Covid-19 News

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    Chloroquine also seems to act as a zinc ionophore, that allows extracellular zinc to enter the cell and inhibit viral RNA-dependent RNA polymerase


    Fredericksen BL, Wei BL, Yao J, Luo T, Garcia JV (November 2002). "Inhibition of endosomal/lysosomal degradation increases the infectivity of human immunodeficiency virus". Journal of Virology. 76 (22): 11440–6. doi:10.1128/JVI.76.22.11440-11446.2002. PMC 136743. PMID 12388705.

    Xue J, Moyer A, Peng B, Wu J, Hannafon BN, Ding WQ (1 October 2014). "Chloroquine is a zinc ionophore". PloS One. 9 (10): e109180. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0109180. PMC 4182877. PMID 25271834.


    iffy A New York doctor says he has successfully treated coronavirus patients' symptoms using hydroxychloroquine sulfate, zinc, and azithromycin.

    https://english.alarabiya.net/…-as-coronavirus-treatment


    https://plos.figshare.com/arti…inc_ion_uptake_/1189899/1


    Medcram has a detailed explanation of how Chloroquine works with Zinc to stop the virus. The Chloroquine is used as an ion transport to get Zinc into the cell to stop the replication of the virus.


    Quinine derivatives are also Zinc ionophores, they increase the concentration of intracellular zinc. The viral replicase enzyme of n-COV-19 is gummed up by Zinc slowing replication.

    ……………………………………..

    I know, I know not enough testing for you but most think that the mechanism of quinine like meds work by transporting Zn into cells and interfering with RNA replication. A large percentage of people have good levels of Zn but not sure if enough to be used for this transport in to most of your cells. IMHO taking a little extra Zn may help and I doubt it would be detrimental to most people.


    I would encourage you to investigate it from a MD viewpoint and tell us what you think.

    Quote from Shane D.

    If this keeps up, they will have to discontinue the trials using a placebo group, and start treating everyone with the HCQ. At some point it is unfair to the control group, and switches from a study of the best treatment, to denying a patient the best standard of care.

    That's a very difficult decision to make especially evaluating treatment for a disease that most patients (the overwhelming majority) with it survive. The early preliminary French study "solved" this issue by using self-selected patients who could not take or did not want the drugs as controls. But that means randomization and matching for age and severity isn't possible or at least is very difficult. The disease progresses too fast and too irreversibly (IMO) to use "cross over" studies where the control and experimental groups are switched half way through.


    The New York studies (some of them) will probably be blind (or even double blind) placebo-controlled, randomized and case matched if the investigators have their way. And they should involve over 1000 patients (God knows, New York has no shortage of infected test subjects). So the answer to the efficacy and to some degree of the safety of HCQ+Azi treatment should soon (a month or two) be known. I sure hope so!

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    Aw, man. I can't believe the misinformation propagated by Wyttenbach. Essentially everything this person posts is wrong *and* unsubstantiated/unlinked/unreferenced. I'm tired of debating it so "caveat emptor!"


    If you cannot live with the facts than look for a therapy!


    If I would be at risk I myself would lock out and not believe that an untested prevention works. But you seem to believe it works if you can cope with that bit of logic.

    This is an example of what a COVID-19 vs HCQ+Azi study could look like - the methodology, hopefully not the conclusion. This one showed that in 1516 patients and a double blind controlled protocol, HCQ alone did not prevent influenza. This was despite the activity of the drug against influenza virus "in vitro" (in tissue culture). That's why first rate clinical studies are required.


    http://mail.kooprime.com/dl/CHIPLancet.pdf (PDF file, free)

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    There is absolute no reason to stop the working people if you have protective masks and use minimal safety.


    Oh Yes There Is A Reason. It is to slow down the rate of infection. To bend the curve down. Otherwise, we will overwhelm the hospitals. And you are wrong thinking that only elderly people die. At any age, 20% of patients need medical care. That includes people in their 20 to 40. Their mortality rate is only 0.2%, twice as bad as seasonal flu, but that is because they get good medical care in the hospital. When I was in my 30s, I got pneumonia and was hospitalized. If I had not been, I might well have died. Before the 20th century, young and old people often died from pneumonia. The point is, when hospitals are overwhelmed, people of all ages will not get treatment, so even at age 20 to 40 the mortality rate will be far higher than 0.2%. It will be like being sent back to the year 1800. No one knows how many will die, but it is reasonable to guess hundreds of thousands of young people will die, along with millions of older people, where "older" is over 40. In the best of circumstances, with medical care, 4% of them will die anyway.


    https://www.worldometers.info/…rus-age-sex-demographics/

    This is a fascinating reanalysis of the famous (infamous?) Gautret et al HCQ data.


    It shows, precisely, why that study does not lead to clear conclusions using a number of different Bayesian analyses. The clever thing is that the different analyses show how the elements in the trial which were unsatisfactory and not properly documented can sway conclusions one way or another according to what assumptions are made about them.


    https://www.bayesianspectacles…ly-to-gautret-et-al-2020/


    Strongly recommended for anyone wanting to understand the real scientific evidence emerging from that one paper.


    Personally, I don't rate the Gautret et al results highly, but do rate the later 31+31 RCT data, so I am now guardedly positive about HCQ.

    Well, JedRothwell , what you wrote + it's also wrong that masks and "minimal safety" (whatever the f*ck that is) are sufficient to protect against infection. The infection is air and droplet borne and viruses can get through even N95 masks (at reduced quantities). And then there is skin and especially surface contamination with inadvertent transfer to face, eyes, nose or mouth. That is the most basic infectious diseases information. I've given up correcting Wyttenbach who is essentially dead wrong virtually all the time. It's a thankless effort. I am surprised you still have the patience.

    ??

    Blood Vessel Dilation Research From Viagra Tested in Fight Against COVID-19

    https://www.newsmax.com/us/nit…est/2020/04/05/id/961462/


    Nitric oxide is emerging as a potential treatment for COVID-19, and doctors around the world are testing it again after it had shown to kill another coronavirus, SARS...….

    Currently, the Chinese are conducting a pilot study to see if Viagra can help patients with COVID-19-induced breathing programs avoid having to use ventilators.……

    Berra seeks to lead 240 subjects in a clinical trial in Boston, as other hospitals in Alabama, Louisiana, Sweden, Austria, and China are doing the same, treating mild to moderate cases of COVID-19 in an effort to ultimately avoid breathing assistance with a ventilator…..

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    Well, JedRothwell , what you wrote + it's also wrong that masks and "minimal safety" (whatever the f*ck that is) are sufficient to protect against infection.


    But, even cloth masks or bandanas are way better than nothing. That's what they say in Asia. In Japan the government is handing out washable cloth masks to every citizen. I think I read that in Hong Kong and China you are not allowed to be out in public without one. I do not understand why the U.S. did not recommend them until Friday. I guess because there was a shortage. There still is a shortage, so use a bandana or sew one yourself.


    As I mentioned, my wife is sewing complicated, cone-shaped cloth masks Atlanta hospitals. It takes some skill with a sewing machine to do this. It took her 2 or 3 days to make 50 of them. The masks include an inner filter between layers of cotton. I suppose they are more effective than a bandana. These are shaped to be used on top of N95 masks, to help re-use them. Both the cloth and the N95 masks are sterilized. See:


    https://www.sewingmasksforatlantahospitals.com/


    QUOTE:


    What is the purpose of masks?

    There’s many reasons these masks are desperately needed. They cover the N95 masks, extending their usefulness. Used alone, they still filter out more air droplets than nothing! Other germs didn’t stop hanging around once this started, lots of professionals are still required to wear masks (kitchens, factories, janitorial) and the more masks we have, the more people can do their best to stay healthy. Our Atlanta healthcare facilities have requested THOUSANDS!! of handmade masks and the requests keep coming. We are feeling a need in this time of crisis.


    Sounds as though the side effects might be difficult to manage in a hospital setting...

    The WW2 Queen Elizabeth looks good.


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    But the present day Winston Churchill not so well.


    https://www.theguardian.com/po…hospital-with-coronavirus

    Quote from seven_of_twenty

    Well, JedRothwell, what you wrote + it's also wrong that masks and "minimal safety" (whatever the f*ck that is) are sufficient to protect against infection. The infection is air and droplet borne and viruses can get through even N95 masks (at reduced quantities). And then there is skin and especially surface contamination with inadvertent transfer to face, eyes, nose or mouth. That is the most basic infectious diseases information. I've given up correcting Wyttenbachwho is essentially dead wrong virtually all the time. It's a thankless effort. I am surprised you still have the patience.


    seven_of_twenty Your anger is always stoping your brain from thinking clear minded:


    Nobody can do any work outside a hospital/lab with a level III full body protection suit. The primary infection path is respiration of droplets. This is the high initial dose infection that most likely guarantees a severe reaction. Of course droplets into eyes could work too, but droplets do sink and are only short time at eye height. Second you must keep the distance while working.


    Even you should understand that a mask (N95 at least) prevents droplets to become airborne. The 1% that pass are low dose.


    Hospitals get only overwhelmed by ICU cases like it happened in Wuhan, Italy, Spain or shortly in NewYork, if Trump is to slow again. You can easily deal with about the 10x fold number of younger infected than with the tiny number of older people with complex medication. Most of the younger can be sent home with an initial package of medication.


    Please stop your frustrated comments and continue to contribute valuable information!

    Quote from JedRothwell

    Oh Yes There Is A Reason. It is to slow down the rate of infection.


    Key is to not overload the health system. The rate is far to high for older people with preconditions only. They must stay home - isolated. If they will not understand then they have to sign a patient provision where they exactly declare how they want to die!


    Switzerland has almost the highest infection rate but only 400 ICU cases with 5 x spare still available. But we also have the same problem SOT thinks all workers do have. In a hospital its risky to work without at least full eye protection. More than 10% of the health personal is infected! But due the stop of all other surgeries that can be shifted, there are replacement people available. In fact some of them - due to canceled surgeries - do not even have enough work!!

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