Covid-19 News

    Quote from axil

    End of the Road for HCQ in COVID-19?

    But we already know that late stage use does little. The study was on those hospitalized.


    I thought the issue was early application of HCQ to decrease the replication of the virus at the early stages. not to repair damage already done. My understanding (as limited as it is) is that HCQ is claimed to help Zn interfere with replication to decrease the viral load early to limit damage and having lots of those nasty little things in you. That is keep the numbers down so your body can "do its thing".

    Quote from RobertBryant

    "We covered over 2 months ago how flawed the design of this research was.

    Yes it’s testing hydroxychloroquine, but not at an early stage, and not in combination with azithromycin and/or zinc.


    http://covexit.com/uk-recovery…atment-predictably-fails/



    Ok - the point is that from the literature we do not know which of these combo is best:


    HCQ + AZT

    HCQ

    HCQ + Zn

    HCQ + AZT + Zn


    One reason not to do HCQ + AZT is that then to see if HCQ was good you would need TWO arms, because you'd have to do just AZT as well.


    I agree, the recovery trial rules out only one thing. But there are so many combos available...


    If you want evidence for "the best" combo you need to filer all evidence positive and negative by that combo.


    Although Zn is obviously needed the question is whether intracellular electrolyte (or whatever it is called) concentration of Zn chnages, and by how much, from overdosing on Zn. Adding Zn to get up to notrmal levels is just sensible but Zn deficiency is not common, so will not affect results. overdosing on Zn is effectively a new drug.


    Nor do i know that the levels of Zn used by e.g. Zelenko (the only guy who has this thing about zinc, then others follow him hoping) alter the lung fluid levels of Zn.


    So:

    (1) what is effect of ODing on zinc? How does it affect Zn levels in fluids, how much can we do before side effects?

    (2) what is the evidence in the literature for / against zinc on its own, or as combo.


    Perhaps those saying all the trials are rubbish could say what trial they think is not rubbish, and what is evidence for that combo alone being good?

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Ok - the point is that from the literature we do not know which of these combo is best:


    HCQ + AZT

    HCQ

    HCQ + Zn

    HCQ + AZT + Zn


    This is known since more than 3 months. One more proof some of "your shades" does not read the forums


    HCQ promotes Zn into the cell what stops virus replication. This is known form other tests with HCQ and different but similar virus. HCQ mildly bind to the virus as does AZT to. Heparin binds much stronger and Ivermectin even more.


    Most doctors are stubborn morons that only accept there own view (= what they learnt once in live - long time ago..) . But you can be pretty sure that Heparin/Ivermectin will be once the prime medication. Any trial with HCQ alone (without Zn) - except for prevention- is a morons act.


    One more Warning: Beware of children: These can very well infect older vulnerable people without showing symptoms. We just had a small hot spot in a classroom that did not stick to the 2 meters rule!

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Ok - the point is that from the literature we do not know which of these combo is best:


    HCQ + AZT

    HCQ

    HCQ + Zn

    HCQ + AZT + Zn


    This is known since more than 3 months. One more proof some of "your shades" does not read the forums


    HCQ promotes Zn into the cell what stops virus replication. This is known form other tests with HCQ and different but similar virus. HCQ mildly bind to the virus as does AZT to. Heparin binds much stronger and Ivermectin even more.


    Most doctors are stubborn morons that only accept there own view (= what they learnt once in live - long time ago..) . But you can be pretty sure that Heparin/Ivermectin will be once the prime medication. Any trial with HCQ alone (without Zn) - except for prevention- is a morons act.


    One more Warning: Beware of children: These can very well infect older vulnerable people without showing symptoms. We just had a small hot spot in a classroom that did not stick to the 2 meters rule!


    W - it is my curse to reply to you, even though you repeatedly do not read my posts.


    Let me ask you a question. Why do you repeat what I accepted (that higher intracellular fluid Zn levels were likely helpful) telling me that I'm arguing against it? Weird.


    Now go back and see what my argument was.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    higher intracellular fluid Zn


    New sinus rinse promotes high Zinc in nasopharyngeal epithelia.. potent anticoronavirus action

    50 Millimolar zinc has synergistic sinugisitc action with 10 mM chloroquine/HCQ and 20 mM ivermectin.

    Green tea, clove, turmeric, cannabinoid or natto flavours avallable

    Guaranteed to take your sinuses and Covid19 to Arizona..

    endorsed by Saran Desai (Surgisphere)... Lancet, NEJM, WHO....


    Instructions ..Suck up thoroughly and spit out twice daily..."in the morning, in the evening all ovr this land"


    Trump "a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine... incredible"

    Clinton.. Suck it..Do not inhale

    Gates"“No, that’s a dead end. That would be a bad thing. Don’t do that.”

    Gary Lenius" Absolutely nontoxic.. but do not swallow""


    Can also be used for armpit and jock itch..

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Was talking today with a serious virology expert. They are expecting the UK to have a serious '2nd wave' in July that will be more deadly than the first..


    Not sure how it can be more deadly than the first wave.

    Scientists now have a much better handle on the infectiousness and other virus characteristics than they did a few months ago. Different approaches (such as Sweden's) have been tried and evaluated.

    The clinicians have learned lessons on the best protocols to use and the risks of ventilators and are learning and improving all the time.

    The care homes disaster should at least result in a safer approach for a second wave.

    And one would hope that even the UK government might have learned by their mistakes with PPE stocks etc.

    So we should be better prepared for any second wave.

    :/ Although one press article did say that the Prime Ministers "world class" track and trace system might not be "world class" till September.

    Quote from Bob#2

    Brother!


    Peace bro from Oceania.


    The zero active cases figure was reached in NZ today..

    They were waiting on the last one for a week or so..

    Australia might take a few more days

    Makes the "track and trace" simpler

    Stiil .. PM Ardern was unapproving..

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    Wow. And while Trump and many others no doubt would view Wanda's marketing as a good way to formulate COVID-19 treatments, I'd not expect many others here to agree with them?


    Does Wanda have any evidence? (Here I feel the colored highlight meme has become catching and I'd wish to follow RB in coloring, bolding, increasing font size on the word evidence).


    More seriously what are the units here? 50 mMol/l seems a very high concentration, if that is the intracellular fluid concentration needed?


    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01993964 (intracellular free zinc 2 X 10^-8 M)


    Note on units: M is used has shorthand for Mol/l. So this is a level some 1,000,000 times lower than Wanda's 50 mM zinc, which would likely kill COVID and pretty well everything else organic.


    However, I think Wanda refers to a dosage (daily? weekly? who knows) taken orally. In that case the corresponding change to intracellular zinc levels from taking this amount of zinc, if any, is unclear. I'm sure we can find evidence if interested though, and it is not a stupid idea to do so.


    Before critiquing presence/absence of Zn in HCQ treatment tests some basic sanity testing in terms of purpose and dosage of oral Zn would be sensible.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    OK. That's enough eyeballs. An interesting sideways look, but let's get back to the Pandemic. Was talking today with a serious virology expert. They are expecting the UK to have a serious '2nd wave' in July that will be more deadly than the first..

    Alan,

    Just as an exercise, define “worse”.


    Then, sometime after July, let’s see if the virology expert is right. If they’re not, is he/she still an expert?

    I suspect a model showing same was built using whatever available data, but, like all previous Covid models, it will be rebuilt.


    If not, maybe your connection is onto something?

    Quote from Bob#2

    So how do you think "track and trace" is going to work with all these mass riots, lootings and even the peaceful protests going on?


    There are not many riots, and people who are rioting tend to keep their distance from one another, and from the police. Most of the people attending peaceful protests are wearing masks. They are all outdoors, which is much better than being indoors. A Chinese study of the locations where people became infected found only one instance of an outdoor infection, out of several hundred cases, as I recall. That is not to say people shouldn't wear masks in crowds.


    Many of the protest marchers are keeping social distance. I noticed Mitt Romney's group was keeping distance front to back, not so much left to right. I read that front to back transmission is more likely outdoors.


    The people protesting the lockdown, especially the armed group in Michigan, were not wearing masks, not keeping social distance, and they were inside the state capital building.


    In April, large groups of Orthodox Jewish mourners gathered in Brooklyn for funerals. Very few of them were wearing masks, and they were more crowded together than recent protesters. This was a the height of the epidemic in New York City. The police and city officials tried to break up the crowds. Ironically, the funerals were for people who died of the coronavirus. The Orthodox Jewish community has had some of the highest infection and mortality rates in New York City.



    Japanese researchers showed that face to face conversation even at 2 m distance may transmit the virus, so you should wear a mask if you do that, even outdoors.

    Quote from RobertBryant

    The zero active cases figure was reached in NZ today..

    They were waiting on the last one for a week or so..


    Japan is close to zero. There were 18 cases, 3 deaths. The population is much larger than NZ.



    In the U.S., cases are steady but deaths are down. I think this indicates there is more testing, especially in Georgia.


    Cases and deaths have declined by very large numbers in states that implemented tracking and warning people have been exposes, especially Massachusetts, and also New York and New Jersey. A few weeks ago, they were the epicenter of the pandemic, with the highest per capita infection rates in the world. They are now lower than states where tracking and warning have not been implemented, such as Arizona and Georgia. Massachusetts now has 304 new cases per day. It is #22 in the list, even though the population is large. That compares to 1,438 in Arizona, 1,180 in Florida, and 539 in Georgia, for example.


    Overall, a week ago, cases are rising in 18 states, falling in 16, and stable in the others. I think those numbers are out of date.


    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/massachusetts/


    (The June 1 spike in Massachusettes was an adjustment to account for previous cases.)



    If the U.S. as a whole does not implement tracking, warning and quarantine, and it takes another six months to deploy a vaccine, 50,000 to 100,000 people will die for no reason, and hundreds of thousands more, especially young people, will be disabled for life. As far as I know, the administration has no plans to implement these things.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    Roseland67


    The CDC website has information about 'waves' of deaths in the 1918 pandemic. Second was worse than first. Similar thing happened in the 1890's (Russian Flu) pandemic.


    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandem…emoration/three-waves.htm


    Not often considered, but the experts say this (and it is obvious).


    Previous pandemic waves are attacks by new versions of a Flu virus after the old version epidemic has died out due to immunity (and also weather effects).


    For COVID, we are stuck on wave 1 due to lockdown, which reduces infections without causing much "herd" immunity.


    So the issue is really does wave 1 go up again when lockdown is released, or is the combination of measures we have in place then enough to stop it. There does not seem to be much of a weather effect, though there may be a bit - e.g. people eating outside in restaurants is better than eating inside. Anyway COVID immunity rates are too low to make much difference.


    Countries having eradicated the infection have a much easier time doing this - they just need to be on the alert to trace occasional new imported or deep frozen cases. (Literally - you could catch COVID from frozen food a year after a previous epidemic!)


    The "wave" language is misleading because it supposes that having "beaten" one wave with lockdown, the same thing can't come back. It will come back if lockdown is released and we do not have other equally effective measures in place, unless the infection rate is high enough to put immunity into play, which it is not with COVID.


    One proviso - even at low overall infection rates you can get high infections in essential workers (health staff) so it is possible to benefit a bit from some immunity in these people even though the population immunity is insignificant.

    Sweden will start tracking and tracing again since we are safe regarding number of people needing health care. The number of deaths per day is about 40 and considered high. The number of deaths in society is equal expected number now and will probably go negative soon. This is an effect that this virus tend to kill those about to die more than other people. Most deaths is from the elderly care which in Sweden is a perfect match for corona. This will end with higher taxes, better elderly care and I hope a study trip to Japan for the experts. Good news as I have been ashamed how we have treated the one that built the country.

    The timeline in the beginning of the Corona outbreak is interesting. I will try to answer why Sweden did not track and trace.


    0. First it was believed that China would fix this as they use to do, and experts where not worried much, There are alarms all the time

    from China and closing the border each time is a bit silly.


    1. We did first, successfully avoided epidemic from Italy and China. But they where using information from WHO to point to

    the countries and outbreaks and focus the attention on those planes. The spread in Sweden started from travelers from USA,

    Great Britain and Germany. So the correct measures would be to have closed the borders as you would not know from where the

    spread would come. It takes guts to close the borders, it is really not that an easy task, especially if your fellow countries does not

    do the same, and experts thought they had it under control.


    3. The spread increases and by the time you get a hint that oups this person seam to be untracable, there are maybe 5000-10000 infected out

    in society actually this figure was unknown, just that this sickness doubled in three days. This is where they lost confidence in using trace and track,

    perhaps it is an effect of resources, but all focus was now on how to limit the effect on health care, they wanted to focus all resources on that. It was

    not a nice starting point, Sweden had very few IC beds and ventilators, not much testkits, and all equipment was via a modern lean delivery without

    much stocks, very economical just in time.

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