Italian government proposes antibody test to let people go back to work.
Weighing an idea that might once have been relegated to science fiction, Italy once again finds itself in the unfortunate vanguard of Western democracies grappling with the coronavirus."
Display MoreItalian government proposes antibody test to let people go back to work.
"In Italy, Going Back to Work May Depend on Having the Right Antibodies
Weighing an idea that might once have been relegated to science fiction, Italy once again finds itself in the unfortunate vanguard of Western democracies grappling with the coronavirus."
From the article:
"Having the right antibodies to the virus in one’s blood — a potential marker of immunity — may soon determine who gets to work and who does not, who is locked down and who is free."
So when do the Italians with "the wrong antibodies" rebel against discrimination? They become second class citizens, can't leave their house, can't work, cannot support their families. All because they are genetically inferior to those blessed with a resistance to the virus. It is just a matter of time before they say: "enough, is enough", and take to the streets.
Will they have to wear a patch with "I have bad COVID antibodies" on their shirts, so everyone knows to stay away from them? Where does this all end?
Display MoreItalian government proposes antibody test to let people go back to work.
"In Italy, Going Back to Work May Depend on Having the Right Antibodies
Weighing an idea that might once have been relegated to science fiction, Italy once again finds itself in the unfortunate vanguard of Western democracies grappling with the coronavirus."
Only “IF” they are no longer infectious.
I don’t think anyone anywhere knows this yet.
Once your body is infected, fights off the infection and produces antibodies:
1. Can you be reinfected? Don’t know
2. Can you pass on the infection? Don’t know
"Snopes" is known for dispelling myths, or falsehoods. Just so everyone knows, while Snopes is mentioned in the headline, they did not write the article, nor endorse it, and instead provided this disclaimer:
"This content is shared here because the topic may interest Snopes readers; it does not, however, represent the work of Snopes fact-checkers or editors."
I mention this not to detract from the author's belief that HCQ may be ineffective, but so that no one gives added weight to his conclusions, because of any perceived association with Snopes.
Covid-19 attacks and takes over all the cells that use the ACE2 receptor for signaling: lungs, heart, gut, liver. Covid-19 will cause these cells to malfunction and lead to associated organ failure. I expect that many victims die of heart problems before the lungs fail. Chloroquine might keep the lungs doing, but the victim might die due from some other organ failure.
A victim will oftentimes be placed on a dialysis unit because the kidneys are disrupted due to ACE2 signaling interference.
QuoteI am a physician who has been working at the bedside of COVID+ patients in NYC. I believe we are treating the wrong disease and that we must change what we are doing if we want to save as many lives as possible. I welcome any feedback, especially from those bedside: doctors, nurses, xray techs, pharmacists, anyone and everyone. Does this sound wrong or right, is something more right?
Display MoreFrom the article:
"Having the right antibodies to the virus in one’s blood — a potential marker of immunity — may soon determine who gets to work and who does not, who is locked down and who is free."
So when do the Italians with "the wrong antibodies" rebel against discrimination? They become second class citizens, can't leave their house, can't work, cannot support their families. All because they are genetically inferior to those blessed with a resistance to the virus. It is just a matter of time before they say: "enough, is enough", and take to the streets.
Will they have to wear a patch with "I have bad COVID antibodies" on their shirts, so everyone knows to stay away from them? Where does this all end?
Shane, you are now on the wrong side of this argument - inconsistent with your earlier "get em back to work" views.
If you want the earliest, longest return to something close to normality this is one of the ways it can happen. Another is to deep isolate those most vulnerable (and therefore who on average will take more of finite health resources if they get COVID).
For the best outcome overall we probably need both.
It ends when we have very good treatment, or a vaccine, or so many people have the right antibodies there is no longer (for this season) a problem.
Morally these decisions are difficult. I admire you for taking this head on and asking the difficult questions weighing lives against economic prosperity. There are similar difficult questions weighing lives and/or economic prosperity against personal freedom.
It has always been thus: and we all do the best we can informed by our humanity. Inevitably we will all have slightly different views: it is the duty of everyone to admit that these ethical problems exist, and give credit to those who struggle with them, and have compassion for those in the end responsible for country's lives. (And, yes, in spite of my politics that means BJ and Trump too!).
"Snopes" is known for dispelling myths, or falsehoods. Just so everyone knows, while Snopes is mentioned in the headline, they did not write the article, nor endorse it, and instead provided this disclaimer:
"This content is shared here because the topic may interest Snopes readers; it does not, however, represent the work of Snopes fact-checkers or editors."
I mention this not to detract from the author's belief that HCQ may be ineffective, but so that no one gives added weight to his conclusions, because of any perceived association with Snopes.
HCQ requires zinc to be effective. Where is zinc in this study?
Seems pretty fair. One thing it does not note is that HCQ (and many other treatments) do not have uniform effectiveness when taken at different times. If you factor in the hypothesis that HCQ is most effective given in the early stages of the infection: after symptoms, but before severe symptoms, it fits this preliminary data much better.
HCQ requires zinc to be effective. Where is zinc in this study?
Zinc deficiency is not that common.
https://www.health.com/nutrition/zinc-deficiency
I have to say that I, in these locked in times, am adding zinc supplements to my diet, as well as obligatory far Northern winter vitamin D, since it has very little meat and grains. But that would not normally be the case.
HCQ and magic bullets.
Some people, perhaps following the US presidency, are taking a black and white view of HCQ: either it is a magic bullet, or it is worthless. The truth is often somewhere in between.
LeBob - sorry for being cryptic - the high relative incidence of COVID-19 infections in S Africa compared to the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa is yet another example of high malaria regions (just next door) having very few COVID infections. They can no longer reach for the chloroquine on acquiring a fever in S Africa because here malaria was eradicated. Unlike the rest of the sub-continent where this is usually normal practice for any old fever, malarial, dengue fever, yellow fever or now SARS-Cov-2. We already have a massive worldwide clinical trial! Gosh it works! Eureka!
Use the Hammer.
Detroit bus driver dies of CV.
https://www.thestar.com/news/w…ger-dies-of-covid-19.html
President trump should call our
Canadian President Doug Ford.
Or our Vice President Jason Kenny.
Similarly check the worldometer in non - malarial regions in N Africa cases in Morocco, Algeria, Egypt etc are all near 1000, whilst in malarial infested regions Like DRC Nigeria, Kenya, Malawi, Ivory Coast, Congo, Uganda, Ethiopia are only 10 -200 cases with very few deaths. One might argue that they are not testing but that would apply to both Morrocco & Nigeria, No?. So if I'm right why does a high malaria regions !like Brazil have 10,000 cases? Apart from the idiot president Bolsonaro there not believing that corona virus exists (praying it will go away), so zero isolation /hand washing strategies, malaria is only prevalent in rural regions but has been eradicated in the cities! Where most of the population is and no longer has Chloroquine available from pharmacies (just like here!). Can't understand why Ferguson or other epidemiologists haven't spotted these correlations. India is acquiring more cases in the 1000 level but surprise surprise the malarial region of Bangladesh is low again. Then just compare East and West Java with and without malaria/mefloquine/chloroquine self-medication? Such striking correlations surely cannot continue to be ignored?
Worldmeters Japan data is apparently wrong. I informed them. Here is the link to the site they are referencing. This site has completely different numbers:
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/special/coronavirus/
Maybe they are using auto-translate and getting it wrong?
Japan is experiencing explosive growth in the daily cases. They may be on the verge of uncontrolled exponential growth. Restaurants, bars and live music joints are still open. They are still holding "weekend only, voluntary social distancing." They are playing with fire. They need to lock down Tokyo immediately, with fines for people who go out. The governor of Tokyo says she does not have the authority to do that, and it is up to the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister says it is not time yet. He is a craven fool who may kill hundreds of thousands of people. Opposition parties are demanding a stay-at-home policy.
Maryland, Virginia and other states have implemented stay-at-home orders with teeth. Maryland has a $5,000 fine, similar to Italy. Meanwhile, in Georgia, the governor's orders override local bans, and actually opened things up at the beaches, encouraging more people to come. The mayors and city councils at the beaches closed them down completely a few weeks ago. Now they are opening up, and the mayor is livid.
All because they are genetically inferior to those blessed with a resistance to the virus. It is just a matter of time before they say: "enough, is enough", and take to the streets.
Not a problem. If they are genetically incapable of fighting off the disease, they are dead already, or they soon will be after taking to the streets.
I don't know what you are talking about. I do not think this is possible. I have never heard of anyone who genetically inferior to resistance. People undergoing cancer therapy are, but if they don't stay isolated they will soon be dead. The only way anyone recovers from infectious disease is by developing antibodies. If you don't develop them, you die from any small infection, like a patient with AIDS.
If you mean there are different antibodies depending on your genetic makeup, surely the tests will cover that, and people with every type of response will be cleared. If you are right and some people are "genetically incapable" of producing antibodies, it is likely they will get seriously ill. ~20% of ordinary patients need to be hospitalized. If you are genetically incapable of fighting off this disease it is more like a 100% chance you will need to be hospitalized. Italian hospitals are still crammed with people, and unable to provide decent care. So, if you are genetically incapable of producing antibodies, then going out in public in Italy is about as dangerous as playing Russian roulette.
Pump out the HCQ Trump! I e-mailed this correlation to Cuomo and tweeted Trump direct so hopefully they know what the f*** to do now! As more data comes in the correlation is becoming more significant.
Worldmeters Japan data is apparently wrong.
No difference: They just do update Japan only once at GMZ 00:00
Japan is experiencing explosive growth in the daily cases. They may be on the verge of uncontrolled exponential growth. Restaurants, bars and live music joints are still open. They are still holding "weekend only, voluntary social distancing." They are playing with fire. They need to lock down Tokyo immediately, with fines for people who go out. The governor of Tokyo says she does not have the authority to do that, and it is up to the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister says it is not time yet. He is a craven fool who may kill hundreds of thousands of people. Opposition parties are demanding a stay-at-home policy.
Some of my political friends in Japan are growing concerned that they are still being pressured to attent political rallies and festivals despite the risks they are aware of. Puzzle really.
Advise them to stay at home - we are dealing with the consequences of not isolating more than two weeks ago. Or keep that HCQ/AZM/ZnFav anti bat virus nearby.
