It’s interesting how the experiences of 2 different events, 9/11 and this one, have felt so different from a top down control situation and who controls personal freedoms. In 9/11 it was the Patriot Act and the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and a huge buildup of the military. It felt like everything was happening at the Federal level.

With this situation it has all been about the Governor of my State. I never gave much thought to what my Governor did on a day-to-day basis. But in something like this the Governor of a State becomes a very powerful figure and can basically do whatever they want. And they can use the National Guard, which is the military, to enforce it. Fortunately the Governor of my State has acted quite well in all of this, and we have not had an outbreak at the level that some others are experiencing.

Quote from Navid

Who pays you for these opinions stated as facts?

Here we go again. Anyone who disagrees with you has to be paid. Sort of like those who exposed high tech scams like Rossi's have to be paid. That's a moronic and paranoid view. I sure wish someone would pay me to write posts on an internet forum! Anyone? Maybe I will go talk to the Illuminati or perhaps George Soros to see if they will pay.

Quote from JedRothwell

They never turned off the economy in Korea. We only had to do it in the U.S., Italy and the UK because our leaders are idiots.

Some certainly are including the very top. And they aren't learning very much or very fast. And I bet Navid likes the current leadership of the US. Or Rand Paul maybe. Just a hunch.

Live democracy in action.. Brazil President Jair Bolsonaro

Anyone speak Portuguese.

https://www.theguardian.com/wo…rus-calamity-experts-fear

Aw sh*t. I really hate whackoes. They waste so much energy and potentially do so much harm. Oops... is "whackoe" a buzz word. I say "If the shoe fits..." or is it "If the foo sh*ts?"

"Vaccination Could Go Horribly Wrong"

https://www.thedailybeast.com/…t-could-go-horribly-wrong

Quote from Navid

It has not been established this is a pandemic

pandemic - sustained community transmission spread in multiple countries in different regions of the world.

It is a pandemic.

but the cows are not locked down...in NZ at least .. dairy promo

I haven't been on LENR Forum for quite a while and just decided to take a look because I expected the debate on COVID-19 to be interesting here, given the mix of erudite men of science, nutty conspirationists, and laymen with intellectual curiosity. Indeed I was quite right.

As an Italian let me tell you guys in the US that I cannot thank more the national lockdown measures taken on March 4 (schools closed, travel ban) and March 11 (total lockdown). On March 4 we had 100 deaths cumulated. On March 11 we had 870 deaths cumulated. It was late for Milan and the North, and the toll is now 20,000 the vast majority in northern Italy, but it spared some 100,000 lives in the country so far and in Rome where I live.

The idea that a government can just let the pandemic go until herd immunity is reached is an idiocy. It is true that most casualties will be among the old and the poor, but even a Nazi mentality that may welcome the death of this 1 to 2% population as a positive effect on economy (less pensions and subsidies to pay) must face the unbearable impact of this death toll to occur in a matter of 2 months (as opposed to natural mortality little above 1% evenly spread over one year), with peaks of daily mortality 30 to 40 times the natural rate. Economy would be struck by this, mortality would further increase due to the healthcare collapsing, and spontaneous social distancing would occur in violent forms. Until a vaccine is available, or a massive lowcost testing kit is available for use on 100% of the population, there is no alternative to lockdown by law followed by a controlled release while enforcing continued social distancing and safety measures at work (working in shifts + teleworking to reduce the population density in industries) in order to keep the rate of contagion manageable by the health system. We have paid a dreadful price in Italy for being the first western democracy to face this crisis, which caused some hesitation to take action. And it is unforgivable for countries who had two to three weeks advantage not to have put in place actions timely. At the end of this story which may cause 60,000 to 100,000 deaths in the US, Americans should know that 80% of these are victims of mr Trump's inadequacy to rule the most powerful country in the world, and should thank Dr Fauci and the liberal press, who gave voice to the experts dismissed by the White House, for sparing a million lives.

China politburo will filter research publications for impurities..

and control the Covid narrative.. even more.

https://www.fox10tv.com/news/u…4e-8028-af582fcd86ad.html

"After the paper is reviewed and approved by the academic committee of the college,

fill in the traceability paper submission form (Annex 1 ), scan it into a PDF after the seal of the college, and send it to our contact email.

Beijing tightens grip over coronavirus research, amid US-China row on virus origin

Quote from oldguy

pandemic - sustained community transmission spread in multiple countries in different regions of the world.

It is a pandemic.

Fighting over dictionary definitions isn't going to help. Some people - on this board- are saying this is 30x more serious than a typical flu season. Whether it is 2x, 10x, or 30x matters - if you want to make decisions based on science. We don't have the data to decide - nobody has the data and the data is being fudged (at least in the US). Caution is warranted, absolutely.

From WebMD:

"Pandemic flu" has been one of the buzzwords of late 2005. But how does the phrase that's on everyone's lips differ from "epidemic," that other well-worn disease term?

Apparently, a lot of people aren't sure. Merriam-Webster reports that "pandemic" is the seventh most frequently looked-up word in its online dictionary this year. The definition: "occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population."

This is almost the same as the dictionary definition for "epidemic," and it doesn't explain much when it comes to influenza -- a.k.a. the flu.

An epidemic of influenza is different from the dreaded pandemic that scientists and world health officials fear is nigh. We might see an epidemic of seasonal influenza during any given year. In fact, we just had one.

Flu reached epidemic levels in the U.S. for 10 weeks in a row during the 2004-2005 season. Records kept by the CDC show that during the week ending March 5, 2005, 8.9% of all deaths reported in 122 U.S. cities were due to influenza and pneumonia (a common complication of the flu).

The Sars 2003 epidemic was not pandemic .. it reached only 26 countries..

https://www.who.int/ith/diseases/sars/en/

Maybe the pan in pandemic is not 100% now.. 99.5%?

The Covid-19 has not reached Antarctica yet..the researchers there are making a huge effort to keep it out

https://en.as.com/en/2020/04/1…ts/1586607691_521116.html

Quote from Navid

Fighting over dictionary definitions isn't going to help. Some people - on this board- are saying this is 30x more serious than a typical flu season. Whether it is 2x, 10x, or 30x matters

In the U.S. a typical flu season kills 20,000 people per year (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html). If we continue the lockdown until the end of May, this epidemic is expected to kill 60,000 people over 6 weeks, according to the model the White House cites (https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america). If we let people out on May 1, it will probably kill 200,000, according to homeland security. So that's 10 times worse, in about 1/8th of the time. If we do nothing, it will kill millions, which is 100 times worse. Take you pick. It will be worse, much worse, or it will be as many people as typical flu seasons kill in 100 years. It depends on what we choose to do. It is up the people and the leaders.

Quote from Wyttenbach

The current accepted death rate is 0.6..0.7% what is in agreement with some 200000 cases in Switzerland North and Germany. This is for a place where medicine works.

The death rate for the" youngest" age group 18..65 is very small compared to the 75+ group . We here are talking of factors as large as 1000 not 10. But we so far have only the "first flush" information e.g. of Italy that analyzed all 3500 first deaths that did show - all had preconditions. But this only tells people with preconditions die early!

But why do some people not even get an infection albeit they live with somebody that had it? This is crucial for the overall mortality and only that one counts. If e.g. classic corona that looks like a cold or weak flu gives you some protection for covid-19 then most younger that recently had it will not even show covid-19 antibodies despite a contact!

US CDC started classic corona tracing just one year(2018) ahead of covid-19 because some flue deaths in fact were classic corona deaths.

What if 70-80% of the population is already partially immune?? This would be an important test, finding people with recent corona brand antibodies and monitor how many of them will get covid-19 .

Display More

Yes,

agree, but we don’t know that yet,

hopefully soon

The Worldmeters total reset at 0 GMT, which is now. Subject to revision, the U.S. new case totals are down from yesterday: ~27,000 down from 30,000. Deaths are also down, 1,500 from 1,000. France is way down. The UK is almost the same as yesterday, which is good news in the circumstances. (Sort of like the Russians in WWII reporting "the army did not retreat today.")

The Worldmeter totals for Japan still seem to be off. I think these totals are closer: https://covid19japan.com/ The totals shown here for April 11 are "481 provisional." NHK morning news just now said the total for April 11 is 500 even. That is down a little, thank goodness. The generic expert commentator said this is the effect of beefed-up voluntary social distancing that started two weeks ago. It still looks like a runway reaction to me. But I should note that a few hundred of the recent cases all come from hospitals and other facilities, where all cases are accounted for, rather than from unknown or "hidden" cases. That's good. Governors and mayors of large cities have lost patience with the central government and with PM Abe. They are imposing their own restrictions. They are finally closing bars and restaurants.

Abe himself is seen on twitter, sitting at home, looking dispirited, petting a dog and urging people to stay home, accompanied by a popular singer. I kid you not:

https://twitter.com/AbeShinzo?…erm%5E1249127951154712576

Or, as seen here, he is accompanied by a zombie uprising:

The attempt by Navid (and the US right wing) to question mortality rates as overrated is readily dismissed by official statistics of total mortality in Italy. In week 13 when the peak of daily COVID-19 deaths was reached (some 800 deaths reported daily, officially diagnosed by test as COVID-19 related) the total mortality from all causes was 80% above the expected rate based on the past 10 years. This is data freshly released this week from the National Health Institute (it takes a while and is still a projection based on a 10% sample population) . Now Italy has a typical daily mortality of 2000. It means that the excess mortality that week was close to 1600 I.e. the COVID-19 deaths may be twice higher than the ones diagnosed.

https://www.epicentro.iss.it/influenza/flunews#mortalita

Quote from Wyttenbach

What if 70-80% of the population is already partially immune??

There is no way it can be 70%! There would be at least 55 million dead people if that were the case. The mortality rate is somewhere between 1% and 3%, depending on circumstances. That lowest estimate cannot be off by a factor of ten. It has been confirmed in places like Korea, which have excellent medical care and nationwide testing to confirm the overall infection rate. It is not 0.1%. And even if it were, that would be 5 million dead. Someone would notice. Infectious disease kills 17 million people per year, or 1.4 million per month (https://www.who.int/whr/1996/media_centre/press_release/en/). The WHO and others would notice if this had suddenly increased by 5 million in the last month.

A new preprint that identifies several natural substances that appear to be significantly anti-Covid-19 at fairly low in vitro molar levels - hopefully at levels that are attainable physiologically --

"Scutellaria baicalensis extract and baicalein inhibit replication of SARS-CoV-2 and its 3C-like protease in vitro"

( Tested - Baicalein, Scutellarein, Myricetin , Dihydromyricetin , Quercetagetin)

https://www.biorxiv.org/conten…0.04.10.035824v1.full.pdf

Hopefully effective in vivo, but if so, too inexpensive to get media or pharma support.

Also perhaps of interest is Dr. V. Zelenko's appeal to Donald Trump -

"How to Cure Coronavirus: an Exclusive Letter From Dr. Zelenko to Donald Trump"

https://internetprotocol.co/hy…e-letter-to-donald-trump/

Quote from Lou Pagnucco

Also perhaps of interest is Dr. V. Zelenko's appeal to Donald Trump -

"How to Cure Coronavirus: an Exclusive Letter From Dr. Zelenko to Donald Trump "

I wouldn't trust a Doctor appealing to Donald Trump instead of submitting his research to peer reviewing for publication