Covid-19 News

  • Can the U.S. reopen the economy with a fairly constant number of 10,000 new cases per day?


    Absolutely not. No sane person would return to ordinary life when 300,000 people a month are become seriously ill, 60,000 are hospitalized, and 6,000 are dying. That's 72,000 deaths a year, like a good-sized war. The hospitals would be continuously full, with hallways and atriums and emergency facilities in other parts of the city filled. Ordinary elective surgery would be impossible. People with other conditions such as heart problems would die.


    A general requirement that people wear masks outside their homes. This wouldn’t just be for the grocery store, but people would have to wear them at their places of business, and kids would wear them in school etc. I am not sure Western society is ready for something like this.


    That was the law in 1918. Everyone followed it. Americans sometimes claim they are less obedient than our grandparents, but when your life is at stake, even a modern person tends to follow the rules. When hurricanes approach the Outer Bank islands and people refuse to evacuate, the police officer will say, "in that case, do me a favor . . ." The cop hands the person a sharpie permanent marker and says, "write your Social Security number on your thigh so we can identify the body." That usually gets people to cooperate.


    The Governor of each State needs to create testing SWAT teams. So if someone tests positive in a particular place they can go in fast and test everyone and do contact tracing.


    Yes. In any sane country, the federal government would do this. It will take roughly 300,000 people to do this in the U.S. by Korean methods. That would cost a lot of money, but not even a few percent of what it is costing to keep the nation closed down. Obviously, we could have and should have done this weeks ago. It would have saved tens of thousands of lives. There is no indication the Federal government intends to do it now, and I doubt state governments can do it, despite the fact that Fauci said it is essential and there is no way to open the country without it.


    call me pessimistic but I don’t think the outbreak is going to fade down to a negligible number on its own. This could just be how life goes for the next couple of years.


    It could easily be reduced to negligible numbers, as it has been in Korea. There is no reason why this should not be done. The methods are not rocket science. They are common sense public health measures updated to use the internet and big data techniques. Any industrial country could implement them, but so far, only China, Korea and Japan have done it. I suppose the only reason other countries have not done this is because the leaders are ignorant fools.


    In my wildest imagination of how things might turn out, it never occured to me that we would have a 100% proven, workable solution to this pandemic, that would cost ~1% of the economic damage the pandemic is causing, and yet no one in government would lift a finger to implement this solution. Perhaps I am wrong, and there is a plan to do this. But there has been no mention of it in the mass media. Trump has repeatedly said this is up to the states. He said, "they better have a plan to open up the economy." Since Fauci and others in the administration have said a plan must include testing and contact tracing, that means the governors must do it. Maybe that is what Cuomo and the other governors are working on?


    I think it is likely a vaccine will be deployed before "a couple of years" elapse. So it will not go on that long.

  • Y'all

    5 day protocol HCQ + A+Zn in 39 resthome residents Texas ... successful after 14 days

    Dr. Robin Armstrong..

    https://yallitics.podbean.com/…maceutical-of-the-moment/


    So, I just can't tell from this whether the "good results" would be expected anyway from a low mortality disease like COVID, or whether these are better than would otherwise be found. A lot depends on the comorbidities, sex, and ages of the 38 patients on this treatment out of the 56 COVID positives. I'd rate this as mildly positive anecdotal - just like Zelenko's stuff was positive until looked at more carefully. I hope we get exclution criteria, patient demographics, outcomes, more clearly written up.


    THH

  • Wyttenbach the herbal medicine you take has probably had all of the canavanine removed in processing into oils or root extracts.


    Of course nonsense. What big pharma does is high pressure steam, ether or what ever extraction to get all substances of interest. What you take if you eat a capsule of Sutherlandia is the plain untreated herb. Your guts cannot extract the substance theses folks will make you claim as you either would need to eat kilograms or drink 1 liter of Alcohol with your dose.


    The substance that is chemo active needs to be extracted. Of course you should not take any extracts just the plain vanilla herb! If you did follow the canabis story then you would know about such effects. You get different substance when you smoke, vaporize or extract the herb!!

  • So, I just can't tell from this whether the "good results" would be expected anyway from a low mortality disease like COVID


    Now you are picky! The mortality among age >65 and precondition is extremely high >10% if you get a full initial dose.


    Of course it is extremely low if you are <65 have no preconditions and get a low dose. Then its between 0.01..0.05%.


    This is way higher than influenza for the first group and much lower for the second group.


    That's the biggest failure of WHO: Why do theses corrupts folks not force all countries to deliver proper statistics?


    Like: Swiss State of Waadt statistics

  • Well the active ingredient found for Sutherlandia treatment of prostate cancer model was not canavanine. It was another compound sutherlandioside D if you read @robert bryant's post. :) L-canavanine is just toxic without beneficial effects, screwing up enzyme activity non selectivly by replacing all the L-arginine residues. But then again you would have to ingest a lot of it on a low L-arginine diet to notice a toxic effect so the 500 mg doses are safe enough on a normal diet. Vegans or malnutrition sufferers might have adverse effects.

  • Now you are picky! The mortality among age >65 and precondition is extremely high >10% if you get a full initial dose.


    yes of course. But i'm not picky. Where does that doctor say his 38 selected patients (from 56 with COVID) have preconditions, or even are over 65? You might think so, but for example they could be in nursing home with dementia but otherwise healthy etc. It is quite likely he would exclude any heart preconditions (to avoid issues with drugs). Maybe others?


    The point is we cannot make assumptions. When we do, as with Zelenko, it is a big mistake.


    This is not a typical case, this is a positive case (though he does not really state what is his criteria for good outcome). What is the causality here? Positive because HCQ works, or positive because other elements of the selection and demographics make it so?


    It is absolutely an example of why with this disease in particular detail is needed for anecdotal evidence to be worth anything.

  • Well the active ingredient found for Sutherlandia treatment of prostate cancer model was not canavanine.


    They already used powder what is way more potent for cancer treatment. The natural usage - untreated herb - is only anti viral what can cause problems too. Sutherlandia can e.g. reactivate herpes that did hide in your cells DNA as it gets kicked out by the herb.


    As said: My doctor did treat a large number of patients that were untreatable by standard medicine and Sutherlandia was one of the prime drugs she did prescribe. I only know very few herbs that really do work and all are used since more than 2000 years... Thats's quite a bit longer than our beloved pharma mafia now is regularly raping our society.

  • Worldmeters has a handy world overview page, with some new graphs:


    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/worldwide-graphs/


    This one in log mode makes things seem a little less dire. Unfortunately, I expect it is wrong, because third-world countries are probably reporting only a small fraction of cases:



    This one shows that every first-world nation now has the pandemic under control, except the U.S. Plus, I have doubts about the data from Iran:



    There are some problems with some U.S. state reporting. The Atlanta Journal this morning said "Faulty data clouds severity of outbreak" in Georgia. Quote:


    "Georgia's public health agency counts just one confirmed diagnosis of the novel coronavirus -- and only one death -- at an Augusta nursing home. Windermere Health and Rehabilitation Center, however, acknowledges a much grimmer toll. The facility says 74 residents and 20 staff members have tested positive for the virus -- and four residents have died. . . . The state says the coronavirus has killed no residents of Arbor Terrace at Cascade, an assisted living center in Atlanta. In fact, the Fulton Board of Health said, deaths at the facility rose Tuesday to 15 . . ."


    This is part of an ongoing scandal with the state health agency and the governor. They have been frantically covering up deaths in nursing homes and other facilities. Details leaked, and they finally added 200 to the death toll, but they refused to say which facilities are affected. People with relatives in nursing homes are not allowed to visit them, and they do not know how many residents in these nursing homes are sick or dead. The management and the state government refuse to say. Atlanta hospitals also refuse to release any numbers on how many patients they are treating, or how many fatalities they have counted. The state health dept. lists only cases and deaths by county. People are demanding counts by zip code and other increased detail.


    The Journal reports: "It's hard to say what the trends are,' health commissioner says." Yes, I would say so. I would say Georgia is not ready to implement a Korean style testing and case tracing and follow up system, since they cannot even count dead people!

  • The real scandal will surface when we all come to the realization that this whole pandemic could have been avoided by the WHO advocating Mass Fever Treatment as soon as the evidence for potent anti virus drugs became apparent (from Feb 2 onwards). They are still just sitting on their hands - I believe this is the only way out before vaccines become available.(even then it could mutate rendering vaccines ineffective)

    • Official Post

    No sane person would return to ordinary life when 300,000 people a month are become seriously ill, 60,000 are hospitalized, and 6,000 are dying. That's 72,000 deaths a year, like a good-sized war. The hospitals would be continuously full, with hallways and atriums and emergency facilities in other parts of the city filled. Ordinary elective surgery would be impossible. People with other conditions such as heart problems would die.


    Maybe if they would compare those numbers to the annual hospitalizations from influenza, which average between 140,000-810,000, deaths between 12-61,000, and infections 9-45 million, they would be less reluctant to resume a normal routine when allowed. It is just a matter of putting it into perspective.


    Something few get through national media right now. All they are seeing on Fox, CNN, Skynews is death, death, and a 24/7 body count ticker. Most think if they shake hands, they will be on a ventilator within a week, and pushing up daisy's soon after that. Morbid. That will change though. just a matter of time.


    And right now, we do not have overcrowded hospitals. Just the opposite; they are nearly empty. Many are laying off doctors, nurses, etc. because the shut down included non essential medical services. They are going on unemployment, just like the other 17 million and counting. Even with all that capacity now sitting idle, the system easily handled what the virus has thrown at it..so far.


    Only place strained, was Queens, NY, but they did what any hospital does when almost full does...they transferred patients to hospitals nearby. They did not even need the field tents, and hospital ship provided by the USNavy, and some Christian organizations. Yes, we can handle anything that comes our way, and no one will be dying in the hallway for lack of a bed.


    When the shut downs began, we were told it was to prevent too many from getting sick at once, and overwhelming the hospitals. "Flatten out the curve". Well, we are about there, and time to start the process of getting back to normal IMO.

  • Absolutely not. No sane person would return to ordinary life when 300,000 people a month are become seriously ill, 60,000 are hospitalized, and 6,000 are dying. That's 72,000 deaths a year, like a good-sized war. The hospitals would be continuously full, with hallways and atriums and emergency facilities in other parts of the city filled. Ordinary elective surgery would be impossible. People with other conditions such as heart problems would die.


    I think that is where my pessimism lies, at least for those of us in the U.S. We had 30k new cases today (of course those are the cases where someone presented symptoms that would lead to being tested). To get that number down to 10k, or even below 10k is going to be a major challenge that will take time. Even at 10k most people will not feel safe going out into society.


    If everyone is forced to wear masks with other social distancing rules then I think it’s possible to get people to feel somewhat safe. NY is trying that. But we will see how it goes. The last month was tough, but I think this next month is when people will start to get restless, irritated and uncomfortable, unless our Government wants to go towards some type of universal basic income until the numbers come down drastically. I think something along these lines will be discussed more seriously as an option in the coming weeks as well.

    • Official Post

    but I think this next month is when people will start to get restless, irritated and uncomfortable


    I believe it has already started. These are just two of the many examples:


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  • There is often the comparison with the seasonal flu. But how massive the impact of COVID19 is if you do nothing was this evening presented with a graph, that compares the seasonal flu of the last years with COVID19 in the State of New York. If no action is taken, hundreds of thousands are killed in New York alone!

    Do you have a link for where you saw that (amazing) graph?

  • Maybe if they would compare those numbers to the annual hospitalizations from influenza, which average between 140,000-810,000, deaths between 12-61,000, and infections 9-45 million, they would be less reluctant to resume a normal routine when allowed. It is just a matter of putting it into perspective.


    In the worst recent seasonal influenza epidemic with ~60,000 deaths in the U.S., the hospitals were, in fact, overwhelmed. Furthermore, a hospital case of coronavirus much more severe than seasonal influenza. It is more severe than an ordinary hospital case of pneumonia (which I have had, and it is no picnic). The symptoms are more severe, and the nurses have to spend more time watching and adjusting, or the patient will die. The treatment lasts much longer, and drags on for a month or more after the patient goes home. This disease takes far more medical resources than seasonal flu. The fatality rate is 10 to 20 times higher.


    People are not going to Disney World, a physics conference, vacation travel, or even Macdonalds when there is a good chance they will spend the next month with a high intermittent fever, waking nightmares and delusions (such as death standing in the doorway), sleeping nightmares, and coughing up blood. Those are symptoms reported by people in their 20s and 30s. That's not death, but it is not something you want to risk. This is a very severe disease for more patients than influenza is. It would make no difference if the president and the governors declare the economy and the country "opened up." People are not idiots. They will not risk that kind of illness.


    More to the point, if there were 10,000 new cases a day (as deleo imagined) nothing would prevent that from exploding into 20,000, 30,000 or 100,000 per day. You could not trace or follow 10,000 cases even with cell phone tracking and intense follow-up by 300,000 field workers. Big data approaches fail, because people getting the new cases would not know who gave it to them. That is the problem today in Tokyo. The previous method of follow up stopped working, after they began getting ~100 or more new cases a day. Previously, most cases came from family members or co-workers. Now, new patients might have got it from a passenger on a train, or someone in a grocery store. The nightly news shows "untraceable" cases in red on the bar graph, and in the last few weeks the red portion of the bar went up and up. Finally, they shut most of the city down, and things are beginning to improve.


    In S. Korea they did not begin to control the disease with confidence until the new cases per day fell to around 100. The U.S. population is 6.3 times bigger, so that's about 630 cases a day. We could probably track nearly every case at that rate of infection, and quarantine nearly everyone who came in contact with the patients. ~600 cases per day can be controlled. 10,000 is out of the question. The only way to deal with that is to shut down everywhere, or shut down the hotspot cities and then forbid any travel from them.

  • manaus brazill chloroquine trial..


    higher doses halted,, due to lethal toxicity


    Trials to continue


    "

    The limited sample size recruitedso far does not allow to show any benefit regarding treatment efficacy, however the trend
    towards higher fatality associated with the higher dose by day 6 of follow-up resulted in a
    premature halting of this arm.

    This is the first double-blinded, randomized clinical trial
    addressing different dosages of CQ for the treatment of severe patients with COVID-19 in the
    absence of a control group using placebo.

    Due to the impossibility of not using the drug
    recommended at the national level, we used historical data from the literature to infer
    comparisons for lethality endpoints.

    Follow-up until day 28 is ongoing with a larger sample
    size, in which long-term lethality will be better estimate
    d.


    https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…04.07.20056424v1.full.pdf

    • Official Post

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/0…s-pandemic/#disqus_thread


    -Scientists widely believe that coronavirus will not die off in the U.S. until between 50% and 70% of Americans have either become infected with the virus or been inoculated against it through a vaccine.

    -With a vaccine not expected for another 12-18 months, epidemiologists and some government officials see a particularly bleak path to the end of the pandemic, which has already claimed more than 27,000 lives in the U.S.

    -“Several rounds of social distancing will be required to get us to ‘herd immunity’ in the absence of vaccination,”


    Absent a vaccine, or silver bullet anti-viral, this looks to me the only reasonable way out. Staying sheltered in place until the virus mostly disappears, will wreck the economy, killing many millions more through poverty, mental health issues, drug overdose, suicide, crime, etc. while only delaying our inevitable battle with the virus. This way at least, keeps the economy crippling along, and gets us to the end faster. Looks to be the lesser of two evils.


    Personally though, I think it will not be as bloody as predicted. We have a great health care system that can handle any surge. Doctors, scientists improve SOC almost daily, and there is some realistic near term hope from a cadre of new drugs. While a long shot, there is also a chance for a quick vaccine. The University of Pittsburgh says they might have one out in another 2 months.

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