I would ask for whatever the physician's reckoned was likely good
Rudy Gulliani, Mr Mayor talks with physician Zelenko
Zelenko is Hasidic but is he Kosher?
Rudy Gulliani, Mr Mayor talks with physician Zelenko
Zelenko is Hasidic but is he Kosher?
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Zelenko is a family doctor. if I had COVID I'd ask opinion of serious hospital doctors dealing with the disease. References to religion inappropriate for this thread and irrelevant to question IMHO.
Display MoreTHH,
Based some graphs I have seen, the viral clearance rates for both protocols looked pretty good
- especially since HCQ+Az was administered without zinc.
Also, it is interesting that the authors believe extending ivermectin dosing to three days will
accelerate viral clearance.
It's a small, but positive study, and points in the same direction as earlier studies.
I agree viral clearance rates are probably the best you can get from this type of study - but since it depends greatly on severity of disease, amount of initial dose, etc, I can't see these studies as giving much evidence because of the file drawer effect - poor ones will not be published.
Perhaps if we did a literature trawl, selected all studies that had clear prior protocols and endpoints and followed them, looked at all results, averaged viral clearance rates, and compared that would "standard tretament" rates we could systematise this? Some preprint might do that - there are literature trawl preprints around.
if I had COVID I'd ask opinion of serious hospital doctors
So if you asked serious hospital doctors
you would be in hospital..in serious trouble,, oy vey
Zelenko's advice
.. Stay out of the hospital. or don't wait till you are sick enough to be in the hospital.
If you are over sixty Zelenko will treat you ASAP.and SERIOUSLY. with the Zelenko cocktail..seriously and Hasidically
"the emphasis should be put on telling people particularly people that are at risk to watch for these symptoms
and try to get there (to the physician) within the first 5 days
Patients statistically come to the doctor between day four and five simply
because they wait the first few daysand think it's gonna get better
when it doesn't get better in day three
they usually called the doctor and then it takes a day or two to get an appointment
so usually patients present to the doctor's office at day four or five of infection and so that's normal
I would advise patients with Covid symptoms to show up earlier because
the easier it is to clear the virus and but again
the key here and this is for the physicians
you must start treatment when you clinically suspect the patients is at risk
do not wait for the results of the test because if you wait two three days
there's a likelihood that
the patient is gonna be very very sick by the time the results come back
the key is to intervene early in high-risk patients
with a three-drug safe regimen that's cost $20 and is available by mouth
so it's a way to stay out of the hospital .
Glad to see a brave nobel prize winner saying this is a severe flu as we've been saying on this board for a while. It can even be better if we used the treatments we have today.
Unfortunately you can't teach courage so he is one of the few.
For most of humanity, their opinions blow with the wind and the news story of the day --- so as long as the mainstream keeps pumping out "authoritative" messages they will believe 1+1 =3 if this is messaged to them. Aluminum cannot penetrate thick steel columns.
I don't really read it, just look at the photos. Someone has to keep up on the latest celebrity bikini fashions.
Would that be under "Arts"? Asking for a friend.
Here is a 60-something business reporter who had a mild case in April. He thought that was the end of it, but it keeps coming back.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07…-wellness-intl/index.html
I got Covid-19 two months ago. I'm still discovering new areas of damage -- Richard Quest
Business editor-at-large, CNN
The cough has come back, without warning and seemingly for no reason; so has the fatigue. True, neither are as debilitating as when I had the actual virus, but they are back.
Like many others, I am now coming to realize that I am living and suffering from the long tail of Covid-19.
I got infected back in mid-April. The onset of symptoms came quickly. I suddenly noticed I was feeling very tired and I had a new cough. I got tested and the morning after I received a phone call from the medical center, I had tested positive for coronavirus.
The virus is like a tornado. When it lands, it swirls through the body, causing chaos, confusion, coughs, wreaking damage to each organ it touches. . . .
I would ask for whatever the physician's reckoned was likely good:
I agree that listening to a doctor is good. However one MUST be there own advocate. I had significant back issues about 5 years ago. I had good friends who where general surgeons and they recommended I go to a certain orthopedic surgeon. This surgeon had very excellent references and reviews. I had no reason not to follow his advise..... surgery with an 80% chance of fusing two discs.
However, having a little medical background myself (not a doctor but in workman's comp and physical therapy management) I knew it always best to get a second opinion. I went to another highly recommended, highly reviewed surgeon. Looking at the same set of MRI's, he stated "yes, this issue can be corrected". I asked what he thought the odds of needing discs fused and he stated "absolutely zero chance. I would never fuse discs to fix this issue".
These were both respected and highly recommended surgeons, yet their prognosis was vastly different. Majorly different! Of course I went with the second surgeon and am so thankful I got the second opinion. No problems and no fused discs.
So my point is, medicine is not an exact science. They "practice" medicine, trying to get it right! You could go to a doctor and he might very well prescribe HCQ! Would you take it then? Or would you insure that you did not select a doctor that might prescribe HCQ?
One MUST be educated to insure one gets the best treatment. Doctors are not all knowing and not all doctors know all current / best treatments. When it comes to something as "novel" as the "novel corona" virus, I would not rely 100% on a doctor's knowledge. Especially if in an area like mine, where there are only 71 cases in the entire county. No doctor has had much experience in my area.... I better be sure to be involved in my own care.... not playing doctor, but surely educating myself and asking lots of questions. After all, I could have had a fused disc, but thankfully I do not...... why? I was my own advocate.
I noticed you did not say much about any of these other treatments not having RCTs. Such as Remedsivr. Yet I see no cautions about this or other "standard treatments" that do not have RCT's or other significant positive testing. Yet you caution against HCQ , somewhat Ivermectin etc. These are medicines that seem to be vocally supported by those with a "conservative" mind set. Is there any connection with the two in your thinking. Again, no RCT on Remedsivr, yet no often posted warnings about it. Remedsivr is a favorite of another mindset!
Thoughts?
noticed you did not say much about any of these other treatments not having RCTs. Such as Remedsivr. Yet I see no cautions about this or other "standard treatments" that do not have RCT's or other significant positive testing.
Remdesivir has very mild positive RCT evidence, but overall I've seen little evidence. It would be given to severe cases only and it has a lot of side effects, so I'm not a great fan but on the other hand it might, with careful use, do some good.
HCT and Ivermectin have less positive evidence than Remdesivir, AFAIK. Ivermectin just has not been studies, and the evidence from in vitro studies is underwhelming. HCQ has been studies a lot, without the positive evidnce emerging you would hope for. So I'm negative about all three, also not certain about all three.
I agree there is much less negative evidence about HCQ in prophylactic role - that is because AFAIK there is littel evidence at all for that. Following Lou, you might want to look carefully at recovery times with / without it. The trouble is we still have no RCT. I think (maybe wrong) the UK is doing an HCQ prophylatic tretament RCT? If so we will get evidence.
I will argue with doctirs if I think they are ignoring evidence - but not argue for something on basis of observational trials that really prove nothing.
THH
The trouble is we still have no RCT. I
there is unlikely to be an RCT for HCQ +Zn +Azithromycin.. early treatment in the next six months.. in the community setting
1) Zero financial incentive
2) Difficult to do in the community setting
the main reason that Zelenko could do what he did in his community was because he was in charge of the electronic medicaion charting in his dstrict. of NY
AFAIK
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1/download
TX:
Only diagnosed COVID patients with the defined risk stratification requirements
of group A, B, or C got a prescription
for the following triple therapy for 5 consecutive days
in addition to standard supportive care:
zinc sulfate (220 mg capsule once daily,(containing 50 mg elemental zinc )
HCQ (200 mg twice daily),
and azithromycin (500 mg once daily).
No loading dose was used.
Tx group n=141.. UnTx group N=377
agree that listening to a doctor is good. However one MUST be there own advocate.
The saying around here is ......never ask the barber if you need a hair cut.
Display MoreRemdesivir has very mild positive RCT evidence, but overall I've seen little evidence. It would be given to severe cases only and it has a lot of side effects, so I'm not a great fan but on the other hand it might, with careful use, do some good.
HCT and Ivermectin have less positive evidence than Remdesivir, AFAIK. Ivermectin just has not been studies, and the evidence from in vitro studies is underwhelming. HCQ has been studies a lot, without the positive evidnce emerging you would hope for. So I'm negative about all three, also not certain about all three.
I agree there is much less negative evidence about HCQ in prophylactic role - that is because AFAIK there is littel evidence at all for that. Following Lou, you might want to look carefully at recovery times with / without it. The trouble is we still have no RCT. I think (maybe wrong) the UK is doing an HCQ prophylatic tretament RCT? If so we will get evidence.
I will argue with doctirs if I think they are ignoring evidence - but not argue for something on basis of observational trials that really prove nothing.
THH
So if you test positive tomorrow with mild symptoms, and if HCQ, or Ivermectin were available to you, would you take them?
if you test positive tomorrow with mild symptoms, and if HCQ, or Ivermectin were available to you, would you take them?
Physician (Seriously) " Which one? Remdesivir, HCQ +Zn +A.. Ivermectin? All three are available
THHnew (coughing).. Which one has an RCT..?
Physician (wryly) "Can you hang on for 6 months?
Peak Prosperity's latest --
Covid-19: Vindication! HCQ+ & Ivermectin Work!
So if you test positive tomorrow with mild symptoms, and if HCQ, or Ivermectin were available to you, would you take them?
No.
Peak Prosperity's latest --
Ralph Baric? down a rabbit hole of moral and cognitive dissonance..?
Video ~transcript~.. fm Time mark 28.40
"back in 2010 Robert Baric remember that name and other coronavirus researchers
did a study of the potential for zinc and ionophores to block viral replication in vitro and in culture and that's ten years ago
in 2015 Robert Baric and his protege Shi Jing Li from the Wuhan Institute of virality among others published
their creation of a chimeric SARS virus with S protein adapted for greater infectivity and morbidity
Part of the gain-of-function research program
“that group 2b viruses encoding the SHCO14 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple
orthologues of the SARS receptor( human ACE)
to replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains as SARS
“demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis”
so here they are doing chimeric virus monkeying around gain-of-function stuff noted that it worked in vitro in glass and works in vivo that's in whole animals
so they're already doing this stuff back in 2015
how about this stuff
“available SARS based immune therapeutic /and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy” [the meds won't work!]
“we synthetically rederived an infectious full-length recombinant virus and demonstrated robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo
and so they say ..wow this thing could actually be a bad virus if it can get out
so they also did research back then that showed that
zinc and ionophores might be effective at inhibiting replication of RNA viruses
So now that there has been a reemergence of the virus as Covid
so why aren't they out there publicly and vigorously advocating for post-exposure trials of
cheap and available zinc + ionophores( chloroquine.. quercetin.?????
But ..they have been dead quiet the whole time not a peep out of them ..."
Also there is the 2015 patent...
https://patents.justia.com/sea…coronavirus+spike+protein
METHODS AND COMPOSITIONS FOR CHIMERIC CORONAVIRUS SPIKE PROTEINS
Publication number: 20170096455
Abstract: The present invention provides compositions and methods comprising a chimeric coronavirus spike protein.
Filed: March 20, 2015
Applicant: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Inventors: Ralph Baric, Sudhakar Agnihothram, Boyd Yount
the present invention provides a chimeric coronavirus spike protein comprising, in orientation from amino to carboxy terminus: a) a first region comprising a portion of a coronavirus spike protein ectodomain that precedes the receptor binding domain (RBD) as located in a nonchimeric coronavirus spike protein, of a first coronavirus; b) a second region comprising a coronavirus spike protein receptor binding domain (RBD) of a second coronavirus that is different from said first coronavirus; c) a third region comprising a portion of a coronavirus spike protein S1 domain as located in a nonchimeric coronavirus spike protein immediately downstream of the RBD, contiguous with a portion comprising a coronavirus spike protein S2 domain as located immediately upstream of a fusion protein domain in a nonchimeric coronavirus spike protein, wherein said third region is of said first coronavirus; and d) a fourth region comprising a portion of a coronavirus spike protein from the start of the fusion protein domain through the carboxy terminal end as located in a nonchimeric coronavirus spike protein of a third coronavirus that is different from said first coronavirus and said second coronavirus
Good post Robert Bryant,
The extent of the corruption defies belief.
Here is another deep analysis of the coordination between Big Medicine, Big Pharma, Regulators and The Media.
So many interrelationships and coincidences --
LancetGate: “Scientific Corona Lies” and Big Pharma Corruption. Hydroxychloroquine versus Gilead’s Remdesivir
QuoteWhich one? Remdesivir, HCQ +Zn +A.. Ivermectin? All three are available
Definitely Ivermectin: HCQ is bitter, Remdesivir bitterly expensive. Supplementation with zinc and antibiotics would be useful at all cases.
This new preprint indicates that adding ivermectin to the HCQ+Az regimen may improve recovery time --
Effectiveness of Ivermectin as add-on Therapy in COVID-19 Management
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…07.07.20145979v1.full.pdf
Also, perhaps of interest, is this preprint indicating that pneumococcal vaccines may protect against Covid --
Cross-Reactivity Between SARS-CoV-2 Proteins and Proteins in Pneumococcal Vaccines
May Protect Against Symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Disease and Death
Also, perhaps of interest, is this preprint indicating that pneumococcal vaccines may protect against Covid --
Has been done in Japan already more than 3 months ago and was seen as one reason for teh low Japanese infection rate. But it's just cross immunity and will only show up in statistics and overall rates. Corona imnuni8ty to recent colds are close matches and protecting much better.
HCT and Ivermectin have less positive evidence than Remdesivir, AFAIK.
Ivermectin is the only one that helps in severe cases too. There is more than enough evidence from hospital use and only a dilettante does not understand that the in-vitro result isn't by far the best of all tested. May be you simply once try to get a similar result for the Gilead crap remdesdesivir....
But you already did out you as a dilettante when saying: Ivermectin in-vitro results are anecdotal and thus nobody here should,listen to what you try to spread...
Lets sum up: There is absolute no real evidence for Remdesivir tons of evidence for all the others. A fake positive result (for Remdesivir the Gilead crap) has been constructed by a severe manipulation of a running study, what is criminal conduct. HCQ is known to work against corona replication since 2005. China has informed everybody that wanted to listen in January 2020 about HCQ the same time China ordered 3 mio doses from South Korea.
In a few years you can buy books about the criminal, history around cov-19 and hopefully until then some main actors as Fauci are behind iron bars. It looks like THH wants to have his own chapter..
