Covid-19 News

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    JedRothwell

    Of course good sanitary practices save lives. The post was opposing those (and there are quite a few, usually the same whackoes who oppose vaccines) who say that vaccination, antibiotics and medical interventions other than public health and sanitation are not important. These same miscreants maintain that better sanitation and personal hygiene are essentially the only things which account for longer life expectancy in modern as opposed to two or more hundred years ago -- a completely absurd claim.


    A minor aside: in some instances, too much sanitation and precautions are not good. For example, it's best to expose children early to some level of dirt and soil and to introduce them early to small amounts of often allergenic foods like shellfish and peanuts. These practices have been shown to "train" the immune system to react appropriately to certain antigens. That's OTC.


    No need to exaggerate. Lots of people like myself who believe that vaccines are far overrated - and for some people very dangerous - see great use for other medical interventions like antibiotics and antivirals . It is no secret that clean water, plumbing, sanitation, nutrition, stress reduction and education lead to longer, healthier lives. It is no secret that deaths due to all infectious diseases in the US were declining rapidly in the early twentieth century before the vaccine regime took hold. It is also well known by parents of children who are mixed - vaccinated and not - that their unvaccinated children are healthier. Antigen exposure through natural means primes the immune system nicely, something going back millions of years in our evolutionary history. Injecting modified antigen directly into the body, bypassing the epithelial/mucosal immune defence, and combining it with toxic preservatives and especially adjuvants like aluminum (toxic to life) specifically chosen to put the Th2 (antibody) immune response into a tizzy, is asking for trouble.

    Quote from Mark U

    No need to exaggerate. Lots of people like myself who believe that vaccines are far overrated - and for some people very dangerous


    You may believe that, but you are wrong.


    They are dangerous for a very tiny number of people.


    Quote from Mark U

    It is also well known by parents of children who are mixed - vaccinated and not - that their unvaccinated children are healthier


    No, this is not "well known." It is wrong. The thing is, facts are facts. Science is based on facts, which are measured and confirmed. Two centuries of medical science prove beyond doubt that vaccines are effective and safe. You can't just make stuff up and say it is true. The whole problem with cold fusion is a bunch of people at the Scientific American and Wikipedia who make stuff up and then claim it is true.


    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/index.html


    It's well known to those who have bothered to do the research.


    You don't know, because you haven't personally researched these things. You're just swallowing and regurgitating what the pharmaceutical industry and it's associated, incestuous government partners like the CDC and NIH are saying. ("Vaccines are safe and effective.") With regard to vaccines, you are like the person who goes to Wikipedia to determine the validity of cold fusion, and that's good enough.


    There is a reason that pharma is 'immune' from litigation from vaccine injury (since the late 1980s). They were going broke and coerced the government to intervene. Now it's the federal government paying damages for vaccine injury in a pseudo court, and they've paid out about five Billion dollars thus far. And that's only for the small percentage of families who were informed enough and determined enough and lucky enough to make it through the bureaucracy.


    You probably don't know that, unlike drugs, vaccines almost never go through true placebo studies. You probably don't know why studies like the one in Denmark to test the safety of the MMR vaccine are fatally flawed. You probably don't know that the infant mortality rates of vaccinated children in Africa is several times that of comparable unvaccinated populations in Africa. You probably don't know about the Mawson pilot study out of Mississippi state, or the stats from thousands of patients of paediatrician Dr. Paul Thomas. You probably don't know that government agencies still refuse to do a vaccinated vs (fully) unvaccinated study, or that Denmark, who already has those numbers at hand, willfully did not present that data.


    But you believe that a covid19 vaccine will save us. No. The virus will attenuate naturally, and will be of little concern in a year or two. In the meantime I hope that people here are making sure they try to minimize their viral exposure and are getting proper rest and amounts of their A, B6, C and E 'vitamins'.

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/…nation-campaign-2020.html


    Smallpox eliminated... polio almost


    Pakistan kicks off 2020 anti-polio campaign

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/…nation-campaign-2020.html


    Vaccination is justified for debiltating scourges like these.


    For lesser evils such as flu on the other hand the cost/benefit/side effects profile is less attractive.


    Still, I would recommend that my 92 year old Dad takes both the current pneumococcus and flu vaccine..


    Covid 19 seems to be cutting a swathe thru the elderly Wuhan population.

    Some deaths may be due to secondary infection.

    Quote from Mark U

    It's well known to those who have bothered to do the research.


    Researchers at the CDC have measured the effects and the dangers of vaccinations. Researchers have measured these effects for 150 years! They know the facts. You are not part of come secret cabal of people who know better than they do.


    Getting back to cold fusion, your way of thinking is the problem. Experts such as Bockris measure heat, tritium and other physical effects. They publish their findings. They show that the results are supported by thermodynamics and calorimetry going back to J. P. Joule. And then people like you come out of the woodwork claiming to know better than Bockris. You have some special knowledge that magically debunks 150 years of science. No, you don't. The numbers do not lie.


    The lesson of cold fusion is that the experts are right: the experimental method, peer review and other conventional methods work. Cold fusion researchers are accused of being a lunatic fringe of true believers. It is just the opposite. The editors at Scientific American and Nature are the lunatic fringe. Cold fusion researchers are "painfully conventional people," as Martin Fleischmann put it.


    Yes for certain populations is it is probably best to have certain vaccines. Also, certain diseases can be irradiated from the planet this way.

    It's all benefit-risk assessment. Contrast this with the 'swathe' approach in the US. Newborns are getting vaccinated with the Hep B vaccine, a disease of that only a tiny fraction of mothers would have.

    Certain (Democratic) states like California are recently making vaccinations mandatory. Want to miss just one of the 72 (or so) doses of vaccines kids in the US are scheduled to get by the age of 16? You're banned from school. Totally Orwellian. Maybe the adults will be next. Papers please. What, no vaccination for whooping cough in the last ten years? No drivers licence renewal for you.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Researchers at the CDC have measured the effects and the dangers of vaccinations. Researchers have measured these effects for 150 years! They know the facts. You are not part of come secret cabal of people who know better than they do.


    Getting back to cold fusion, your way of thinking is the problem. Experts such as Bockris measure heat, tritium and other physical effects. They publish their findings. They show that the results are supported by thermodynamics and calorimetry going back to J. P. Joule. And then people like you come out of the woodwork claiming to know better than Bockris. You have some special knowledge that magically debunks 150 years of science. No, you don't. The numbers do not lie.


    The lesson of cold fusion is that the experts are right: the experimental method, peer review and other conventional methods work. Cold fusion researchers are accused of being a lunatic fringe of true believers. It is just the opposite. The editors at Scientific American and Nature are the lunatic fringe. Cold fusion researchers are "painfully conventional people," as Martin Fleischmann put it.


    Jed, my thinking is consistent. You wrongly think I believe Wiki when it comes to cold fusion. I don't. Wiki represents the mainstream, institutional view, which history has shown time and again to be mistaken. While I don't believe some cold fusion results, I believe others, like M&F's and what is coming out of Essex.

    After two weeks evacuation started from the Yokohama cruise ship. The story went on as I predicted. All people that stay will be infected at the end. Current high score 500 of 4000...Now the US folks have left.


    What can we learn: Cov-19 is just one more flue we all will get once or even many times as the chances for a vaccine are very low up to date. There is no reason for panic as in western standard health environment this will not add significantly to the overall death toll. Do not believe that 14 days quarantine are any help. Longest incubation seen up to date is 94 days for similar corona... There are always exceptions what makes live a fun.


    The best you probably can do is to get a small infection that only causes the immune system to learn the virus. Worst is always a full contact with an heavily infected body.

    Quote from Mark U

    You wrongly think I believe Wiki when it comes to cold fusion. I don't. Wiki represents the mainstream, institutional view, which history has shown time and again to be mistaken.

    Wiki does not represent the mainstream, institutional view of cold fusion. On the contrary, it represents the whack-doodle anti-science lunatic fringe. As does the Scientific American. The people at Wiki and Sci. Am.have the mistaken notion that they represent the mainstream, but they are wrong. By definition, the "mainstream" in experimental science is whatever the experimental evidence has revealed. If most scientists disagree with that finding, they are outside the mainstream. Nature defines the mainstream, not people.


    You have learned the wrong lessons from cold fusion. History has shown time and again that experts are right. That the scientific method works, the experimental method and peer-review work, and "painfully conventional" experts such as Fleischmann are right, and the lunatic fringe is wrong. With regard to vaccinations, you are in the lunatic fringe, and the CDC experts are right. It is a myth that mainstream institutions are often wrong. You mistake is in thinking that Scientific American and Wiki are mainstream, and the J. Electroanalytical Chem. is fringe.


    (Scientific American is usually mainstream, but in this particular case they are off in cloud cuckoo land.)

    Quote

    You don't know, because you haven't personally researched these things.

    I'm curious what you mean by "research." Do you mean you conducted long term studies yourself or were part of a team who did? Or did you read it on the internet or somewhere else? Those are not the same things yet people apply the designation "research" to both. That applies to virus studies, vaccinations, and many other things.

    Quote from Mark U

    Want to miss just one of the 72 (or so) doses of vaccines kids in the US are scheduled to get by the age of 16?

    They do not administer 72 doses. I have children, and they were never given that many doses. But if the experts said 72 is the right number, or 720, I would not argue. I grew up in a world without vaccinations for many childhood diseases, which I ended up getting. It did not make me stronger. It made me miserable, and left me vulnerable to shingles in later life. It might have killed me. Children were not stronger or healthier or better off when polio and rubella infected millions of people. It was horrible.


    Your notions are dangerous, misguided bullshit, without any basis in science or common sense. You apparently know nothing of history.


    Quote from Mark U

    You're banned from school. Totally Orwellian. Maybe the adults will be next. Papers please.

    That is how it was when I was growing up. Everyone had to be vaccinated. Adults included. When the vaccine for polio was invented, the government ordered everyone in the U.S. to get it. I remember lining up with all the other adults and children and getting it. When I got to the front of the line, I found out it was a sugar cube and not a shot. I was relieved, and I thought, "this isn't so bad."


    Damn right we should enforce that. It is not Orwellian. It is common sense. If the Wuhan flu has a 0.4% mortality rate and it comes to the U.S., hundreds of thousands of people will die. If a vaccine is invented in time, no one will die. It will be cut off and driven into extinction. So if a vaccine is invented, I sure hope the government forces everyone to take it. Your personal freedom to be an idiot and pretend medical science does not work must not be allowed to cost thousands of lives. That would be like claiming your personal desire should allow you to drive at 90 miles and hour on a suburban street in front of a school.

    The New York Times reports the mortality rate is now estimated at 2.3% by the Chinese CDC. That compares to the rate of 0.1 for ordinary influenza. The Times also reports that the Director of a hospital in Wuhan has died of the disease. That is ominous because presumably he got the best possible care. People who get first-class medical care seldom die from ordinary influenza.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0…ia/china-coronavirus.html


    Courtesy of the Bloomberg campaign, here is Pres. Trump's take on the coronavirus. Here is what Trump said in a recent video:


    "The virus. They are working hard. Looks like by April, you know in theory, when it gets a little warmer it miraculously goes away. Hope that's true! Rough stuff, I tell you. Rough, rough stuff."


    Trump plans to cut the CDC and other world health budgets by $3 billion.


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    If an ordinary person on the bus said something like this, you would think he is drunk or crazy, and you would move away from him.


    It is true that influenza epidemics tend to abate in warmer months, but they do not miraculously go away. Here is the mortality rate per month for the 1918 - 1919 influenza epidemic in England:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…918_spanish_flu_waves.gif



    This comment of mine may seem political, but I think it is important to note what the president of the United States has to say about the worst disease crisis since the emergence of AIDS. The coronavirus might kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, and millions of people elsewhere in the world. The president says he thinks it will miraculously go away in April.

    • Official Post

    JedRothwell, I can't tell with any degree of certainty, but There is increasing "web noise" of public healthcare systems already being put to stress due to people being monitored for Covid-19. At least one local media in Washington reports 712 people under monitoring fro probable Covid-19.


    https://www.theepochtimes.com/…rus-symptoms_3241628.html


    Earlier today there was a video in a YT channel that was allegedly from a healthcare professional in a NY hospital hysterically complaining of a cover up of massive cases, and that many of them, confirmed to have the virus, were being sent home. The video was later removed and then it was uploaded again but in private mode. The video had the badge and names of the persons making the claims, so it was a public suicide if proven to be fake.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    If a vaccine is invented in time, no one will die.


    This is bare nonsense: Measles - sporadic cases - in Europe usually kill vaccinated people because the vaccine never cover all strains.


    For influenza it is impossible to develop a 100% covering vaccine as the variation of the virus is to broad. and please remember that thousand of vaccinated people end up with GB syndrome due to some unluckily correlation with other infections.

    May be you also never did hear about "scalen" or aluminium hydroxide: , aluminium phosphate, and aluminium potassium sulfate used as adjuvant, what helps to make more money with using a lower doses. Many people, about 8%, have a high genetic risk with an long term allergic reaction to aluminum. Something no doctor will tell you.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    This is bare nonsense: Measles - sporadic cases - in Europe usually kill vaccinated people because the vaccine never cover all strains.


    For influenza it is impossible to develop a 100% covering vaccine as the variation of the virus is to broad.

    You are overlooking something. This is only one strain. A vaccine for this one will immunize against it. The regular annual flu vaccine has to target a variety of different strains, and they can never be sure ahead of time which is likely to present. As you said, the variation of the flu virus is broad, but not for one specific strain.


    This strain has not had time to evolve into a variety of different types, so probably one vaccine will be effective against it.


    Furthermore, a vaccine will prevent all deaths if it is administered before the disease spreads widely. Normally, a vaccine fails for a small number of people. They are scattered through the population. If this strain is stopped before it spreads, it is not likely to reach any of those unlucky people. So, even though they will not be protected by the vaccine, they will be protected by herd immunity.

    WHO Daily situation reports are at https://www.who.int/emergencie…s-2019/situation-reports/
    There are also audio files of daily briefings (and some transcripts) https://www.who.int/emergencie…resources/press-briefings

    Today's report says no new countries reporting.
    Total deaths 1873/73,332 cases = 2.5% fatality rate ... skewed heavily to older people , with " relatively few cases among children".

    Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00361-5 says the transmission rate R0 may vary between 1.5 and 4.5

    Here's an unreviewed paper from Feb 11 https://cmmid.github.io/ncov/wuhan_early_dynamics/index.html (Funk) -- suggesting it may have peaked in Wuhan

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