Quote from THHuxleynew

It is not good politics to change your mind every day.

Who s changing your mind every day???

THH rhetoric never ceases.its outstanding irrelevance

Well, it is silly to say that HCQ is hindered by liberals. In Sweden it is not politisized and still HCQ is not used much. Experts simply do not see a proven benefit and recognizes drawbacks with it. So we have to wait for studies like COPCOV in order to get it in public health care. Personally I see a lot of problems with research with no proper control groups in the study. However if people ask for HCQ I think they should be allowed to have it, as there is nonproven indication in the direction that it can help. Possibly soon this study will finish and we can have a change of recommendations if HCQ is proven to work profylactically.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Why are Ivermectin and Praziquantel banned (or sold at 100x price) in most western countries? This happened exactly when the first chemo therapy made it to market.

Three problems with this theory are: I can’t find any reference to Ivermectin having been banned, just never approved in the first place. The first chemotherapies seems to have arrived on the market around 1950, but ivermectin was discovered in 1975. Research into ivermectin against cancer was first published in 2017.

I did find this article though, which may be of wider interest:

Ivermectin and COVID-19: How a Flawed Database Shaped the Pandemic Response of Several Latin-American Countries

https://www.isglobal.org/en/he…rican-countries/2877257/0

Only skimmed it but surgisphere gets a big mention.

Quote from THHuxleynew

HCQ could only be active against viral infections very early on it is difficult to see how such protocols can work when the RECOVERY protocol, carefully tuned to give as fast as possible high serum levels, did not work.

We answered this now more than three times: "high serum levels" of just HCQ make no sense as the virus obviously adapts to two receptors and HCQ seems to block only one. Thus you need the second anti viral AZT! As said latest day 5 is critical. I hope you understand the difference between HCQ + any unusable and the Roault/Zelenko protocol - HCQ +AZT + Zinc!

Masks: Here some in depth discussion

Large overview to start: https://www.researchgate.net/p…VID-19_An_Evidence_Review

A classic studies summary: https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…03.30.20047217v2.full.pdf

Main weakness of all studies/tests: Short distance (20cm) for measurement low number of persons involved.

Other weaknesses: Studies done under no pandemic - thus controlled - situation. Or most under family situations.

One final result seems to be FP95 and cloth/surgical masks work the same.

Countries wearing masks (>70%) have less death. Could be the only sign that masks work but not a prove.

But what can you do if more than 300 drunk Germans on Mallorca drink arm in arm all night ?? --> shut down all location (today)!

Why always slaughterhouses ?? (Austria again) On the other side cases in Sweden trend to 0 now!! (vacation only?? certainly not the trend is long time!)

Quote from stefan

Well, it is silly to say that HCQ is hindered by liberals.

'hindered by liberals: ? Not in Sweden... Sweden has more reserved silliness than in E pluribus Democraticum

https://www.statnews.com/2020/…e-congress-campaign-2020/

However the word 'liberal' applied to the Democrats is done so liberally at least wrt Trump+HCQ

Quote from Zeus46

Three problems with this theory are: I can’t find any reference to Ivermectin having been banned, just never approved in the first place.

Of course it is not officially banned just not allowed=blocked eg. in Switzerland. In Germany you can buy Praziquantel (Biltricide) at around 150$/dose. In the US you get Ivermectin at the same price. Last time when I did make a review I found about 3 countries in Europe where you can get the drugs. E.g. UK was on the list for Ivermectin may be France too - Germany only for horses what I bought.

Early Praziquantel saves you from most pancreas cancer - very high profit for hospitals.

We all got Praziquantel once a year in school until around 1970.

Quote from Zeus46

The first chemotherapies seems to have arrived on the market around 1950

Chemo was even invented earlier. But real money could be made earliest starting from the late seventies. I very well remember the first cancer treatment of my grand father around (1970) this was still radiation based. 1980 it (Switzerland) was already full chemo based.

Quote from THHuxleynew

remain mistified how so many people here (including you) can be so unable to look without prejudice at data and join the dots

"without prejudice... join the dots"

More THH rhetoric... irrelevant as usual..no back up

'I'm just glad I don't do that."

So how come THH characterises Raoult and Zelensky as saying 'outstanding cure" and " magic bullet"

when NOONE has said that....

Let's all play join the dots in THH mystery play school...

Quote from RobertBryant

Dr Been's advice is still fairly current.. 500-1000 mg daily...

Quercetin

One could try two 500 mg per day..

read the label first..

It does not appear to interfere with warfarin

there is some evidence for other benefits.. atherosclerosis.. hypertension.. no RCT's

http://pennstatehershey.adam.c…tid=107&pid=33&gid=000322

but remember that zinc is needed for the ionophore action

Quote from Alan Smith

2 posts quarantined into clearance. Amazing how popular that thread has become. I guess it's because people like looking at Gennady's stone balls.

Are those anything like the “Schwetty Balls”

From SNL Christmas skit?

Dang that was funny

Let's play Connect the bullet points..

in the global playground

https://www.globalresearch.ca/…narrative-created/5717275

• 1. You stop doctors from using the drug in ways it is most likely to be effective
• 2. You prevent or limit use in outpatients by controlling the supply of the drug,
• 3. You play up the danger of the drug,
• 4. You limit clinical trials to hospitalized patients, instead of testing the drug in outpatients,
• 5. You design clinical trials to give much too high a dose,
• 6. You design clinical trials to collect almost no safety data, so any cause of death due to drug toxicity will be attributed to the disease instead of the drug.
• 7. You issue rules for use of the drug based on the results of the UK Recovery study, which overdosed patients..
• 8. You publish, in the world’s most-read medical journal, the Lancet, an observational study from a huge worldwide database that says use of chloroquine drugs caused significantly increased mortality.

Then 3 European countries announce they will not allow doctors to prescribe the drug.

Then Sanofi announced it would no longer supply the drug for use with Covid, and would halt its two hydroxychloroquine clinical trials, based on the Lancet study.

• 9. Even after hundreds of people renounced the Lancet‘s observational study due to easily identified fabrications–the database used in the study did not exist,

and the claimed numbers did not agree with known numbers of cases–the Lancet held firm for two weeks, serving to muddy the waters about the trial, until finally 3 of its 4 coauthors (but not the journal)

retracted the study. You make sure very few media report that the data were fabricated and the “study” was fraudulent. You let people believe the original story: that hydroxychloroquine routinely kills.Remdesivir for Covid-19: $1.6 Billion for a “Modestly Beneficial” Drug?10. You ensure federal agencies like FDA and CDC hew to your desired policies. Another example: you have FDA make unsubstantiated and false claims, such as: “Hospitalized patients were likely to have greater prospect of benefit (compared to ambulatory patients with mild illness)“

and claim the chloroquine drugs have a slow onset of action.

• 11. You make sure to avoid funding/encouraging clinical trials that test drug combinations like hydroxychloroquine with zinc, with azithromycin, or with both,
• 12. You have federal and UN agencies make false, illogical claims based on models rather than human data.
• 13. You create an NIH Guidelines committee for Covid treatment recommendations, in which 16 members have or had financial entanglements with Gilead,
• 14. You frighten doctors so they don’t prescribe hydroxychloroquine, because prescribing outside the new NIH “standard of care” leaves them open to malpractice lawsuits.
• 15. You manage to control the conduct of most trials around the world by specially designing the WHO-managed Solidarity trials, currently conducted in 35 countries. WHO halted hydroxychloroquine clinical trials around the world, twice. You stop the trial before the data safety monitoring board has looked at your data, a move that is unlikely to be consistent with trial protocol. WHO’s trial in over 400 hospitals overdosed patients with 2.0 g hydroxychloroquine in the first 24 hours. The trial was halted days after the toxic doses were exposed (by me). The trial involved doctors around the world typing minimal patient information into an online WHO platform, which assigned the patient a treatment. The only “safety” information collected during the trial was whether patients required oxygen, a ventilator, or died. This hid side effects of every drug tested. Given a study so designed by WHO, what do you think the likelihood is that WHO correctly randomized subjects, and honestly analyzed the data? I should mention that WHO’s initial plan for its Solidarity trial entirely omitted the chloroquine drugs, but they were added at the urging of participating nations. WHO’s fallback position appears to have been to use toxic doses.
• 16. You have the WHO pressure governments to stop doctors prescribing hydroxychloroquine.
• 17. You have the WHO pressure professional societies to stop doctors prescribing hydroxychloroquine.
• 18. You make sure that the most-consulted US medical encyclopedia, UptoDate, provides bad guidance to physicians, advising them to restrict hydroxychloroquine to only patients in clinical trials, citing the above sources of information.

• 19. You have the head of the Coronavirus Task Force, Dr. Tony Fauci, insist the drug cannot be used in the absence of strong evidence…while he insisted exactly the opposite in the case of the MERS coronavirus outbreak several years ago, when he recommended an untested drug combination for use…
• 20. You convince the population that the crisis will be long-lasting. You have the 2nd richest man in the world, and biggest funder of the WHO, Bill Gates, keep repeating to the media megaphone that we cannot go back to normal until everyone has been vaccinated or there is a perfect drug. (The Gates Foundation helped design the WHO clinical trials, and Gates is heavily invested in pharmaceuticals and vaccines.)
• 21. You have CDC (with help from FDA) prevent the purchase of coronavirus test kits from Germany, China, WHO, etc, and fail to produce a valid test kit themselves. The result was that during January and February, US cases could not be reliably identified, and for several months thereafter insufficient and unreliable test kits made it impossible to track the epidemic and stop the spread.
• 22. You have trusted medical spokesmen lie to the public about the pandemic’s severity, so precautions weren’t taken when they might have been more effective and less long-lasting.
• Dr. Fauci told USA Today on February 17 that Americans should worry more about the flu than about coronavirus, the danger of which was “just miniscule.” Then on February 28, Drs. Fauci and Robert Redfield (CDC Director) wrote in the New England Journal:
  • “…the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.”
• 23. You destroy the reputation of physicians with credibility who stand in your way

Ivermectin update from Rajters

publication imminent. who knows?

https://www.reddit.com/r/iverm…view_with_drs_jeanjaques/

Ivermectin Cost $10-20

Remdesevir.... Cost ..$5700 ?

cooperative effort of 20-40 institutions needed for RCT.. (BigPharma- free)

time = death

contact [email protected]

Bad news for vaccines, good news for anti-virals

Common FDA-approved drug may effectively neutralize virus that causes COVID-19

-"Ultimately, we want a vaccine, but there are many ways to combat a virus, and as we've seen

with HIV, with the right combination of therapies, we can control the disease until a vaccine

is found." ... researchers found that heparin bound to the trimeric SARS-CoV-2 spike protein

at 73 picomoles, a measure of the interaction between the two molecules..."That's exceptional,

extremely tight binding,...It's hundreds of thousands of times tighter than a typical antibody

antigen. Once it binds, it's not going to come off."

https://medicalxpress.com/news…fectively-neutralize.html

Cholesterol-lowering meds have potential to downgrade COVID-19's threat to that of the common cold

-In lab studies, the cholesterol-lowering drug Fenofibrate (Tricor) showed extremely promising

results. By allowing lung cells to burn more fat, fenofibrate breaks the virus' grip on these

cells, and prevents SARS CoV-2's ability to reproduce. In fact, within only five days of treatment,

the virus almost completely disappeared.... studies suggest that vaccines may only protect patients

for a few months. Therefore, blocking the virus' ability to function, rather than neutralizing its

ability to strike in the first place, may be the key to turning the tables on COVID-19. "If our

findings are borne out by clinical studies, this course of treatment could potentially downgrade

COVID-19's severity into nothing worse than a common cold,"

https://medicalxpress.com/news…ial-downgrade-covid-.html

The Great Covid-19 Deception

https://www.unz.com/article/th…-need-to-know-to-survive/

COVID-19 Patient Management with Dr. Paul Marik (Author of MATH+ Protocol)

- discusses HCQ, quercetin, zinc, corticosteroids ...

- blames politics for causing many thousands of unnecessary deaths

MATH+ Protocol Synopsis

https://www.evms.edu/covid-19/covid_care_for_clinicians/

How a False Hydroxychloroquine Narrative Was Created - Zelenko Interview

https://articles.mercola.com/s…uine-for-coronavirus.aspx

Wow - conspiracy theorists of the world unite! The Gates vaccine-pushers are out to get you! And I, .... , well I am a paid stooge of my communist liberal elite friends who want the pandemic for their own evil ends, and am waging infowars on this thread posting stuff I know is false because LENR is a key opinion-setter! I think not.

Yes, it is as batty as it sounds: this thread seems to have been taken over by antivaxers.

Re Heparin:

it is well worth watching - although medicalexpress is not a reliable source there are a lot of heparin preprints now. As you know personally I'm a fan of blood thinners as a good bet to reduce mortality for the obvious reason that COVID induces clotting throughout the body.

(1) utility mitigating cytokine storm

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2020.04.28.20082552v2

(2) antiviral - or at least spike inhibitor, which comes to the same thing I guess. The problem here is that in vitro activity does not translate to in vivo. It is an indication well worth checking, as with HCQ (a good bet on in vitro evidence) or Ivermectin (more dubious when you look at the IC50 serum levels required, but still worth exploring).

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.28.066761v1

In fact they say Enoxaparin also does this, another anticoagulant.

As with HCQ, we have possible multiple reasons for efficacy. The anti-coagulant reason seems a good deal stronger, it has been observed elsewhere and is clear, than HCQs imune response modulation which exists but is unclear in effects.

Detailed info on the nebularised heparin trial (delivery to lungs seems to have minimal side effects)

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…04.28.20082552v2.full.pdf

Re Fenofibrate

Best non-tech reporting I've found: https://www.timesofisrael.com/…ld-level-jerusalem-study/

Paper (you need to register, but its free)

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3650499

Viruses are efficient metabolic engineers that actively rewire host metabolic pathways to support their lifecycle. Charting SARS-CoV-2 induced metabolic changes in lung cells could offer insight into COVID-19 pathogenesis while presenting new therapeutic targets. Here we show that the transcriptional response SARS-CoV-2 in primary lung epithelial cells and biopsies of COVID-19 patients is predominantly metabolic. This transcriptional signature was dominated by changes to lipid metabolism and the induction of IRE1 and PKR pathways of endoplasmic stress in a process regulated by several viral proteins. Transcriptional regulatory analysis of these changes reveals small clusters of transcription factors modulating key enzymes in each pathway. The upregulation of glycolysis and the dysregulation of the citric acid cycle was mediated by NFκB and RELA. While the upregulation of fatty acid and cholesterol synthesis showed a more complex control conditionally modulated by ER-stress activated PPARγ, C/EBP, and PPARα. Viral protein ORF3a appeared to interact with all three pathways suggesting both direct and indirect modulation of host metabolism. Finally, we show that PPARα-agonist fenofibrate reversed the metabolic changes induced by SARS-CoV-2 blocking viral replication. Taken together, our data suggest that elevated lipid metabolism may underlie aspects of COVID-19 pathogenesis, offering new therapeutic avenues in targeting this critical pathway on which the virus relies.

To validate these metabolic targets, we treated SARS-CoV-2 infected lung cells with drugs
that target lipid, glucose, and mitochondrial metabolism (Fig. 4C-F). GW9662 a small
molecule inhibitor of PPAR blocked neutral and phospholipid accumulation (p<0.01) and
reduced viral load by 2-folds, but also affected cell viability (Fig. 4D-E; Supplement Fig. S3).
Cloperastine (Hustazol®) recently identified as an SGLT1 inhibitor (Burggraaff et al., 2019),
also reduced viral load by 3-fold (p<0.01) but without affecting cell viability (Supplement
Fig. S3). In contrast, the PPAR agonist fenofibrate (Tricor®) blocked phospholipid
accumulation (p<0.001) and as well as the increase in glycolysis (Fig. 4D-E). A 5-day
treatment with fenofibrate reduced viral load by 2-logs (p<0.001) without affecting cell
viability (Fig. 4F, Supplement Fig. S3). These results suggest that lipid metabolism is an
important pathway for SARS-CoV-2 replication and a promising therapeutic target.

And the important details of in vitro response

Quantification of SARS-CoV-2
virion particles over 5 days of treatment with various drugs or DMSO (vehicle). Treatment
with 20 µM fenofibrate reduced SARS-CoV-2 viral load by 2-logs close to the detection limit
of the assay (n=3; p<0.001). Treatment with 10 µM GW992 or 10 µM cloperastine reduced
viral load by 2.5 to 3-fold (n=3; p<0.05)

It took a while to find that source paper, but it is a decent quality one, actually a preview of a real journal paper.

So the first step in evaluating this is to relate the concentrations used here to those from safety studies of these drugs. They do not mention that. here is a test of Fenofibrate on patients looking at how it changed lipid metabolism shows measured blood plasma up to about 14uM and was described as well tolerated. So that looks promising.

It does not claim what the popularisations do, and is a lot more cautious. Still, this is as they say a new avenue to investigate for how COVID does its nasty work, and it is possible that Fenofibrate will be effective. certainly worth clinical trials given its safety profile is well understood (and positive for a range of people at risk of cardiac events). One to watch. There does not yet seem to be any clinical trial info - maybe this is a good candidate to add to RECOVERY for quick results? Though the COVID infection rate in the UK is a bit low now for quick answers from that. It is quite a long road from promising in vitro data from a repurposed drug to getting decent RCT evidence on its use as a therapy.

Quote from THHuxleynew

this thread seems to have been taken over by antivaxer

based on what? THH bias? more empty rhetoric 'batty as it sounds"

Quote from THHuxleynew

or Ivermectin (more dubious when you look at the IC50 serum levels required, but still worth exploring).

Our conspiracy spin doctor repeats his marginal understanding really? No THH is part of it (the conspiracy) - no doubt only blind people could deny it.

https://www.trialsitenews.com/…age-of-just-under-6-days/

The reason why it works:

https://chemrxiv.org/ndownloader/files/23757572

The same holds for Heparin.

There will certainly be a flash back for big Pharma if they go on the same way: Lancet is aleady dead after the HCQ scandal publication of a big pharma payed fake study. The Public now rates Lancet way below US today or an FOX press paper...

Quote from RobertBryant

Quercetin

One could try two 500 mg per day..

read the label first..

It does not appear to interfere with warfarin

there is some evidence for other benefits.. atherosclerosis.. hypertension.. no RCT's

http://pennstatehershey.adam.c…tid=107&pid=33&gid=000322

but remember that zinc is needed for the ionophore action

Display More

Thank you RB. I will read up on it. It appears readily available (at least for now!)

It is amazing how much "anti-covid solution" is out there! This does seem peculiar!

Per Web-MD :

"Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): Quercetin may have benefit for some airway infections, but there is no good evidence to support using it for COVID-19. Follow healthy lifestyle choices and proven prevention methods instead."

So here it states that Quercetin "may have benefit for some airway infections", of which Covid certainly is. Yet concerning Covid, it goes on to actually state "Follow healthy lifestyle choices and PROVEN methods instead"! I.E. Do not use it! Well there are NO proven methods. Again, no down side (very little side affects), yet DO NOT TAKE!. Use proven methods? There are none!

This is simply crazy! I will not be surprised if this becomes "unavailable" soon as well. The conspiracy theorist in me ( ) thinks it will only become unavailable if it actually works! If it does not work it supports the "agenda", if it works then it will be banned!

There is at least one study (although so small I am unsure of it's usefulness). It is supposed to finish on July 31. It will be interesting to see if it is actually reported on!

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04377789

Japan seems to be having a second wave.

https://covid19japan.com/

Why they are not taking steps to stop it I cannot say. It seems crazy to me. The government is doing the opposite of what it should do. They are promoting "travel within Japan" this month, with subsidies for train tickets and hotels. Double crazy!

Here in Georgia, Gov. Nitwit has made it official. He wants to kill and disable people in the service of lunatic right wing ideology. Through the Looking Glass we go, from nutty to nuttier. See:

https://www.ajc.com/politics/p…DMOPL2CNCCVBQRDGTIIF2AX4/

Kemp’s ban of mask mandates puts Georgia on collision course with its cities

People need a fundamental understanding of chemistry and real medicine! This is an information age survival skill whether Dr. or not. That said wikipedia editors aren't foolproof so they can disparage people and theories that don't deserve the negative press. Wear a mask in public not just for yourself but for others! What do you guys think about this? Dr Rashid Buttar is going around saying masks are toxic and other "facts" that contradict lowest common denominator science, sad 😕. There isn't anything wrong with checking conspiracies, just hope guys like him wised up 😂.

Quote from Bob#2

So here it states that Quercetin "may have benefit for some airway infections", of which Covid certainly is. Yet concerning Covid, it goes on to actually state "Follow healthy lifestyle choices and PROVEN methods instead"! I.E. Do not use it! Well there are NO proven methods. Again, no down side (very little side affects), yet DO NOT TAKE!. Use proven methods? There are none!

This is simply crazy! I will not be surprised if this becomes "unavailable" soon as well. The conspiracy theorist in me ( ) thinks it will only become unavailable if it actually works! If it does not work it supports the "agenda", if it works then it will be banned!

Bob - it is not crazy because there are 100s of chemicals that "may have some benefit". Quercetin is certainly one, and somone in Canada was trying to do a trial using it but I think ran out of patients. The point is that none of these things are likely to actually work and they all have (some) possible side effects etc. And "working" for any of tehse drugs is likely to be some small benefit rather than completely knocking out the virus. The ones that are active may turn out to be active in a way that makes COVID worse - we can't tell. So doctors generally reckon stuffing yourself full of cocktails of drugs is unhelpful.

There is no conspiracy amongst doctors to stop anti-viral agents. Just it is not easy to find them.