Covid-19 (WuFlu) News

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    Coronavirus and chloroquine: Has its use been approved in ... http://www.bbc.co.uk › news 18 hours ago - President Trump claims a drug used against malaria has been approved in the United States to treat the new coronavirus. Chloroquine is one of the oldest and best-known anti-malarial drugs. ... President Trump, at his daily press briefing, claimed that chloroquine had been approved for ...

    Panic-buying in Nigeria

    The coronavirus pandemic is on the lips of every Nigerian at churches, mosques and schools, reports Daniel Semeniworima, of the BBC's Pidgin service in Lagos.

    Many Nigerian households still use tablets containing chloroquine for treating malaria even though it was banned in 2005.

    News of a February study in China about the use of chloroquine for the coronavirus had already sparked lively debate in Lagos, so people were stocking up.

    Following Mr Trump's reference to chloroquine as a coronavirus treatment, this ramped up and shops and chemists sold out of the drug very quickly.

    But the Nigerian Centres for Disease Control has told people to stop taking it.

    "The WHO has NOT approved the use of chloroquine for #COVID19 management."


    Oh well I suppose this latest report proves chloroquine is still widely used in Africa despite the 2005 WHO ban, as I thought. Several cases of overdoses but fortunately no fatalities.. So maybe this is why so few cases of coronavirus due to its use in treating fevers. We must follow up on its possible prophylactic potential to end the pandemic as in China.

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    The French SANOFI laboratory has offered 1 million doses of PLAQUENIL (chloroquine) for treating 300,000 patients contaminated with Covid19..

    That's what you call a clinical trial.

    In the US, Bayer has also made an identical offer. Another maker is Teva from Israel. Not sure their status.


    I am not sure I understand. The numbers are certainly sufficient but they are way more than sufficient and there are risks. A proper clinical trial would be much smaller and much more manageable. It requires a control population that does not get the drug. They must be matched to those who do get it, for a variety of parameters. There needs to be proper testing for all sorts of tests and documentation and followup. Otherwise, nobody will know WTF is actually going on. Next, Plaquenil is not the proprietary name for chloroquine. It's hydroxychloroquine, a variant which may be more potenr *and* safer. Finally, any reasonable study would also include an arm of patients getting both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin because the Marseilles study, while extremely tentative, does suggest this could make a big difference. This is all simple scientific method and there is peril in ignoring it.


    The frustrating thing here is that a proper and adequate experimental trial of a protocol of hydroxychloroquine with and without azithromycin could be performed in a relatively short time and comparatively modest time (a few months). I hope this is being done in many places and being done properly with adequate funds.


    Another issue is that it could turn out that the proposed dual drug therapy is useful and effective in early cases but does not work after the disease has progressed to consolidation of the lungs with or without so-called cytokine storm. For that condition, it may be that monoclonal antibodies, gamma globulin (convalescent serum) or other strategies are more effective.

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    Oh well I suppose this latest report proves chloroquine is still widely used in Africa despite the 2005 WHO ban, as I thought. Several cases of overdoses but fortunately no fatalities

    I don't know about Africa but worldwide, as you can easily Google, best in Google/Scholar, there are definitely fatalities. Some are accidental overdoses and others are suicides. It does not take much. And the real incidence of cardiac adverse events including deaths is poorly documented and may be much larger than reported. Because evidence so far suggests that hydroxychloroquine is safer and more antivirally potent than chloroquine, it is to be preferred for "putative" use against COVID-19.

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    My order for chloroquine seems to be held up in US customs. Damn deep state.

    Mine was not. Perhaps your family doctor can give you a prescription and you can go get it in person. I've heard of that. Unfortunately going anywhere in person these days has its own risks.

    Where did you order from?

  • A second order of hydroxychloroquine I made has been held up too from the same source (Trustpharmacy.com). Maybe they think I'm going to spread it around-they also sampled one of the first batch pills presumably for illegal drugs. Deep Nanny State.

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    It is black and white thinking - ignoring the existence of trade-offs - that sounds good but is medically and scientifically bad.

    Some of us, who have been able to obtain some supplies of the medicines under consideration may have to make decisions soon in real life and it won't be easy. My approach would be to consider how severe the COVID-19 clinical condition of the patient is and to balance that against their heart status and decide the dose if any arbitrarily on that basis. I'd try to get a cardiology consult as well and to do EKG monitoring. EKG device for home use available from Amazon are pretty good so you can send a tracing to your health provider without going in. This is probably the best currently for $150 in the US:

    https://www.amazon.com/AliveCo…dp/B07RQW6SD5/ref=sr_1_3?


    Note it requires an app. I have one and tried it preliminarily. On the iPhone, the tracing is difficult to see. Uploaded to a computer,, it's much better and suitable to be emailed to your health provider. It is quite enough to measure Q-T interval, one of the parameters in deciding whether or not chloroquine derivatives are safe. Also to see if complications in rhythm due to azithromycin occur. Obviously, you need medical experience to interpret the result but you need no experience to forward it to an appropriate person.


    And please please please remember, the data from Marseilles is very preliminary, the study has glaring faults, and the whole thing could possibly be wrong.

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    A second order of hydroxychloroquine I made has been held up too from the same source (Trustpharmacy.com). Maybe they think I'm going to spread it around-they also sampled one of the first batch pills presumably for illegal drugs. Deep Nanny State.

    BUMMER!!!!


    BTW: trustpharmcy.com does not seem to exist at this time:


    Quote

    Trustpharmacy.com

    READY FOR DEVELOPMENT

    If you're interested in this domain, contact us to check availability for ownership, customer use, partnership or other development opportunities.

  • From Mitchell Swartz MD...on the co-treatment antibiotic.


    Azithromycin induces anti-viral responses in bronchial epithelial cells

    https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/36/3/646

    " Azithromycin, but not erythromycin or telithromycin, significantly increased rhinovirus 1B- and rhinovirus 16-induced interferons and interferon-stimulated gene mRNA expression and protein production. Furthermore, azithromycin significantly reduced rhinovirus replication and release. Rhinovirus induced IL-6 and IL-8 protein and mRNA expression were not significantly reduced by azithromycin pre-treatment.

    In conclusion, the results demonstrate that azithromycin has anti-rhinoviral activity in bronchial epithelial cells and, during rhinovirus infection, increases the production of interferon-stimulated genes."

  • Coronavirus, far as I know, is not a rhinovirus. It is a picornavirus. Structure is somewhat similar. I'm not a virologist but I am pretty sure antiviral action is highly specific to the type of virus so I would not rely on the above report.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinovirus


    I think Dr. Swartz is a medical doctor (is he ?) but he seems to be promoting consistently sketchy/dubious/premature information without appropriate qualification.

  • But the Nigerian Centres for Disease Control has told people to stop taking it. (chloroquine)


    That's exactly the problem. You should not take it until you are sure you got it (covid-19) !! Else you have to take for your live and may be you kill your neighbor that would need it and can't get it anymore.

    " Azithromycin, but not erythromycin or telithromycin, significantly increased rhinovirus 1B- and rhinovirus 16-induced interferons and interferon-stimulated gene mRNA expression and protein production. Furthermore, azithromycin significantly reduced rhinovirus replication and release. Rhinovirus induced IL-6 and IL-8 protein and mRNA expression were not significantly reduced by azithromycin pre-treatment.


    Coronavirus, far as I know, is not a rhinovirus. It is a picornavirus. Structure is somewhat similar. I'm not a virologist but I am pretty sure antiviral action is highly specific to the type of virus so I would not rely on the above report.


    The antibiotic is added for people that already have an inflammation of the lung. It should avoid parasitic secondary damage especially by plasmodium or other virus. That's what Japanese doctors say.

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    The antibiotic is added for people that already have an inflammation of the lung. It should avoid parasitic secondary damage especially by plasmodium or other virus. That's what Japanese doctors say

    Nonsense. Did you even read the paper from Marseilles by Raoult et, al.? Not "the antibiotic" but specifically (so far) azithromycin is added for ANTIVIRAL effect, not antibacterial effect.


    Damage by plasmodium? What part of the world? Certainly not in the US or Eutope.


    Other virus? There is no evidence additional infection (so called "superinfection") with different viruses is a factor in COVID-19 infection. In all viral infections of the lung, BACTERIAL, not viral, superinfection should be prevented in the elderly or those with progressing pneumonia. In of uncomplicated infection with COVID-19, that is not what the Azithromycin is for. And Azithromycin is perhaps not the best antibiotic for bacterial pneumonia. Ampiciilin with clavulonic acid (Augmentin in the US) may be better as may Cipro and similar drugs. An infectious diseases expert, treating a specific patient, would decide on a case by case basis and (important) following sputum culture and sensitivity tests.


    Geez Wyttenbach why do you insist on posting misleading and wrong information. Do you just make it up as you go along? Are you just putting random words together? And no, it's not a language issue. For that, we have Google Translate.

  • JedRothwell Any idea Dr. Swartz's specialty? And if he currently is practicing? I find his posts disturbing. I would be upset to learn that he is treating COVID-19 cases.


    BTW, I don't want this discussion to be "behind his back." I am happy to discuss the issues (not personalities) with him here or anywhere he likes.


    I am constantly mystified by why people say and write what they do.


    Just for fun, my pet peeve: People who answer questions about Amazon products on the Amazon web site like "I don't know. I never used the product." Baffling. And sort of comical that people are that stupid.