that will cause a spike in numbers once deployed
Probably, but it feels like a good part of the reason of the stock market is going up a bit today so far is because of this test from Roche. If they can get a lot of people tested it will make this outbreak so much more manageable. It would be great if everyone could get tested in hotspots, and they can try to stamp this thing out with quarantines.
Probably, but it feels like a good part of the reason of the stock market is going up a bit today so far is because of this test from Roche.
Stock market never made any sense. They tend to over/under react to the events.
There is a rumor that Trump is going to declare a state of emergency. That can only mean more shut downs causing domino effects in transportation, hospitality and then retail, wholesale and so forth. What is more probable is that market players are trying to predict and buy on the bottom after reports of 'worst crash since 1987'
Streamlining the testing, while being positive news for pandemic fighting, will cause a spike in the numbers and more shutdowns.
Can't see why hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine are not being used for prophylaxis of coronavirus infection as they have been used in the past for malaria. I have managed to order both now over the internet. Half the recommended dose for malaria would probably be effective since the Ki's from in vitro data are down at 0.37 and 1.1 uM respectively. So as soon as I have the first symptoms of dry cough and sore throat with fever I'll find out how quickly the symptoms disappear with 100 mg hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine combined with 5 mg losartan and a gram or two of fresh organic coconut oil! Anyone else interested in surviving the epidemic?
Stock market never made any sense. They tend to over/under react to the events.
There is a rumor that Trump is going to declare a state of emergency. That can only mean more shut downs causing domino effects in transportation, hospitality and then retail, wholesale and so forth. What is more probable is that market players are trying to predict and buy on the bottom after reports of 'worst crash since 1987'
Streamlining the testing, while being positive news for pandemic fighting, will cause a spike in the numbers and more shutdowns.
Yeah, put me in the camp that people are being overly optimistic - especialy here in the U.S. The WHO is now saying the epicenter of the virus is in Europe and not China. How long can Spain, Germany and France go without a full shutdown like Italy? Spain is +1200 cases today. That puts it in-line with Iran and Italy.
I suggest you take that up with the UK's Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Adviser.
I would, were the UK transparent about the modelling data and calculations on which they base their statements.
In any case, they merely say "could be 5K - 10K" they do not say "we know there are 5K - 10K". It was a political statement not a scientific one.
Just read on BBC that - Europe now epicentre of pandemic. More cases per day than China at its peak!
I find it stunning after we have had the warning from China and some time to prepare that Europe could be so slack on this.
After some very interesting comments on this board I have stopped taking my Lisinopril (only 5mb anyway) and taking vitamin D.
But I do not judge this pandemic as risky enough to take the alternative risk of ordering strong meds online. If the lethality was higher then maybe I would consider the risk worth taking.
Of course there are all sorts of guesses from Fauci and the WHO and the UK on different estimates.
QuoteFor those interested, Travelpharm in the UK has Cloroquinone 20x250 mg for £20.00 delivered. Dose is 2 tabs a week, suitable for use as anti-malarial in SE Asia only.
Is a prescription required? Also, if someone is exposed to COVID-19, you may want to consider a larger "loading dose." As much as 1 gram. Check with your health provider.
Quotebut you know that no authorities will recommend it [chloroquine] publicly
You do, do you? Must be omniscient.
QuoteSo as soon as I have the first symptoms of dry cough and sore throat with fever I'll find out how quickly the symptoms disappear with 100 mg hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine combined with 5 mg losartan and a gram or two of fresh organic coconut oil! Anyone else interested in surviving the epidemic?
Hopefully, you are not going to get it. First line of defense is hygiene and protection to avoid exposure. Be aware that at least one young person (in his thirties) in China was treated with everything: intubation, respirator, even ECMO, chloroquine and remdesivir, two other antivirals, convalescent serum from recovered patients, standard antibiotics, and "traditional" Chinese medicine and died rapidly anyway from pneumonia. I misplaced the link (sorry). It was one of the doctors who got sick.
Chloroquine could work but caution, it is an immune inhibitor so whether or not taking it before infection is wise is unclear. If you're thinking using Losartan because it is an ACE receptor blocker (ARB), this is apparently a bad premise. The virus attachment point is an ACE-II receptor and ACE-II receptors are, one can read, not significantly blocked by ARB's. Bummer. A lot of stuff is being tried and hopefully we'll eventually know what works, just as we eventually learned what could help with Ebola.
QuoteAfter some very interesting comments on this board I have stopped taking my Lisinopril (only 5mb anyway) and taking vitamin D.
But I do not judge this pandemic as risky enough to take the alternative risk of ordering strong meds online. If the lethality was higher then maybe I would consider the risk worth taking.
Of course there are all sorts of guesses from Fauci and the WHO and the UK on different estimates
If your lisinopril is for high blood pressure, you are ill-advised to stop it. The issue in coronavirus seems to be ACE-II and not ACE. ACE-II is not significantly affected by ACE inhibitors, per what I have read. See prior links and discussions in this string. And of course, always check with your health care provider.
Vitamins are pretty safe but may not do much. It is interesting that there is a lot of literature suggesting that high doses (>5000 IU of D3) could be an anti-viral. However, there is literature that says it is no better than placebo. So the role of vitamin D is unclear. Moderate amounts are safe. Huge amounts, maybe not so much. Same with large amounts for long periods. The problem is that D affects calcium metabolism and may cause calcium deposits in organs like blood vessels including those in the heart (coronary arteries). One thing for sure, you do not want to be deficient in vitamins and vitamin D synthesis in people requires skin sunlight exposure. So taking moderate amounts makes good sense.
As for zinc, it probably has been chose to work against rhinovirus which causes common colds. I don't know how similar to coronavirus it is. And the only good studies I know of involve a specific preparation and strength -- around 10-15 mg of zinc gluconate glycine in a lozenge. Good idea to take one at bed time. Long story but some studies suggest aspiration at night of upper tract cells containing virus may be how the lower lung gets infected, which is what kills. Once again, much more data are required!
Here is an early study of zinc and common colds: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8678384
Study on best compound of zinc
Here are all the classical references on zinc gluconate glycine (Cold Eeze lozenges in the US) . https://www.coldeeze.com/en/our-proven-clinical-studies
Note this is for *oral* lozenges with zinc gluconate glycine, not any other compound of zinc. Particularly avoid any nasal spray containing zinc as it can damage or destroy your sense of smell.
$12M lawsuit againt Zicam: click here- link is too long to show
Display MoreJust read on BBC that - Europe now epicentre of pandemic. More cases per day than China at its peak!
I find it stunning after we have had the warning from China and some time to prepare that Europe could be so slack on this.
After some very interesting comments on this board I have stopped taking my Lisinopril (only 5mb anyway) and taking vitamin D.
But I do not judge this pandemic as risky enough to take the alternative risk of ordering strong meds online. If the lethality was higher then maybe I would consider the risk worth taking.
Of course there are all sorts of guesses from Fauci and the WHO and the UK on different estimates.
China will need to keep lock-down for 1 year, I expect. they have no herd immunity at the low levels of infection they currently have. They can do it. I doubt any western countries could. And western countries reckon that 1 year lockdown is too destructive for economy.
If we could prevent pandemic a very strict lockdown right at start would be correct thing.
Maybe I'm wrong - given lockdowns everywhere it could be beaten: you would then just need absolute isolation of anyone coming from countries where civil society does not work so well that were still infected.
There are two ways out: you let 50% + of your population get it, or you lock down until a vaccine comes or everyone is clear.
In the US lockdown is just I think not possible, too many people avoid the authorities for one reason or another so tracing all cases will not work.
The UK has gone for a short sharp "let 50% of population get it". Which makes sense, if you can well isolate the 20% most at risk. In fact arguably we should encourage early exposure of all non-at-risk young people at start of a 2 week period during which all at risk people are in lockdown. That way you get get herd immunity in just a few weeks. Many fewer people would die.
THHuxleynew What you want to accomplish is to suppress the epidemic until *effective* antivirals and vaccines can be developed. It seems likely (but not certain) that they can.
BTW, here is an article on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine toxicity. People with glaucoma or degeneration of the retina or macula should be especially cautious. However, if you look at the incidence of complications in the eye, it's low.
The UK has gone for a short sharp "let 50% of population get it". Which makes sense
No, that makes no sense. That would be the most lethal outcome. If 50% of the population is going to get it, you want them to get it over the longest period of time possible. You want to stretch it out. Otherwise, the hospitals are overwhelmed. Here is an interactive graph for the U.S. showing how that works:
https://www.nytimes.com/intera…virus-trump-response.html
(Note that N.Y. Times articles about the coronavirus are no longer behind the paywall.)
Here are the two key graphs showing the effect of stretching out the epidemic:
The effective antivirals are already here - why is the West doing nothing about it?
Ding Yining
16:24 UTC+8, 2020-02-20
Multinational and local drugmakers are speeding up manufacturing and supply of chloroquine phosphate after the anti-malarial drug was included in the latest version of treatment guidelines for novel coronavirus pneumonia by the National Health Commission.
The commission on Wednesday issued the sixth version of its diagnosis and treatment plan for the novel coronavirus to include treatment measures such as chemical drugs and traditional Chinese herbal injections.
More than 100 patients have been included in clinical trials in a dozen hospitals in Beijing and Guangdong and Hunan provinces, according to Sun Yanrong, deputy head of the China National Center for Biotechnology Development under the Ministry of Science and Technology.
2 Photos | View Slide Show ›
Bayer said its has expedited supply and transportation of 300,000 tablets of Resochin (chloroquine phosphate) from one of its subsidiaries in Pakistan after receiving a request from the Guangdong provincial government.
The first batch of Resochin was prepared and delivered within 24 hours.
Resochin was a compound first discovered at Bayer laboratories and introduced into clinical practice in 1947 for malaria treatment.
“We hope to fully leverage our health-care expertise and support China's ongoing efforts to fight the epidemic, as well as quarantine work, and we'll stay committed to medical workers and patients," said Jiang Wei, president of Bayer Group China and president of Bayer Pharmaceuticals Region China & APAC.
Guangzhou Baiyunshan Pharmaceutical Holdings Company said one of its drug subsidiaries also received a temporary drug registration license from the National Medical Products Administration to resume production of chloroquine phosphate tablet. Guangzhou Baiyunshan Guanghua Pharma has resumed full production capacity and has a daily capacity of 2 million tablets.
Guangdong Zhongsheng Pharmaceutical Co has provided drug samples to hospitals in Jinzhou, Hubei Province, and Beijing to work on effective treatment for the pneumonia.
China Meheco Group Co and China Resources Group are also among those which are stepping up production.
Chongqing Southwest No.2 Pharmaceutical Factory Co completed production of the first batch of 140,000 chloroquine phosphate tablets on Tuesday, which will go through quality assurance and assessment.
China Resources Group now has inventory of more than 325,000 boxes and is preparing for further demand.
Shanghai Pharma's wholly owned unit has resumed production since February 3 and has already delivered its first batch of chloroquine phosphate.
Source: SHINE Editor: Wang Yanlin
Display MoreNo, that makes no sense. That would be the most lethal outcome. If 50% of the population is going to get it, you want them to get it over the longest period of time possible. You want to stretch it out. Otherwise, the hospitals are overwhelmed. Here is an interactive graph for the U.S. showing how that works:
https://www.nytimes.com/intera…virus-trump-response.html
(Note that N.Y. Times articles about the coronavirus are no longer behind the paywall.)
Here are the two key graphs showing the effect of stretching out the epidemic:
just reading this article below about the UK makes me think this has to be one of the biggest medical experiments in history. Boris Johnson is either going to look really smart or incompetent in a few months time:
Australia forgoes the ultimate sacrifice..
cancelling the cricket.. for the time being.
just reading this article below about the UK makes me think this has to be one of the biggest medical experiments in history. Boris Johnson is either going to look really smart or incompetent in a few months time:
with all my disrespect to Boris, he did very good during the presser letting the bboffins to talk. They are trying to balance different risk factors including people's tendency to get tired of active measure. Meanwhile our Jed gets into technical curve analysis as some stock market purist do.
I am watching a US presidential news conference with disbelief. It is an assembly of industry and political leaders and infectious disease specialists. They are all standing close together, adjusting the same microphone with bare hands, grasping the podium one after the other and using no precautions whatsoever. It is incredibly stupid and a horrible example. The reporters are no smarter. They are passing around a microphone and they all grasp it.
Admittedly the risk is still low because of the still small number of cases in the US but what an example to set for the rest of the country. It is like advocating safe sex from a venue where a vigorous orgy is going on with nobody using condoms.
!!!!
