Covid-19 News

Quote from Bob#2

Yes, indeed I am resentful, about a lot of things!

Many things have not been handled well. Many things are still not being handled well.

I am extremely resentful to those who criticize "fools and stupid" leaders for pushing economic considerations.

The leaders are not pushing economic considerations. They think they are, and you seem to agree, but they are not. They are trying to stop a fire by pouring gasoline on it.

They are doing things that will destroy the economy for years to come. Ending the lockdown now, without first taking steps to control the epidemic, will not improve the economy. It will devastate the economy. It may be the final blow that plunges us from temporary 20% unemployment into 30% or 40% unemployment for years to come, like the 1930s.

If you end the lockdown without first increasing the number of tests and case tracing, the epidemic will increase, and possibly go out of control. That's a fact. That's nature. The virus makes that happen, not us. If we do not control it, it will destroy us, and our economy.

Quote from Bob#2

So to say my resentment is misdirected is ignorant of real world conditions. Again, if you lived in a mult-county area that had less than 100 cases per county with no deaths, strict lock down laws where removing YOUR day to day income so that YOU could not pay bills and were in danger of losing everything...

I do not know where you live, but in Georgia the worst hit areas per capita are rural areas.

A leader who imposes the rules mindlessly, without taking into account local conditions, is an idiot. In New York, Cuomo has adjusted the lockdown rules for rural areas with few cases. In many rural counties in Japan there has not been a single case. There was a sort of voluntary lockdown for a week, but it was ignored. Some people there did not even know it was in force. (I told them.)

Quote from Deleo

If any of these antibody shots were to work, it would be a huge deal. I put them above anything else in terms of something to hope for (besides a vaccine).

As noted, they are not a substitute for the vaccine. Hopefully, they will work for a while. But they fade away, because the body is not making them itself. They may be a good way to keep seriously ill patients alive, or limit damage, or help them recover sooner. Valuable, but not a long term cure.

I think antivirals similar to Tamiflu may also keep patients alive, limit damage, and speed recovery. I cannot judge, but perhaps antivirals are as promising as the antibody shots. So I would put both antibody and antiviral drugs at the top of the list of hopeful therapeutics.

The antibody technique was developed in the early 1900s, but it was largely abandoned.

I know this is getting repetitive and boring but if the US and UK are opening up from lockdown surely it's time to give Mass Fever Treatment? Anti Bat. Millions dead otherwise. Another worrying bit of news I heard on the radio. Local An Goth nationalists in Cornwall are forming vigilante groups armed with shotguns and are planting booby traps to stop tourists coming down here and spreading the virus! Keeping the emmets out. Mounting roadblocks. No longer under police or government control, we Cornish are about to become a separate state! Long live St Pirin, Prince Charles, and Trelawny because twenty thousand Cornishmen want to know the reason why.

Quote from Alan Smith

According to tonight's Corona breifing the R is creeping up nearer to 1. And easing the lockdown has barely begun.

The only good news from the UK is that the Daily Deaths seems to be trending down, in fits and starts:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Maybe that means there is more testing, so more active cases are being found, and the actual number may be declining. That's my guess.

To change the subject, I said that people stayed at home in Georgia before the mandate was imposed, and they were still at home on May 2 after it was partially lifted. The leaders have no power to force people home, or to entice them out. Trump and Kemp can blather all they want about opening the economy. It will not happen unless they put in place policies that actually control the virus. Claiming that "we fixed it" and "the problems are behind us" does not work because a virus does not understand English, or politics, and you can't bribe it with a tax break.

See Georgia data here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0…my-government-orders.html

Government Orders Alone Didn’t Close the Economy. They Probably Can’t Reopen It.

Data shows there was a drop in spending and working even before any official mandates to stay at home.

Quote from JedRothwell

Data shows there was a drop in spending and working even before any official mandates to stay at home.

Similar voluntary spending curbs have happened in Sweden... without govt compulsion

"A Danish study released earlier this week revealed that Danish consumers in lockdown conditions similar to those

in Australia and elsewhere around the world

reduced their spending by 29 per cent. In Sweden with no mandated lockdown, it was 25 per cent.

https://www.theaustralian.com.…c2f49086278e9ace1719ee67a

Shane D. and others who support "letting the virus rip".

We have a chance to see what that will mean, for good or bad. Bolsonaro in Brazil seems to be firmly committed to that approach. Let us observe, carefully, what happens there?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52682358

Quote from THHuxleynew

Shane D. and others who support "letting the virus rip".

We have a chance to see what that will mean, for good or bad. Bolsonaro in Brazil seems to be firmly committed to that approach. Let us observe, carefully, what happens there?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52682358

Not sure if you consider me a "let er ripper" but I am not.

The logical step would be to closely monitor and quarantine high risks groups, giving them as much support as possible.

Certainly not requiring nursing homes to take positive Covid patients like in New York! Talk about Jed's "idiot leaders"!

Keep in place as much personal safety practice as one can, such as washing, masks (to help prevent spread more than protection) and even some closures of high risk events. Having 10,000 people in a "standing room only" music concert, dancing, rubbing and sneezing on each other is not a good idea by any means., regardless of age.

I know that "high risk" events is a bit arbitrary, but it could be determined.

Forcing mom and pop stores to close does nothing,... especially if you are going to leave Walmart and Home Depot open allowing hundreds at a time.

Closing state parks outdoor hiking trails and fishing venues is crazy when you let people crowd the local pot store to get high! Yes that is true.

There is a BIG difference between lock downs such as Governor Pritzker and certain others push versus actually quarantining the high risk, early medical attention to symptoms as such and practicing general sanitary habits.

Almost ALL leaders are now reopening in some fashion... so I guess Jed thinks that all leaders are stupid and morons. Almost ALL countries are reopening, even though the stats show otherwise, so all those leaders must be morons and stupid.

China was once held high in esteem... but now we know they covered up and lied and almost certainly still do. So Korea has the only smart leaders in the world! (Oh perhaps New Zealand, that island country of less than 4 million)

No, I am not a "let er rip" person. I doubt that hardly anyone here is. Again, that is intentional misrepresentation, so given to personally tarnish and actually a fool's argument.

There are other options, even if some do not want to consider them.

Quote from Bob#2

Jed thinks that all leaders are stupid and morons.

This mayor goes for a bungee jump.. to celebrate unlockdowm

Quote from JedRothwell

The antibody technique was developed in the early 1900s, but it was largely abandoned.

It remerged with a combination therapy for Aids and Hepatitis.

And guess what: Many substance like Heparin, Ivermectin, HCQ etc. are antibodies for the virus too. In fact these substance do have a dual use as the most efficient antibiotics are also anti virals. Already in one of my first comments I wrote that antibodies will be the only short time solution and vaccination is just a $$ dream or simply crazy to do in time.

Quote from Bob#2

More people die every year of starvation than Covid19

Not in the US. I couldn't even find reports of people starving to death in the US. One would make headlines. In the undeveloped world, of course, but not the US. Please keep the comparisons reasonable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States

The other point is that the coronavirus which causes COVID-19 is far from done in the USA. Way far, unfortunately.

Like Jed, I am very sympathetic to people whose businesses and incomes have disappeared or greatly diminished. He has accurately fixed the blame. The only thing we can do is rely on intelligent policies to bring testing and contact tracing into universal use including antibody testing so we can intelligently allow those who are relatively safe to work as soon as possible. Unfortunately the idiot yoyo's who insist on prancing around without masks or social distancing, and those who clump together at parties, churches and other events (most of which have no economic value anyway), widely spreading the disease, make it impossible for the reasonable people to get back to work without the risk of maiming or killing themselves or someone else they come into contact with while asymptomatic. So whose fault is that?

Antibodies have antagonist properties... true.. as do heparin... because they bind to one or more active sites on the virus,,

but antibodies are normally proteins manufactured by the B cells.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564885/

Quote from THHuxleynew

Shane D. and others who support "letting the virus rip".

We have a chance to see what that will mean, for good or bad. Bolsonaro in Brazil seems to be firmly committed to that approach. Let us observe, carefully, what happens there?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52682358

Nelson Teich departs with Brazil seeing hundreds of deaths each day this week

Thomson Reuters · Posted: May 15, 2020 12:48 PM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

...Teich, who disagreed with right-wing President Jair Bolsonaro, has submitted his resignation and will hold a news conference later Friday, his office said. Bolsonaro has been pushing in recent days for wider use of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19, which Teich resisted.

Teich is the second health minister to resign amid the coronavirus pandemic in Brazil. In mid-April he replaced Nelson Mandetta, who also resisted broader use of hydroxychloroquine and disagreed with Bolsonaro's argument to do away with quarantines and other coronavirus restrictions.

From another article:

Medical researchers have found that the drug, first approved in 1955, provided no benefit and potentially higher risk of death for COVID-19 patients....

“Bolsonaro does not want a technical minister, he wants someone who agrees with his ideological insanity, like ending social distancing and using chloroquine,” Molon, a lawmaker from the Brazilian Socialist Party, said in a statement.

You've been trained. Draw your own conclusions. Do these Ministers live and die by the truth, or do they get paid? If they get paid, they the media must be paid to write stories like that. And if that is happening in Brazil, and many other countries --- who are these people who pay and can exert such a powerful influence across borders. This doesn't need a detective folks.

I noticed antibodies, presumably synthetic monoclonal antibodies, mention and in context with cancer. While rarely profound results in terms of tumor regression and over all remission can be achieved with these, usually they buy the patient only a few weeks or months. Valuable but hardly up to the hype they get. Even oncolytic viruses, often genetically re-engineered, are used to treat brain cancer: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3632333/

MAB's against coronavirus are just starting to be developed. Some which block cytokine storm already exist. What effects these will eventually have on the COVID-19 disease is unknown as of yet. Here is a typical sample article, so far only in tissue culture:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y

Quote from Navid

Medical researchers have found that the drug, first approved in 1955, provided no benefit and potentially higher risk of death for COVID-19 patients....

The mafia seems to be present everywhere: That's what we see since more than 2 months. Fringe studies about HCQ - most of the time given alone - either Zinc nor a working antibiotics - to people after 9 days of first symptoms, that anyway, in average, will most likely die.

Just repeating: The US health mafia wanted to develop their own $$$ antibody test and failed. --> USA had no chance to confirm infections for a long time. E.g. people in Florida had to wait up to 9 days for central lab result. Greetings from the tomb!

Gilead finances an army of paid doctors COVID-19 Panel Gilead Ties.pdf to influence CDC/WHO to avoid making HCQ and other drugs a standard treatment.

I should not complain: The Swiss company Roche seems to master the business as they are now the prime provider for both tests (virus & antibody) including testing machines. May be there is some value associated with living in a balanced society and a political system that cannot be fully dominated by the mafia as seen in the USA.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Gilead finances an army of paid doctors COVID-19 Panel Gilead Ties.pdf to influence CDC/WHO to avoid making HCQ and other drugs a standard treatment.

May be there is some value associated with living in a balanced society and a political system that cannot be fully dominated by the mafia as seen in the USA.

7 members failed to disclosed a relationship with the maker of Remdesivir including 2 co-chairs of the committee that refused to recommend HCQ.

If I knew someone who died of this disease I would put them on trial for murder. How pathetic are the people in these countries who will continue to suffer this abuse. This committee with 9 confirmed ties and 7 undisclosed ties to Remedesivir's GIlead must laugh at them.

Quote from RobertBryant

Similar voluntary spending curbs have happened in Sweden... without govt compulsion

"A Danish study released earlier this week revealed that Danish consumers in lockdown conditions similar to those

in Australia and elsewhere around the world

reduced their spending by 29 per cent. In Sweden with no mandated lockdown, it was 25 per cent.

On NHK news just now they reported that sales at the two major department stores are off by 80% and 95%. The stores were not closed as far as I know. There was a lockdown for a while, but it was not followed very seriously. In many parts of the country, it was ignored. So, people are reducing their spending whether there is a lockdown or not. No doubt the lockdown is causing economic problems. But it is not causing all of the problems, and ending the lockdown will not solve those problems. If the lockdown is ended without safeguards, that will surely make the economy worse.

As I said, traffic at the Atlanta airport is down 95%. This is the busiest airport in the world. Most of the traffic is in the U.S., not international. There was never any ban on travelling in the U.S. No lockdown of any sort. But, 95% of people decided on their own not to travel. Including me. No government mandate forced me, and there is no way I will get back on an airplane no matter what Trump or our nitwit governor Kemp says. I would no more do that than take a cruise ship! So, you cannot blame government mandates for destroying the air travel business by interfering in our freedom to travel. You can blame the government because it has done nothing to contain the virus. It could have easily contained the disease, and kept total deaths to a few thousand. It could have done that for a tiny fraction of what it has spent bailing out airlines. But the leaders decided not to do that, because they are idiots. They will not spend a few billion dollars to avoid losing $3 trillion, and 150,000 lives.