I don't think talking past each other helps.
You are the one creating Raoult and fuming not me..
Creating diversions,.talking past .. because you cannot admit that the four points I raise
No control of dosing, severity or treatment
No randomisation
are fatal flaws..
perhaps you should confine yourself to electronic circuitry ..where life is simple
have you ever worked in an ICU ward or with respiratory patients?
do you know what pharmacotherapy entails?
Nor do I think that blanket highlighting deficiencies help
Its not blanket.. I highlighted four deficiencies which amounts to zero randomisation and zero control..
there are actually more... such as did the HCQ cause QT prolongation?
these two factors.. randomisation and control..are essential for any valid conclusion
these two factors.. randomisation and control..are essential for any valid conclusion
The perfect is the enemy of the good. It seems most of the medical community does not agree with you, publishing non-randomised studies, and non-controlled studies.
I have sympathy with your all or nothing approach, and fully agree that RCTs of high quality are needed before conclusions can be reached. Let us therefore just disregard completely all the fragmentary evidence that has accumulated about HCQ and await RCT results?
I'm good with that. A shame the rest of the world is jumping the gun...
I did a preliminary Scholar search and found this.
This now is more than one month old basic covid-19 knowledge. I'm really surprised that actively treating doctors did not know this!!!!!
You argue that your judgements are realistic because there are a lot of conspiracies. As they say, it is not paranoia if they are out to get you.
The VA paper should never have made it into the mass media where it is doing a lot of damage, I wouldn't be surprised if planned clinical trials of hydroxychloroquine or their funding is abandoned as a result.
So: to be clear, you think Raoult's un-peer-reviewed self-publication rates higher than this (with merits) or not? If higher, pray say what you consider its merits?
The various persons posting behind the THH acronym usually work for the establishment. It's no surprise that he (they) never mention(s) any failure of Remsdesivir product of a "friend" . But fraudulent work about HCQ has been reported by all free-masons and rotary owned US/UK/German/Swiss press.
It's is also obvious from the THH rhetoric that he strictly sticks to the FM/RY guidebook and thus his accusation of Robert citing/believing conspiracy theory. They only folks on earth that daily live/produce conspiracy theory are free-masons/ rotary / blue-blood folks fighting for their stakes without doing real work.
Ivermectin works 100x better that Remsdesivir!! When will all these "assssh.." switch their trials to live protecting medication ???
There is absolutely no need to lock in Children! <18
There is absolutely no need to lock in any person with no severe precondition of age < 65
Lock at Sweden how to do it!
Do not listen to the crazy WHO folks that will make you claim you can get a reinfections thus being immune is not a reason to go out and walk without restriction. This is how we treat slaves! There are always people for all illnesses that do not develop enough anti bodies.
The idea of tracking containing people is born in the power hungry / money greedy brains. 10'000'000'000'000$ world wide covid-19 damage help money will be "spended" mostly to friends of friends to safe their stakes not to help you or suffering people. This is more money that has been given to the same people the last 10 years by their friends in the national banks.
At the end we were not attacked by corona: The establishment will suck you out and what will survive in the US - the front runner in this process - are only a few % of wealthy individuals.
I saw the clip and replayed it 3 times. He was not, as he alleged, addressing reporters. He was looking directly at the medical people seated at the side of the room especially Dr. Birx. And it can be clearly seen and heard that he was not being sarcastic. When he said he had been being sarcastic, he was blatantly lying. I am sure the clip is on Youtube if anyone wants to see it and decide for themselves.
SoT,
Doesn’t really matter how you interpret it.
Boils down to this.
Does you really believe that the POTUS would suggest that anyone inject or invest disinfectant to kill this virus.
Yes or no?
I do not, that’s just beyond ignorant.
The media in this country is so anti Trump
That they pick up on anything he says and turn it into a reason to bash the president.
Im not saying he doesn’t deserve a good bashing now and then. I think he’s a loudmouth, overbearing, arrogant, pompous, insecure, narcissist. But it’s nonstop, everyday. It’s way past tired and intelligent people can see right thru it.
Right now, this hatred that CNN has borders on racist bigoted zealot.
Suggestions for people trying to produce home made protective face masks.
The best material for homemade face masks may be a combination of two fabrics
Display MoreThis know is more than one month old basic covid-19 knowledge. I'm really surprised that actively treating doctors did not know this!!!!!
The various persons posting behind the THH acronym usually work for the establishment. It's no surprise that he (they) never mention(s) any failure of Remsdesivir product of a "friend" . But fraudulent work about HCQ has been reported by all free-masons and rotary owned US/UK/German/Swiss press.
It's is also obvious from the THH rhetoric that he strictly sticks to the FM/RY guidebook and thus his accusation of Robert citing/believing conspiracy theory. They only folks on earth that daily live/produce conspiracy theory are free-masons/ rotary / blue-blood folks fighting for their stakes without doing real work.
Ivermectin works 100x better that Remsdesivir!! When will all these "assssh.." switch their trials to live protecting medication ???
There is absolutely no need to lock in Children! <18
There is absolutely no need to lock in any person with no severe precondition of age < 65
Lock at Seven how to do it!
Do not listen to the crazy WHO folks that will make you claim you can get a reinfections thus being immune is not a reason to go out and walk without restriction. This is how we treat slaves! There are always people for all illnesses that do not develop enough anti bodies.
The idea of tracking containing people is born in the power hungry / money greedy brains. 10'000'000'000'000$ world wide covid-19 damage help money will be "spended" mostly to friends of friends to safe their stakes not to help you or suffering people. This is more money that has been given to the same people the last 10 years by their friends in the national banks.
At the end we were not attacked by corona: The establishment will suck you out and what will survive in the US - the front runner in this process - are only a few % of wealthy individuals.
Wyttenbach, I'm with you. Self-awareness (seeing outside) the box is obviously not the same as analytical intelligence. Otherwise millions of physicists wouldn't be stuck in their box.
But imo, take it or leave it, it is sad to see spinning their wheels fighting over loose crumbs of (manipulated) data, with layers and layers of falsehoods by mainstream media, a totally corrupt (CDC) - I've looked into this more). As soon as you found out they manipulate death data, you should have realized the whole game is corrupt. Trying to "back out" the fraud to determine the truth is wasting your life!
The game, of all of this, is to leave you intellectually exhausted fighting within their narrative. Never look at the big picture ($10T bailouts!)
They will roll in vaccination programs, digital IDs, tracking systems wrt those IDs and vaccination status, tracking and tracing, mass surveillance with hotspot cameras and all sorts of new infrastructure...and you will then be arguing about which model to use, whether the contracts should have gone to this company and that, and whether the "surveillance" should extend inside our homes, or just to the curbside.
Pharma vaccine conspiracy. [Sorry - Sunday - too much time on my hands].
Things that don’t stack up.
So Covid 19 and Zika are possibly creations of a cabal of super rich and Big Pharma with the aim to make tons of money out of a vaccine and possibly control us all.
I agree that Big Pharma is very powerful and it is well documented that their business model has no interest in curing anybody, more profitable to have them on pills for the rest of their lives.
And clearly they try to control and even manipulate research data to support their products and hide their failures. Historically the same as Big Oil with leaded petrol and many others.
But;
Oh No! Remesdivir flopped in its first trial; strike one against Big Pharma.
https://www.reuters.com/articl…st-trial-ft-idUSFWN2CB1EU
Considering they allegedly created the virus you would think they would have been better prepared.
And as to making tons of money from a vaccine; Strike two against Big Pharma.
https://whtc.com/news/articles…onavirus-vaccine/1011096/
In the race to develop a vaccine to end the COVID-19 pandemic, governments, charities and Big Pharma firms are sinking billions of dollars into bets with extraordinarily low odds of success.
“The crisis in the world is so big that each of us will have to take maximum risk now to put this disease to a stop," said Paul Stoffels, chief scientific officer at Johnson & Johnson , which has partnered with the U.S. government on a $1 billion investment to speed development and production of its still-unproven vaccine. “If it fails,” Stoffels told Reuters, “it will be bad.”
Historically, just 6% of vaccine candidates end up making it to market,
Additionally China and Russia are trying to make their own vaccines, so those markets will be lost to Big Pharma – Strike three!
Plus the USA is heading into a deep recession and possibly a depression.
The damage and destruction to business and wealth will be massive.
Presumably the secret cabal somehow does not include those businesses, so they did not get the memo or invited to the meetings, maybe they have their own secret cabal.
Trump is in the White House. Trump is your guy! He is an outsider who believes weird things he reads on the Internet. Surely any secret cabal would want a nice steady, business-as-usual, “establishment” guy in the White House. Not an unpredictable maverick. So how did they allow him to get elected in the first place?
In respect of tracking and controlling people; you do not need a secret cabal to do that. People just do it.
Since social media many are willing to sign away their data privacy for a few tokens.
Same in ancient Rome where the public were happy to tolerate the dictator Caesar in return for bread and circuses.
Indeed the Chinese communist party are making a very good go of it providing new cities with low priced houses tied to the acceptance of surveillance built into the agreement.
Now no doubt the Chinese are making good use of this pandemic to move forward their agendas where they can. So which is more likely – that the Chinese communist leadership are ultra-clever and have manufactured and controlled this whole outbreak from day 1, or option two that they were caught by surprise, tried to supress it, did a U-turn and fumbled their way through it?
Judging by every other government on the planet I go with option two.
This is just how I see it. There have been conspiracy theories of secret ruling cabals for centuries.
Actually I was once invited to join the Free Masons, which shows how desperate they must be because I am just not overlord material.
Of course the human mind is able to fit any collection of facts, rumour and speculation into a narrative. So like THHuxleynew I will probably be accused of being an establishment stooge (whatever the “establishment” is supposed to be).
Now, if and when, some entity gets control over an AI that is hundreds, or thousands, of times smarter than humans, then we may really be talking about world domination. So IMHO those are the entities we should be watching carefully and ensuring that adequate controls and safeguards are in place.
This is what the politically biased media in Illinois comes up with.
“Two people in Illinois had “inappropriate exposure” to disinfectants after President Trump’s COVID-19 briefing Thursday”.
2 out of 12,000,000, and as they did NOT
Inject or ingest this supposed disinfectant
The media has to write it as
“Inappropriate exposure”,
What does that even mean..
I agree that Big Pharma is very powerful and it is well documented that their business model has no interest in curing anybody, more profitable to have them on pills for the rest of their lives.
And clearly they try to control and even manipulate research data to support their products and hide their failures. Historically the same as Big Oil with leaded petrol and many others.
How the big pharma bloodsuckers treat you in case of autoimmune induced kidney failure (most frequent case) can be learnt from Russ George (most here know him) who successfully escaped them!
http://igan.russgeorge.net/201…t-iga-nephropathy-review/
Most of the time "simple" tonsillectomy is enough to stop the disease (detected by a French doctor - once more..). It's a cheap low cost therapy but somewhat painful if you are older than 16 years... Big pharma on the other side likes to fill you up - for many years - with immune suppressive or other drugs ("specific" medicine..) where most of them do not really help. Even worse they prevent you from using a potent drug once sold for 40$ now charged at 40'000$. More or less the same as Novartis does with you for the wet macula degeneration where you pay 100x (1000x) price for Lucentis (= Avastin). (This drug prevents the growing of new blood vessels - an old idea to "dry out" a tumor in the cancer cases.)
Now no doubt the Chinese are making good use of this pandemic to move forward their agendas where they can. So which is more likely – that the Chinese communist leadership are ultra-clever and have manufactured and controlled this whole outbreak from day 1, or option two that they were caught by surprise, tried to supress it, did a U-turn and fumbled their way through it?
The Chinese completely fail to understand the situation. Contrary to what you read in western media. Nobody can freely move around anymore. If you move e.g. from any city to Peking you have to self quarantine 3 weeks. Even if you came from a so called corona free area!!!
This is prime - private - information from a family out of the big state ruling connection.
China will crack down if they maintain there tracking/isolation strategy or all places will become closed working slaves farms.
https://www.miamiherald.com/ne…storylink=mainstage_card5
A mostly randomized sampling of the Miami area, provides more evidence the virus is much more widespread than believed:
"About 6 percent of Miami-Dade’s population — about 165,000 residents — have antibodies indicating a past infection by the novel coronavirus, dwarfing the state health department’s tally of about 10,600 cases, according to preliminary study results announced by University of Miami researchers Friday."
Found this little clip interesting:
"Gimenez said the survey’s early findings are informing the county’s decisions about how to allow limited openings of public areas, such as county parks. But he emphasized that social distancing measures will remain in place — and enforced by police and an army of 400 “event staff” members that Miami-Dade hired to ensure people follow the rules."
So they have hired 400 snitches, or "event staff" as they call them, to rat out their fellow citizens. Something tells me most Miamians will not like this. Wonder if they will be incognito?
How can they be made to compensate for the potential damage they've caused with this spurious VA study? I suppose THHuxleynew will claim there is no harm done since there was no evidence for HCQ being effective anyway. So it's wait and see if more data is forthcoming in the next two or three weeks.
I can't see that a little more (negative) evidence on the HCQ issue will have much effect. Locally clinicians will do what they think is best for their patients, and no-one knows yet what this is.
I would not be surprised if HCQ - administered in the right ways - had some therapeutic merit. I'd be surprised if it had a lot of merit (would have shown by now). I'd also not be surprised if it had no merit. There are a lot of other drugs that might have merit. Why single HCQ out? I'm all for test results for individual drugs, moving on to test results for combos.
THH
Here's a proposal to test Ivermectin and Nitazoxanide together:
The Efficacy of Ivermectin and Nitazoxanide in COVID-19 ...
clinicaltrials.gov › show › NCT04351347
17 Apr 2020 - Indicates that the study sponsor or investigator has submitted summary results information for a clinical study to ClinicalTrials.gov but the quality ...
QuoteSo they have hired 400 snitches, or "event staff" as they call them, to rat out their fellow citizens. Something tells me most Miamians will not like this. Wonder if they will be incognito
So, to your way of thinking, if someone reports a bunch of people planning a mass poisoning or airplane highjacking, that's "ratting" them out? What's the difference? The people being ratted out could kill innocent citizens or make them violently ill. BTQ, "ratting" is a term most used in prisons and by organized crime. You're in great company.
WTF?
"Estimated Primary Completion Date : December 1, 2030
Estimated Study Completion Date : December 1, 2030"
2030?! That's help a lot. Hopefully they meant 2020 and even then...
clinicaltrials.gov › show › NCT04351347
17 Apr 2020 - Indicates that the study sponsor or investigator has submitted summary results information for a clinical study to ClinicalTrials.gov but the quality ...
I have sympathy with your all or nothing approach
As usual THH has no argument and generalises away from the paper in question..
If THH takes time to read the many comments on the medxriv paper
he will find that NONEsupport the conclusion message that HCQ doesnt work..
a message that is now all over the news media...
I am discussing this particular hitpiece by a collection of PharmD's and PhD's who have clear conflicts of interest..
I am not discussing other papers... DO NOT GENERALISE THH..
I have worked with quite a few PharmD's who have their hands in the pockets of BigPharma
In this case ..specifically Gilead.. who favour Remsevedir..
Gilead has no interest in hydroxychloroquine as a a viable treatment..
on the other hand Novartis do.. they have donated the entire HCQ supply for Costa Rica's trial
The PharmD's , PHDs ,Gilead ,Novartis are all have self interest as strong motivations..
One comment on the paper is " why is it the Abstract political?"
" Why does the paper seem to address political points?
It seems like the Abstract is editorialized, which I'm not used to.
The result seems to address topical issues of the times,
having awareness of other similar studies being conducted,
rather than a standalone independent study of its own.
I interpret this as potential for some analysis/deciphering bias.
I don't mind in the Discussion sentence as it's normal,
I'm just not as accustomed to seeing it in the Abstract
IMHO this is a political paper with political intent .. not therapeutic in the least..
From vortex-l:
One more cheap and possibly good corona treatment. https://www.sciencemag.org/new…emedy-against-coronavirus
Might be not as broad in usage as Ivermectin but still way better than big pharma rubbish.
There are a lot of smart people (and a few that think they are) here.
What kind of financial move will be best?
I was thinking that Sweden might come out of this first and with less financial problems than most.
What about a Swedish ETF? EWD??
not sure if I believe it but there is a rumor going around that Pepcid AC is now being tested as a treatment.
???????
surely it must be a mistake??? /// alkalize blood???
No not a mistake.... I found info....
https://www.sciencemag.org/new…emedy-against-coronavirus
New York clinical trial quietly tests heartburn remedy against coronavirus
On 7 April, the first COVID-19 patients at Northwell Health in the New York City area began receiving famotidine intravenously, at nine times the heartburn dose.
As of Saturday, 187 COVID-19 patients in critical status, including many on ventilators, have been enrolled in the trial, which aims for a total of 1174 people. Reports from China and molecular modeling results suggest that the drug, which seems to bind to a key enzyme in the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), could make a difference.
possible addition to Bat vac ??
