Covid-19 News

I guess it all depends on whether you apply an equal skepticism to the information sources you replace them with.

Quote from THHuxleynew

One reason I dislike the conspiracy theory stuff is that it is seldom debated honestly. When it is, those proposing these far-out explanations bring together a set of apparently corroborative facts without any research into alternate causes or sense of balance. It annoys me.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Whether the US gets out of CV semi-lockdown will depend on how many people are convinced by the antivaxer arguments.

THH itself is spreading conspiracy albeit he doesn't like it - at least he tells...

But there is only one fact based on historic data: The biggest and most influential conspiracy theories are made/invented by the ruling government.

- Seit 05.45 wird zurückgeschosen! Start of WWII after a fake attack of German agent on the own state radio transmission tower...

- Unnumbered cases in France that e.g. did lead to genocide of Huguenots, Jews etc..

- 9/11 after all we know.

- ..

But this "Whether the US gets out of CV semi-lockdown will depend on how many people are convinced by the antivaxer arguments." is worst FUD since a long time.

There is no vaccine !! Thus the above is also a conspiracy that a vaccine does exist. On the other side everybody can get immunity by commissioning a classic corona cold.

or:

Quote from Lou Pagnucco

Ivermectin + Azithromycin successful trial of 1,300 patients in Dominican Republic --

President of Dominican Republic’s Largest Private Health Group Discusses the Success of Ivermectin as a Treatment for Early Stage COVID-19

Excerpt: "Of the 1,300 patients we have treated (early state cases), over 99% have been cured within 8 to 10 days. It has been frankly amazing. It’s truly feels like a gift from above.

The use of the correct medication makes CoV-19 the same as a mild flue.

Trump buys al Remsdesivir up to October (Tagesanzeiger!) https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/u…orraete-leer-324940007518

This is outraging criminality as an US president officially buys an untested drug to boost the stock of a (friend??) "health mafia" lead company! This is also a waste of taxpayers money!

I am personally very glad that this crap is off market now and thus also pharma mafia tributary doctors are indirectly force to use working medication like Ivermectin/Heparin Doxycycline or Avigan etc..

Quote from Wyttenbach

The biggest and most influential conspiracy theories are made/invented by the ruling government...

...Unnumbered cases in France that e.g. did lead to genocide of Huguenots, Jews etc..

Arf! A little bit rich when coming from your good self...

Did we ever get to the bottom of what the J stood for in your imfamous "FreeMason/Rotarian/J mafia"?

Quote from Toffoli

causation is always associated to a correlation. So a correlation may be a red-flag for causation.

Well, no, that is just wrong. In every way. We agree that correlation does not imply causation. In fact given the interconnected world in which we live MOST correlation is non-causal.

Saying it may be a red flag is weasel words. It is true, that correlation and causation can both be true. However correlation (on its own) never implies causation. Also, causation can exist without correlation, just as (in the vast majority of cases) correlation exists without causation.

Seeing this as a red flag makes you, incorrectly, biassed towards every conspiracy theory going.

Quote from THHuxleynew

That is why vaccines get RCTs. Big ones. Even so, once you vaccinate a whole population you lose any reliable way to detect low level adverse effects of the vaccine. High level ones - pretty obvious. And such vaccines get stopped.

It's about the quality of the RCT. THH full well knows (because he's been told by moi) that vaccines fall under a different set of rules than normal drugs for testing.

The 'controls' in vaccine studies are not inert saline solutions like they are with drugs. No, the placebo is the vaccine with only the antigen removed, and all the toxic crap left in. That, or else the placebo is just a previously approved vaccine! Also, subjects are not monitored for years as they are with drugs. No, it's a matter of months, and long term adverse effects cannot be properly assessed.

But for those curious about vaccine side effects in the short term, go to the fda.org website at look for the 'package insert' for a particular vaccine. At least there the short term effects are laid bare.

Yes, some vaccines are 'stopped' here for safety reasons when one brand of vaccine on the market has significantly worse outcomes than another on the market. The less safe version then gets shipped off to less developed countries.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Sorry to go on about this, but it is very topical for this thread.

In medicine, working out the effect of any treatment (whether COVID treatment, or vaccine) is very difficult exactly because correlations are not necessarily (in fact not even usually) causative). The one guaranteed tool to get reliable information is the quadruple-blind randomizes control trial, where there can be no extraneous correlational links, and therefore no unconsidered causation. Any correlation you see then must be the direct result of the randomized intervention.

That is why vaccines get RCTs. Big ones. Even so, once you vaccinate a whole population you lose any reliable way to detect low level adverse effects of the vaccine. High level ones - pretty obvious. And such vaccines get stopped.

You cannot track changes over time that correlate with vaccination and assume causation:

(a) because many other societal changes will also correlate

(b) because level of vaccination may be correlated with other things

You cannot correlate outcome with vax versus non-vax and assume causation:

(a) because levels of vaccination may vary over time and locality, and correlate with other things

(b) because whether children are vaccinated may directly correlate with other factors (social, medical) in family circumstances

Why so important for this thread?

Whether the US gets out of CV semi-lockdown will depend on how many people are convinced by the antivaxer arguments.

It matters more than just a lot more children getting very bad measles infections (which we now have because of the 20 years old MMR vaccine false testimony from a single high profile doctor).

Usually in society we shrug off possible low level adverse effects. In fact we ignore even high level adverse effects caused by pollution and known (because we have the causative mechanism). However certain things catch the imagination and become causes:

• Society mandating that doctors stick needles into children for the good of society
• Low level risks from nuclear contamination
• Medical effects of e-m radiation

Probably a few others involving aliens and UFOs. It is not that all of these low-level risks are as far-fetched as abduction by aliens. What they share is a reason for conviction that is non-rational.

Where you are proposing low-level risks it is just very difficult, without a direct and demonstrated quantitative causative mechanism, to know anything. Into that uncertainty underlying convictions shine through.

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Has anyone from this forum ever met you in real life? You certainly have a great skill in sophistry does it translate to real life?

If I was paying to have the bottom 20% of the internet be confused by pseudo intellectualism, I'd use the same mix of tactics. Vaccines certainly are the entire reason we are here today - so interesting that you are amping up your arguments by stirring in UFOs, aliens, and vaccines.

Quote from Navid

Vaccines certainly are the entire reason we are here today

Just to get this bit straight: You’re suggesting that Bill Gates (or someone) created/spread the ‘rona round so he can forcibly vaccinate everyone, right?

...You may well be a part of that 20%.

And Sam12 wonders why the only MD here decided to stop posting.

Quote from Zeus_46

Just to get this bit straight: You’re suggesting that Bill Gates (or someone) created/spread the ‘rona round so he can forcibly vaccinate everyone, right?

...You may well be a part of that 20%.

And Sam12 wonders why the only MD here decided to stop posting.

Locked down, waiting for a vaccine to "save the world" from a bad flu. Go back and look - I said months ago the evidence is that this is no worse than a bad flu (with treatments applied) in terms of mortality. I said 0.3% with the potential to be 0.1% or less. The fact that I can see that, means this isn't about science -- this is about a multifaceted business model, ontop of which other things are playing out.

Wuhan lab may have made a virus. You can tell a lame-broken-intelligence (or FUD disseminator) when they suggest what you think - I did not suggest that Gates made it- you did. Actors act on top of situations. A pharma company will start making a vaccine - irrespective of whether gain of function research happened in Fort Detrick & Wuhan - or not.

Because its an opportunity, not because ever person is complicit in every situation. But once a piece of the plan is in momentum, they fund their agenda - we call that marketing. There is a marketing budget for pharma in the media - to ensure favorable stories come out. There is a black budget for pharma on the internet - to stir doubt about those who mention anything about vaccine safety. Do we have to feed you this knowledge in spoon like pablum to a baby?

G4 EA H1N1 on radar

Fauci: New virus in China has traits of 2009 swine flu and 1918 pandemic flu

White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said Tuesday that U.S. health officials are keeping an eye on a new strain of flu carried by pigs in China that has characteristics of the 2009 H1N1 virus and 1918 pandemic flu. The virus, which scientists are calling “G4 EA H1N1,” has not yet been shown to infect humans but it is exhibiting “reassortment capabilities,” Fauci told the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee during a hearing.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/202…nd-1918-pandemic-flu.html

Quote from Navid

But once a piece of the plan is in momentum

Now we’re getting somewhere. So not Gates, but “someone” (Fort Detrick?) created/spread the ‘rona, and not to forcibly vaccinate everyone, but for other nefarious reasons.

Care to enlighten us as to who this “someone” might be, and their reasons for doing it?

...Or spoon-feed the pabulum, as it were.

Quote from Navid

Locked down, waiting for a vaccine to "save the world" from a bad flu. Go back and look - I said months ago the evidence is that this is no worse than a bad flu (with treatments applied) in terms of mortality. I said 0.3% with the potential to be 0.1% or less.

All of which is wrong. Look at the case mortality rates for Korea, Japan or any other country with decent healthcare. You will see that it is 2% with best medical care available. Look at the fact that 5% of young people need to be hospitalized, and some of them are still gravely ill months later, coughing up blood, unable to climb a flight of stairs. Does that sound a bad flu? Maybe you mean the 1918 Spanish flu.

Quote from Mark U

It's about the quality of the RCT. THH full well knows (because he's been told by moi) that vaccines fall under a different set of rules than normal drugs for testing.

The 'controls' in vaccine studies are not inert saline solutions like they are with drugs. No, the placebo is the vaccine with only the antigen removed, and all the toxic crap left in. That, or else the placebo is just a previously approved vaccine! Also, subjects are not monitored for years as they are with drugs. No, it's a matter of months, and long term adverse effects cannot be properly assessed.

But for those curious about vaccine side effects in the short term, go to the fda.org website at look for the 'package insert' for a particular vaccine. At least there the short term effects are laid bare.

Yes, some vaccines are 'stopped' here for safety reasons when one brand of vaccine on the market has significantly worse outcomes than another on the market. The less safe version then gets shipped off to less developed countries.

It has to be thus (removing the unwarranted emotive slurs), to avoid placebo effect.

Frankly, we are not able to assess low level long-term adverse effects of food items. Does not stop us eating.

What we DO know is that vaccines stop dangerous diseases.

And just now, with COVID-19, anti-vax thinking in the US will be disastrous if it influences a significant segment of the population.

It is politically - in the widest sense of a mindset that has a specific view about the type of relationships we should have in society - motivated.

Many people put politics above health, above common sense, above peace. I don't. But then I'm not very political...

Quote from Navid

If I was paying to have the bottom 20% of the internet be confused by pseudo intellectualism, I'd use the same mix of tactics. Vaccines certainly are the entire reason we are here today - so interesting that you are amping up your arguments by stirring in UFOs, aliens, and vaccines.

Navid - my post which you say was sophistry contained coherent arguments. No nods and winks. If you think they are wrong, you could present the counterarguments?

I make it a policy, when people argue things I disagree with, to try to address the points they make, rather than their character, or motives. Whether an argument is correct, or incorrect, it can be argued or rebutted, motives do not matter.

nice map of cases/deaths by zipcode.

It does cover all of them but it is good for the ones it does.

I am happy to know that my zipcode has 0 cases and 0 deaths so far.

Quote from Zeus46

Did we ever get to the bottom of what the J stood for in your imfamous "FreeMason/Rotarian/J mafia"?

What about once a real contribution from your side? Shall I educate you the difference between Jews and J-mafia? Any mafia is a shame for an ethnos. The J-mafia are the people that bought half of the Russian assets from Jelzin. These people start to think earliest when at least 50mio$ are at stake. But this would be true small money.

Quote from JedRothwell

All of which is wrong. Look at the case mortality rates for Korea, Japan or any other country with decent healthcare. You will see that it is 2% with best medical care available. Look at the fact that 5% of young people need to be hospitalized, and some of them are still gravely ill months later, coughing up blood, unable to climb a flight of stairs. Does that sound a bad flu? Maybe you mean the 1918 Spanish flu.

Give you a whisky! The mortality is well below 0.1% now confirmed! It's .8% now for the tested positive US cases. But as said there are 20-50x more people that just got it without decent symptoms.

You should stop to worry unless you land in a US hospital and they fill you up with the Gilead crap. Ivermectin/Heparin + an AB if its worse will save more than 99% of the tested + people!

Quote from THHuxleynew

And just now, with COVID-19, anti-vax thinking in the US will be disastrous if it influences a significant segment of the population.

A new THH conspiracy theory again! A standard corona cold is enough for vaccination! Ready today,can't be avoided by anti-vax'ers...

But I think THH has to follow his master voice and is forced to teach the people to urgently await a fictitious vaccine given by Goddot/"big pharma" at the most decent cost, without any guarantee that it works the next 10 years...

I wait for a vaccine that cures greed!!

Quote from Wyttenbach

Give you a whisky! The mortality is well below 0.1% now confirmed! It's .8% now for the tested positive US cases. But as said there are 20-50x more people that just got it without decent symptoms.

No, the measured mortality rate for all age groups is not 0.8%. It is 5%. You are off by a factor of 6. 130,546 deaths divided by 2,761,145 cases is 5%. It is actually higher because 1.6 million people are infected at this moment and many of them will die.

It could not be "well below 0.1%." That is the extrapolated rate for young people. For people over 40 it is much higher.

Furthermore, many deaths have not been recorded, probably as many as 20% in some states. That pushes the numbers up.

Based on data from Korea and Japan where they have extensive testing and antibody testing, it is not 20 - 50 x. It is more like 2 x. Granted our testing stinks, but still, I have not seen any expert claim the number is 20 to 50. 10x is the highest estimate I have seen. Even if you were right that the rate is 0.08, that is not "well below" 0.1. It is within the margin of error.

Well, the situation in Georgia has gone from bad to worse. See:

https://www.ajc.com/news/coron…d/jvoLBozRtBSVSNQDDAuZxH/

Gov. Nitwit of Georgia says that ordering people to wear masks would be "a bridge too far." He refuses to order it, and his refusal overrides local cities and counties that want to impose masks. Apparently, slaughtering thousands of people and destroying thousands of lives for no reason is not a bridge too far. I don't get it. The city of Savannah has defied the governor and it is ordering the public to wear masks. This sets the stage for a state constitutional "showdown" according the newspapers.

Gov. Cuomo of New York has now included Georgia in the mandatory 2-week quarantine, which is enforced with a fine of up to $20,000. See:

https://www.governor.ny.gov/ne…avelers-arriving-new-york

It does not seem Constitutional to me, but I wouldn't know. The tone is interesting:

E X E C U T I V E O R D E R

QUARANTINE RESTRICTIONS ON TRAVELERS ARRIVING IN NEW YORK

WHEREAS, the State of New York has successfully slowed the transmission of COVID-19;

WHEREAS, the State of New York has gone from having the highest infection rate to one of the lowest in the country and is one of only a few states reported to be on track to contain COVID-19;

WHEREAS, the Governor has undertaken a cautious, incremental and evidence-based approach to reopening the State of New York;

WHEREAS, other states that may have taken a less cautious approach are experiencing an increased prevalence of COVID-19;

WHEREAS, New York must work in conjunction with its neighboring states of New Jersey and Connecticut, in light of the significant risk posed to the health and welfare of all residents by the further spread of COVID-19 to the tristate area, to protect the progress made;

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Andrew M. Cuomo, Governor of the State of New York, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the Laws of the State of New York, in particular Article IV, section one, I do hereby order and direct as follows:

The commissioner of the Department of Health to issue a travel advisory to be communicated widely at all major points of entry into New York, including on highway message boards and in all New York airports, that:

All travelers entering New York from a state with a positive test rate higher than 10 per 100,000 residents, or higher than a 10% test positivity rate, over a seven day rolling average, will be required to quarantine for a period of 14 days consistent with Department of Health regulations for quarantine. . . .

Quote from JedRothwell

Based on data from Korea and Japan where they have extensive testing and antibody testing, it is not 20 - 50 x. It is more like 2 x. Granted our testing stinks, but still, I have not seen any expert claim the number is 20 to 50. 10x is the highest estimate I have seen.

The best "confirmed" figure we have is from Ischgl the Austrian hotspot of the first hour! Mortality was 0.15%. > 30% overall infection rate.

The problem with CoV-19 is that almost all people that have a classic corona immunity do neither show the virus nor anti-bodies. Recent tests did show, without any doubt, that the old anti body got ramped up. Some of them did express tiny traces of CoV-19 anti-bodies. (Currently below sensitivity of standard test!.

The problem with the US data is that they do not keep track with the recovered persons. USA is a big mess or it is intention to show only messy data!

The only risk I see for the US obese people states is their low education in health relevant topics and the widespread, chronic slavery (70 millions poor people !) that leads to a kind of veterinary treatment...

We here have a steep uptick in cases too as I predicted but we were down to nothing. People already do panic with 1 added (above 4 weeks average) patient to hospital. The main problem are clubs where the low brain people usually end up sticking together...