Quote from THHuxleynew

Trump was taking about injecting (or in some other way getting inside the body) disinfectant. In what alternate reality do his words not mean that?

You are the one bringing left/right politics into this. How about just consider what he says, without politics. I note the aberration.

Today he says what he said yesterday was meant sarcastically. Do you believe that?

THH

Display More

THH,

Along the same lines,

Do you really believe he was actually telling people to inject themselves with bleach.

What kind of blithering idiot would even consider doing that, even his zealots would never do that.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

It will be interesting to follow it, especially if enough people are dumb enough to do what the governor is allowing starting tomorrow. JedRothwell: better plan to duck. Big time.

I drove past a restaurant today that seemed crowded . . .

A leading medical expert described the governor's policy as "higgledy-piggledy." That's a polite way to put it.

The mayor of Atlanta is upset with the governor, and strongly opposed to these policies. She also thinks it is a bad idea to "inject Lysol," as she put it. She summarized the situation saying "it's like we're living in 'Twilight Zone.'"

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/…ng-georgia-newday-vpx.cnn

The president and the governor are not the only ignorant officials. America's mayor hizzhoner Rudy Giuliani was interviewed by Laura Ingraham, and said this:

Ingraham: Michael Bloomberg is gonna handle the tracing, army of tracers in NY we learned today from [New York Gov. Andrew] Cuomo.

Giuliani: That's totally ridiculous.

Ingraham: The army of tracers.

Giuliani: Then we should trace everybody for cancer.

Ingraham: Yeah, army of tracers.

Giuliani: We should trace everybody for cancer, and heart disease. And obesity. I mean, a lot of things kill you more than Covid-19. So, we should be traced for all those things. I mean life possesses a certain degree of risk.

Reporter's comment:

Ah ha ha ha ha ... wait, what????

Here's the thing, Mr. Mayor: Those diseases are not at all the same. Cancer, obesity and heart disease are not contagious. Coronavirus is. Which is why contact tracing is a strategy to combat coronavirus and not, say, obesity.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24…am-coronavirus/index.html

Quote from Roseland67

Along the same lines,

Do you really believe he was actually telling people to inject themselves with bleach.

He didn't say "bleach," he said "disinfectant." Like the kind that kills viruses on surfaces. Injecting anything like that is dangerous, probably fatal. Yes, he definitely meant it. He later claimed he was being sarcastic, but I am sure he was not. See for yourself:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/pol…k-lies-cooper-sot-vpx.cnn

Quote from Roseland67

What kind of blithering idiot would even consider doing that, even his zealots would never do that.

Trump is the kind of blithering idiot who would consider it. Lots of his zealots would do that.

Quote from JedRothwell

I drove past a restaurant today that seemed crowded . . .

A leading medical expert described the governor's policy as "higgledy-piggledy." That's a polite way to put it.

Well, you can believe what you want to Jed,

But no sane human being in the history of history would EVER inject disinfectant into their bodies.

Under no circumstances, except political ones, should that have been taken seriously.

An excellent video dissecting the politicization of Hydroxychloroquine by

examining the warnings and reported side effects pre-Covid and post-Covid --

(Quoting WHO recommendations pre-Covid (at 30:00 in the video) --

"Apart from halofantrine, the oral antimalarial drugs, PARTICULARLY chloroquine

and piperaquine, have been used extensively with very few reports of cardiotoxity.

... and there are many other examples of establishment media and bureaucrats doing

a 180 degree reversal and going into attack mode after HCQ was deemed promising.)

Is it reasonable to conjecture that political and economic motives hide behind

media's (and social media's) coverage of prospective Covid-19 therapies?

Coronavirus: Bad Science (Or Something Worse?) May Well Be Costing Lives

Quote from Roseland67

Well, you can believe what you want to Jed,

But no sane human being in the history of history would EVER inject disinfectant into their bodies.

Under no circumstances, except political ones, should that have been taken seriously.

People do it. Just google it as a remedy and you will see lots of recommendations on it. Here is a story of a guy who drank a disinfectant:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86094

And here is a story of a lot of people doing it in Iran:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/…-methanol-cure-for-virus/

Quote from Roseland67

Well, you can believe what you want to Jed,

But no sane human being in the history of history would EVER inject disinfectant into their bodies.

Under no circumstances, except political ones, should that have been taken seriously.

The levels of idiocy that can be obtained by the motivated is hard to estimate.

There was that guy who injected himself with his own semen 18 times to cure back pain...

I regret to report that new cases in the U.S. rose to record level of 38,764.

Quote from Roseland67

Well, you can believe what you want to Jed,

But no sane human being in the history of history would EVER inject disinfectant into their bodies.

Under no circumstances, except political ones, should that have been taken seriously.

First, people do things like that all the time.

Second, Trump was serious. He has no sense of humor, and he is incapable of sarcasm in the normal sense. Look at the video and judge for yourself. He is an easy person to read.

Finally, there are no "political circumstances" in which this assertion should be "taken seriously." It had no political advantage, or political purpose. It did not help Trump or hurt his opponents. It was nothing other than a stupid idea from a profoundly ignorant person.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Trump was taking about injecting (or in some other way getting inside the body) disinfectant. In what alternate reality do his words not mean that?

You are kind of pretending there is no distinction between musing about some things that could be researched vs. recommending that people go out and inject themselves with bleach. Do you really not see a distinction? We must be living in alternate realities if so.

Quote from THHuxleynew

You are the one bringing left/right politics into this. How about just consider what he says, without politics. I note the aberration.

Right.... You are clearly keeping politics out of your posts. In fact, you are probably a right winger or completely ideologically neutral.... right??

Quote from THHuxleynew

Today he says what he said yesterday was meant sarcastically. Do you believe that?

Maybe. I know that he and the press have a pathological relationship. One is not much better than the other in certain regards. They would never let him hear the end of it if he ever admits to making even the slightest mistake. Then again he often punches them back and intentionally stirs them up.

Quote from Jack Cole

There is a UV light treatment that makes tremendous sense. It is not a stretch to think about trying to disinfect the body through this and other means. From what I understand, COVID is basically a surface infection. If we can disinfect the surface of our hands, why not explore it in other ways.

Sorry but completely wrong about all of it. It's hard to know where to start. The phrase "Disinfecting the body" is ignorant and meaningless. The body depends on bacteria to function. You can't "disinfect" it. And you can't introduce highly toxic substances like bleach and disinfectants into veins, tissues or by mouth. Nor can you spray these very irritating and inflammation causing substances into bronchi or lungs.

Now as to UV light. A small dose of UV radiation can be beneficial to skin disease, for example, most especially psoriasis. But this comes at a cost. It causes the same problems therapeutically that it causes recreationally-- skin damage and wrinkling and eventually cancer, for example basal and squamous cell tumors and melanoma which can metastasize and kill. UV in usable strengths doesn't penetrate the human body and you can't use it all inside delicate tissues like the bronchi and lungs- it would burn and inflame them.

Finally, COVID-19 is absolutely not a "surface infection" (whatever that means). As far is known presently, it begins by the virus entering the nose, eyes or mouth. From there, it infects the nasopharynx. It is theorized that virus-containing saliva and mucus is leaked into the bronchi, most likely during sleep. From there, it goes to the lungs but in very sick patients, that is just the beginning. It can spread to the major organs, all of them, to blood, and even the skin. In the blood, it can cause hypercoagulation and clots. Those can result in strokes and heart attacks. It is a very vicious virus which in it's most extreme expression behaves in some ways more like ebola than a respiratory virus.

The president, as he is wont to do, spoke impulsively from a viewpoint of complete ignorance. It was a totally cringe-worthy moment, regardless of your political preferences. It is the responsibility of presidents and other well known leaders not to speculate wildly with respect to things they obviously know nothing about. People may act on what those people say in public and probably more than 100 million were listening in the US alone. That means some uneducated or overly trusting people may well get hurt when they try what was so loosely and ridiculously suggested. This is simply facts and science. It has nothing to do with "leftist" media or any other political or party consideration. Had Biden or any other politician said it, it would have been just as absurd and inappropriate. IIRC, several republican congressmen and senators are physicians and I bet they were cringing as much as I was.

"

Quote from Shane D.

The US FDA advisory issued today

The US FDA is essentially a bureaucratic, reactive organisation

which remembers only too well the Vioxx debacle..

where it trusted Merck way too much,..

resulting in deaths plus litigation

The Costa Rica experiment with early HCQ dosing to most patients

( excluding those with known adverse profiles)

seems to be working well .based on death statistics..

NZ + CR = similar disease time course, similar govt reaction,

similar population-- both youngish.. 5 million

but CR/NZ deaths =6/18..

Quote from Shane D.

The US FDA advisory issued today, cautioning "against" HCQ use, created quite the expected buzz on the 24/7 news industry. Surprisingly, I saw some US doctors come out and strongly defend the efficacy of the drug treatment. Surprising to me, as I considered it a lost cause after the latest reports signaling it's death knell. Apparently, many doctors across the world never got the message, and still consider it their primary SOC. Not without reason they claim.

I've tried to keep up with the current literature on Google Scholar and also through a recurrent Google search, actually several. It is wrong to advocate either for or against HCQ with or without AZI at this point in time. The only reasonable view is that there are some preliminary studies suggesting the drugs work in some situations and there are also studies suggesting they don't, again in specific situations. Bottom line: nobody knows. One thing everyone seems to agree on is that much more research of the right kind is needed and that takes time. It is far from a lost cause and it is also far from proven. Personally, I hope it works but I have no idea.

One other thing I know. It is not dangerous with the exception of people who already have cardiac arrhythmias or a rare condition called prolonged QTc syndrome (Google). But the drugs do lengthen the QT interval on the EKG which means that the very rare possibility of heart complications is always there. The solution is EKG monitoring which some of the more intelligent patients can do from home and have their doctor read out. Other patients should be in the hospital, In decades of use for lupus and RA, HCQ almost never causes any complications. There can some harmless side effects like upset stomach. After many years of use, HCQ can cause retinal damage and even blindness but absolutely never during a few days of treatment. AZI is also a very safe drug widely used for various infections. There may some concern for seizure patients but I did not find good documentation for it. High fever also causes seizures so it will be hard to sort out.

Quote

They said it has to be used at the early, or moderate stage, to be effective. When administered then, they say the positive effects are obvious within a day, if not hours. At the least, it seems to keep patients out of the hospital. They also pointed out how safe

the drug regiment was...contrary to what dominates the news. A Cardiologist took issue with the %'s of complications being reported, and estimated <1% of his patients have problems.

So still some hope. Very political situation, and maybe one of the first of it's kind involving a drug treatment, but in the end, the truth, not politics, will prevail.

I don't know why this is so difficult for people to "incorporate." With COVID-19, it is very hard at this point to know what works. For one thing, if people seem to get better from a treatment, they might have gotten better anyway. 80% or better do. The only way we will ever know at what stage to use this and if it works is to do large, prospective, double blind, controlled, matched, randomized studies. To meet those criteria is expensive and takes some time (months, not weeks). But unless they are done and well done, the proponents and opponents are simply pissing into the wind while whistling Dixie,

Quote from RobertBryant

The Costa Rica experiment with early HCQ dosing to most patients

( excluding those with known adverse profiles)

seems to be working well .based on death statistics..

How do you know? Any idea how many variables are involved in death statistics? Did they do a controlled study in which matched randomized patients get a placebo? I bet not. If not, they have no idea what the role of the drug(s) is. Anyway, what do death statistics mean when there is no accurate assessment of how many people are infected? (not reported but actually infected including asymptomatic cases).

Quote from Shane D.

The US FDA advisory issued today, cautioning "against" HCQ use, created quite the expected buzz

I may not have the latest but what I saw did not say that. What it said was that because EKG monitoring is needed to avoid lethal cardiac arrythmias, the drug should only be given to hospitalized patients or those enrolled in clinical trials. That is perhaps a very conservative view but the FDA has to be cautious. The safety and efficacy of the treatment are both far from well demonstrated much less proven. Far as I know the medical community doesn't buzz. They tend to think and study. The buzz is by extremist talking heads and talk show hosts on both sides and screw them all.

BTW, the thing to watch in coming weeks is what happens to US states that relax restrictions. It will only be interesting if enough people play along and stop being as cautious. They may or they might not.

Quote from seven_of_twenty

The president, as he is wont to do, spoke impulsively from a viewpoint of complete ignorance

Quote from seven_of_twenty

How do you know?

I wrote based on death statistics.. 6/18... Costa Rica versus NZ

which is all that is known for sure.. there are are plenty of other unknowns.. some of which will become known some of which will remain unknown

Asta manana que sera as they say in CR

ma te wa.. as they say in NZ

in the fullness of time..

BTW both small countries are a bit skimpy on ICU beds.. only 200..for 5 million

so the "Go early Go hard" move to keep infection rates down was almost obligatory..for both.

The absence of large numbers of CO VID - 19 cases and deaths in regions known to takei HCQ or it's analogues primaquine or mefloquine for fevers is very positive evidence epidemiologically that it works the World over. Just look a Greece the only EU state with recent widespread anti-maliarial use. Using similar widespread antivirals will put an end to this pandemic. Each antiviral drug found thus far block viral action by a range of different mechanisms so combining such treatments in Anti Bat makes sens, ivermectin to block cargo protein suppression of nuclear defence mechanisms, HCQ to block entry and raise pH and Zn intracellular thus blocking replication via RNA polymerase inhibition, Avigan more direct blocking of viral replication again hitting the polymerase, Nitrazoxanide inhibits viral development. I had to take my wife to hospital yesterday for a day long treatment and since this is probably the most likely place to contract Corona virus I hope to have all the necessary components ready for it in the next few days. Most of us on this forum are similarly vulnerable, over 65, we have diabetes 2 and a heart condition. One of our sons has already had a mild dose and recovered in London. I don't rate our survival chances without Anti Bat.

Quote from Roseland67

THH,

Along the same lines,

Do you really believe he was actually telling people to inject themselves with bleach.

What kind of blithering idiot would even consider doing that, even his zealots would never do that.

The world sometimes surprises you. As a blithering idiot example take Mark Grenon:

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/…cure-wrote-trump-11628259

and, I guess, most of his followers...

Quote from Shane D.

That narrows down our options in fighting COVID to; facilitate herd immunity, get skinny, never grow old (Peter Pan), or crossbreed with a bat.

You missed out the Swedish model: lock up the oldies!

Being one yourself, as am I, that is perhaps understandable.