive days

in addition to standard supportive care:

zinc sulfate (220 mg capsule once daily,(containing 50 mg elemental zinc )

HCQ (200 mg twice daily),

and azithromycin (500 mg once daily).

No loading dose was used.

Tx group n=141.. UnTx group N=377

SAFETY
In general, therapy with zinc, low dose HCQ, and azithromycin was well tolerated.

After initiation of treatment 30 of 141 patients (21%) reported weakness

, 20 (14%) nausea, 15 (11%) diarrhea, and 2 (1%) rash

No patient reported palpitations or any cardiac side effect.

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS AND FUTURE RESEARCH
Almost no general clinical data of COVID outpatients exists and hence responsible
experts and stakeholders should ensure a common effort to close this gap

by designing studies specifically for primary care setting

Ongoing studies with HCQ should be amended to include combination with zinc.

Based on our and others preliminary data,
the triple therapy zinc, low dose HCQ, and azithromycin should be used and tested to generate prospective data as soon as possible.

Not an RCT..as Zelenko says

RCTs take money and time, especially with prehospitalisation patients.

Zelenko question . Given the US death rates..

.Is it better to be empirically alive than to be clinically dead?

The problem with a "good" therapy is low loss of live. One death in 100 is not a statistical entity. But with three such test sets you already can confirm the findings - what in fact is given if you look at the sum of all published HCQ studies.

Just to remind people: WHO did not stop HCQ studies for prevention and early treatment. Only applying HCQ to ICU patients has been stopped. If you favorite pharma sponsored newspaper tells something else please mail them!

DNA linked to COVID-19 was inherited from Neanderthals: Study

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news…erthals-study/ar-BB16lII5

".....The new data showed an even stronger link between the disease and the Chromosome 3 segment. People who carry two copies of the variant are three times more likely to suffer from severe illness than people who do not.....the version that raises people’s risk of severe COVID-19 is the same version found in a Neanderthal who lived in Croatia 50,000 years ago.....

People who develop severe cases of COVID-19 typically do so because their immune systems launch uncontrolled attacks that end up scarring their lungs and causing inflammation.

Dr. Paabo said the DNA segment may account in part for why people of Bangladeshi descent are dying at a high rate of COVID-19 in the United Kingdom...."

Some recent observations on WHO, HCQ, ivermectin, CNN, and politicized science --

Brazil & Hydroxychloroquine

Hydroxychloroquine, saw improvement in all patients, William O'Neill, MD

The Real Reason HCQ Never Got a Chance

More Evidence for Hydroxychloroquine as a Life-Saver; CNN Casts Doubts

https://www.trialsitenews.com/…e-saver-cnn-casts-doubts/

Quote from Wyttenbach

According to Chinse sources (people working at the lab) Xi ordered the first day of the virus escape that all probes of CoV-19 and all lab journal immediately get destroyed. So THH you are on the safe side. AS the direct evidence has gone.

The direct evidence may be gone, but the circumstantial evidence is strong for a laboratory origin. One of the mandates of the WIV funding was to find zoonotic potential sources for viral outbreaks and investigate. Flashback to 2012, when 6 people who were cleaning up an abandoned mine in southern Yunnan province were taken seriously ill with pneumonia like symptoms. Three of them died. People from the Wuhan Institute of Virology came to obtain samples and bring them back to the institute. The suspect coronavirus was named and eventually sequenced, making it into a genetic family tree. Fast forward over 7 years to January 2020, and the Bat Lady of WIV says they have a closest match to CoV-2, namely RaTG13, obtained from Southern Yunnan in 2013. This revelation was from out of the blue, supposedly previously unpublished. What she didn't say was that this RaTG13 was identical in sequence to the virus that killed the 3 people in 2012, but now under a different name. Now, RaTG13 is very similar to CoV-2, but not as much in the spike protein. Enter the pangolin coronavirus. I think it was early 2019 when the Chinese authorities intercepted some trafficked pangolins. They were sick. Workers tried to nurse them to health, but they all died. Of a coronavirus. But the spike protein of this virus is almost identical to the one of CoV-2.

All these wild corona viruses lacked one thing though : a polybasic furin cleavage site between the S1 and S2 units of the spike protein, as possessed by CoV-2. Only some distantly related coronaviruses - only 40 percent homologous to CoV-2 - have a polybasic furin cleavage site, as do other viruses like HIV. Happily though, these polybasic sites had been investigated in the last few years in the gain of function virus community, and they were realizing that such sites aided greatly in cell infectivity.

So we have what looks like the backbone for CoV-2 - RaTG13 - the one that killed the three mine cleaners. Its spike protein is replaced by the spike protein of the virus that killed the pangolins. A polybasic furin cleavage site finds its way between the two S subunits of the spike protein. A deadly outbreak then occurs in Wuhan, that happens to be home of a world famous virology institute that just happens to do research in mixing together different viruses to create more pathogenic viruses. Isn't the world just full of coincidences!

Quote from Mark U

The direct evidence may be gone, but the circumstantial evidence is strong for a laboratory origin. One of the mandates of the WIV funding was to find zoonotic potential sources for viral outbreaks and investigate. Flashback to 2012, when 6 people who were cleaning up an abandoned mine in southern Yunnan province were taken seriously ill with pneumonia like symptoms. Three of them died. People from the Wuhan Institute of Virology came to obtain samples and bring them back to the institute. The suspect coronavirus was named and eventually sequenced, making it into a genetic family tree. Fast forward over 7 years to January 2020, and the Bat Lady of WIV says they have a closest match to CoV-2, namely RaTG13, obtained from Southern Yunnan in 2013. This revelation was from out of the blue, supposedly previously unpublished. What she didn't say was that this RaTG13 was identical in sequence to the virus that killed the 3 people in 2012, but now under a different name. Now, RaTG13 is very similar to CoV-2, but not as much in the spike protein. Enter the pangolin coronavirus. I think it was early 2019 when the Chinese authorities intercepted some trafficked pangolins. They were sick. Workers tried to nurse them to health, but they all died. Of a coronavirus. But the spike protein of this virus is almost identical to the one of CoV-2.

All these wild corona viruses lacked one thing though : a polybasic furin cleavage site between the S1 and S2 units of the spike protein, as possessed by CoV-2. Only some distantly related coronaviruses - only 40 percent homologous to CoV-2 - have a polybasic furin cleavage site, as do other viruses like HIV. Happily though, these polybasic sites had been investigated in the last few years in the gain of function virus community, and they were realizing that such sites aided greatly in cell infectivity.

So we have what looks like the backbone for CoV-2 - RaTG13 - the one that killed the three mine cleaners. Its spike protein is replaced by the spike protein of the virus that killed the pangolins. A polybasic furin cleavage site finds its way between the two S subunits of the spike protein. A deadly outbreak then occurs in Wuhan, that happens to be home of a world famous virology institute that just happens to do research in mixing together different viruses to create more pathogenic viruses. Isn't the world just full of coincidences!

What a wonderful story!

Unevidenced. not just circumstantial - served up and slanted.

Such stories are fine explaining revealed truth to others who don't understand.

They don't hack it as investigative journalism, which is all about details, references, facts.

No idea what bits of the above are actually evidenced, it would be nice to know, but the way it is put together makes my hackles rise: PR not evidence.

And many people here swallow it? Well, I hope not.

Since unlikley conspiracy theories are occasionally real, I'd like to be able to investigate this hypothesis. Red meat please. If there is any.

Column: Is Gilead ripping us off with a COVID-19 treatment topping $3,000?

This is a no brainer.question .. if us = US

https://www.latimes.com/busine…s-gilead-remdesivir-price"

He (O.Day from Gilead) said faster hospital discharges resulting from treatment with remdesivir would result in “savings of approximately $12,000 per patient.”

“We have decided to price remdesivir well below this value,” O’Day said, adding that this will “ensure broad and equitable access at a time of urgent global need.”

Gilead is being honorable . with $3000.. they should really charge 12000??

Quote from THHuxleynew

Since unlikley conspiracy theories are occasionally real, I'd like to be able to investigate this hypothesis. Red meat please. If there is any.

Just writing from the top of my head, based on sources I've read and heard over the last month or so. There is enough meat on the bones that you should be able to find the sources to the stories if you care enough to search and dig. (Just don't dig into some mines in southern Yunnan province, specifically Mojiang county.) My main source was a preprint from May or early June I think, and has been submitted to Nature iirc.

Quote from Mark U

Just writing from the top of my head, based on sources I've read and heard over the last month or so. There is enough meat on the bones that you should be able to find the sources to the stories if you care enough to search and dig. (Just don't dig into some mines in southern Yunnan province, specifically Mojiang county.) My main source was a preprint from May or early June I think, and has been submitted to Nature iirc.

Mark, it is too much work: and also for a story to be believable it needs all that work. So alas if you can't remember your sources that is all wasted. Also, "read and heard" as we well know includes a lot of misinformation. That is why otehrs, if they are to come to the same conclusion as you, need to evaluate all the sources for themselves. It is not unreasonable, no more than I do regularly if I'm posting something substantial: I feel it disrespectful to do otherwise.

Covid patent landscape

Quote from THHuxleynew

Mark, it is too much work: and also for a story to be believable it needs all that work. So alas if you can't remember your sources that is all wasted. Also, "read and heard" as we well know includes a lot of misinformation. That is why otehrs, if they are to come to the same conclusion as you, need to evaluate all the sources for themselves. It is not unreasonable, no more than I do regularly if I'm posting something substantial: I feel it disrespectful to do otherwise.

Please Google this as an experiment:

Yunnan Ratg13 Covid miners pneumonia

and let me know what you get. Maybe you get no results, based on your previous browsing history?

(I get results.) Again, let us know.