Covid-19 News

Quote from RobertBryant

I am not interested in rhetorical argument which has a "recipe for cheating"

Quote from RobertBryant

THH ... I cannot follow your contorted and inaccurate logic... which reply.. to who ... and where

where did I state "I do not accept the CFR comparison does not work?"

RB - do you do this stuff on purpose? It annoys the hell out of me, not sure about anyone else here.

1. You posted rubbish.

2. I said why it was rubbish, politer than I am now , with exact reasons.

3. You made a snide comment about my post without retracting your apparent support for the rubbish.

You did not state, anywhere, that you now agree you posted rubbish. Or, perhaps, that you knew it was rubbish all along but were just testing us. Posting it as something obviously and laughably wrong. In fact you implied, by objecting to my post, that you still thought your post was not rubbish. Maybe this is just an advanced "what does RB mean" test for all of us? If so I obviously failed it.

Now you come back and demand I tell you where you said you did not accept the CFR comparison is rubbish?

Just saying, you are up to a triple negative now, but you have still not agreed with me that the CFR comparison you posted in support of HCQ was misleading rubbish. Was it or wasn't it?

Which reply THH

"Where did I state "I do not accept the CFR comparison does not work?"

Please direct me.. to my reply to what? Link please..

Thanks RB - I see up above you have now agreed with me that the CFR comparison graph was misleading and therefore should never have been posted.

That is all I wanted. Simple really.

Country by country comparisons are not necessarily flawed. But CFR comparisons are, unless you make a lot of adjustments.

THH wrote"

"For example in your reply here you do not accept that the CFR comparison does not work

"

Which reply THH?

"Where did I state "I do not accept the CFR comparison does not work?"

Please direct me.. to my reply to what? Link please..

I think you have contorted and false logic in this instance and are making it up...

Quote from Alan Smith

Don#t get too excited chaps.

I might fall off my armchair ..or i might not not fall off my armchair..

I'm not that excited, just don't like posters who are so disingenuous that they are effectively lying:

Case in point. RB knows full well the CFR comparison was rubbish. But he can't say it! Instead he keeps on accusing me of having:

contorted and false logic

attention-seeking argumentation

rhetorical argument.

It beats me, but if anyone else can understand him I'll shut up and let them continue the dialog.

perhaps THH is striving to contort the former chart..

I don't know because he still hasn't given the link...

perhaps THH cannot figure out from the context Covid-19 (WuFlu) News

and the words "maybe" and 'confounding variables" that I am not 100% convinced for political or other reasons ( to quote THH)

of the relationship posted... for that matter neither is 'gummi bear'

but it is interesting.. Canada at 8% sort of fits into the red.

"God defend NZ" because their splendid isolation is not gonna last for long... perhaps they will emulate Costa Rica.. with early HCQ for all..

Note THH .. please read the context. and do not contort with double negatives.

Quote from THHuxleynew

If I select one, then every negative result not identical will be viewed as discountable because wrong, every positive result not identical will be viewed as evidence.

Quote from THHuxleynew

B - the thing is I don't misdirect, whereas you do.

THH is a well know group pushed spin-doctor that knows all elaborate forms to present lies. THH so far always did select the best and deadliest HCQ trial organized by the world wide organized mafia steered WHO that did promote lethal HCQ only dose to promote his claims.

Even a child can see that deaths/millions is also very well correlated with most countries in the statistics/picture discussed except Japan that did early use Ivermectin Avigan and some other drugs.

Why then does THH fight facts? May be he likes the role of the punch.

But please Robert show mercy with our member that has to payback his depth in form of spin. In case of being a member of FRJ it is a pain as their first task is always to comprise you and make you dependent and willing to follow. I know many dead souls that themselves still believe to be important - but in reality are abulic soldiers of the dark.

Edit. We all know THH is a true gentleman, and does not "lie". Lets keep it respectful. Shane

Quote from Wyttenbach

But please Robert show mercy

Quote from THHuxleynew

It beats me, but if anyone else can understand him I'll shut up and let them continue the dialog.

I guess THH has not not shut up?

Mercy is from above.. dropping as the gentle rain as Portia said..

"“Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; mercy and truth go before Your face.” Psalm 89:14."

Face-to-face Sunday service in NSW has resumed today... No more Zoom for the the time being..

but the Australian (nonHCQ) CFR is starting to rise .. 118/11400 = 1%... She'll be right maybe...or maybe not

God have Mercy on OZ..

Quote from Shane D.

How the US experts lost the confidence of the public:

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020…ve-lost-credibility-14915

I agree with much of this, but this is unfair:

Over time, however, “flatten the curve” took on a new meaning. Instead of slowing the spread of the disease – to decrease the burden on overloaded hospitals and buy time for the development of drugs or vaccines – the goal became to stop disease transmission entirely. This is a ludicrous goal because – like stopping the spread of the common cold or influenza – it is nearly impossible.

1. Flatten the curve was alway presented as a way to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system. That is the main point of it. If the pandemic lasts long enough, the same number of people will be infected, just spread out over time.

2. It is not the least bit ludicrous. Every other first-world country has stopped the pandemic.

This is not true:

Many of the same experts who endorsed strict lockdowns in order to “stay home, stay safe” then endorsed anti-racism protests in which thousands of individuals crammed together on city streets.

I doubt they were the same experts, but in any case, the experts, the leaders of peaceful marches, and participants such as Mitt Romney all emphasized the importance of social distancing and wearing masks. In all of the marches I saw in photos people were a good distance apart (as was Romney) and they were all wearing masks. They were not "crammed together."

The Trump administration is trying to eliminate federal support for testing and contact tracing. See:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0…rld/coronavirus-news.html

The White House pushes to eliminate billions from a relief proposal drafted by Senate Republicans.

The Trump administration has objected to the inclusion of billions of dollars for coronavirus testing and tracing across the country in an opening draft proposal from Senate Republicans for the next coronavirus relief package, further complicating efforts to reach an agreement on the legislation.

The draft suggested allocating $25 billion to states for testing and contact tracing, as well as almost $10 billion to shore up the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and $15 billion to bolster the National Institutes of Health, according to a person familiar with the tentative plans, who cautioned that the final dollar figures remained in flux.

The administration has instead pushed to eliminate all of those funds and has also called for cutting billions of dollars set aside for the Pentagon and the State Department to help counter the outbreak and potentially distribute a vaccine at home and abroad.

The suggestions from the administration, according to two people familiar with the proposals, included funding priorities unrelated to the spread of the coronavirus, including the contentious effort to construct a new building for the F.B.I. The people asked for anonymity to disclose private details of the talks, which were first reported by The Washington Post. . . .

Trump is fundamentally opposed to testing. Here is a quote from his recent press conference:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/bri…-press-conference-071420/

"And, frankly, if we didn’t test, you wouldn’t have all the headlines because we’re showing cases. And we have just about the lowest mortality rate. But if we did — think of this: If we didn’t do testing — instead of testing over 40 million people, if we did half the testing, we would have half the cases. If we did another — you cut that in half, we would have, yet again, half of that."

By that logic, if we eliminate testing completely, with zero testing, the problem will go away. We will have no cases at all.

He goes on to give a lukewarm endorsement of testing, which he then takes back in the next sentence, again saying "the cases are created because of the fact that we do tremendous testing:"

"But the headlines are always testing. Now, the testing is a good thing, but at the same time, it’s — it’s fodder for the fake news to report cases. So we’re doing 40 million-plus, going to be very close to 45 million people. And when I turn on the news, I see, 'cases, cases, cases.' They don’t talk about deaths being cut down to a level that — actually, 'tenfold,' they use. I got that from one of the very respected media outlets — 'Tenfold.' Cut tenfold. Yes, but they don’t talk about that; they talk about cases. And the cases are created because of the fact that we do tremendous testing. We have the best testing in the world."

(It is unclear to me what "tenfold" refers to. It isn't deaths per case. That number has declined, but not tenfold. It has declined because young people have increased as a percent of total patients, and because therapy has improved.)

Quote from JedRothwell

Trump said: "if we did half the testing, we would have half the cases. If we did another — you cut that in half, we would have, yet again, half of that."

Sharp-eyed science geeks -- such as the people here -- may have noticed a problem with this technique. Other metrics also show that cases are increasing. Especially, deaths and the number of people in hospitals. We can fix that! We can do the same sort of thing as stopping the tests.

Here in Georgia we have pioneered a method of reducing deaths: hide the bodies. Lie about how many people have died. A nursing home that has lost a dozen patients will say everything is hunky dory and those people decided to go to Florida. Another nursing home (in New Jersey I think it was) literally hid the bodies, until pesky relatives starting asking questions.

The number of hospital cases can be cut to zero easily. Just close the hospitals. Okay, people will complain, but the problem is already solving itself. Hospitals are full in parts of Florida and other states. Critically ill patients are being left on gurneys for an hour or more without treatment. The total number of patients is self limiting, since we will run out of beds, doctors and nurses. After that, there will be no increase in hospitalizations. Problem solved!

Quote from JedRothwell

Sharp-eyed science geeks -- such as the people here -- may have noticed a problem with this technique. Other metrics also show that cases are increasing. Especially, deaths and the number of people in hospitals. We can fix that! We can do the same sort of thing as stopping the tests.

Here in Georgia we have pioneered a method of reducing deaths: hide the bodies. Lie about how many people have died. A nursing home that has lost a dozen patients will say everything is hunky dory and those people decided to go to Florida. Another nursing home (in New Jersey I think it was) literally hid the bodies, until pesky relatives starting asking questions.

The number of hospital cases can be cut to zero easily. Just close the hospitals. Okay, people will complain, but the problem is already solving itself. Hospitals are full in parts of Florida and other states. Critically ill patients are being left on gurneys for an hour or more without treatment. The total number of patients is self limiting, since we will run out of beds, doctors and nurses. After that, there will be no increase in hospitalizations. Problem solved!

Yes. I actually sort-of agree with Trump here however. Testing US-style does no good, and is PR disaster for Trump, when infections so outstrip test capacity that most results come in 7 days after the test. Useless. (I guess some states with low infection rates and decent testing are OK? I'm not sure).

The problem is that ever-increasing infection rate, and the stress it puts on health care. No amount of spin can change that. The US is a fascinating (and horrifying) lab experiment for what happens if you don't try seriously to control the epidemic and hope other factors - pre-existing immunity or whatever - will limit the overall death toll.

Remember for context that the US deaths per million stand at now 430 below the "bad COVID" part of the EU and well below the UK (667). Those who hope it will all go away reckon another 250 per million deaths is OK, and the projections are for deaths go up to UK levels and no more by November under universal mask use. Beyond that which of the politicians care?

In addition, the US infection rate in many places is now so high it is pretty difficult to implement effective track and trace.

Unfortunately, before Jed jumps on me, I do not much agree. Many places are stretched now. The US population, encouraged by Trump, seems highly resistant to wearing masks or indeed doing anything to discourage spread. The infection rate goes up steadily, looking very nasty, and death rate will follow.

Maybe those advocating this policy hope they will be rescued by a very fast - maybe not safe but who cares - vaccine? I can't understand why the White House is not pulling out all stops to maximise the chances of this, which means pushing for Challenge Trials now.

It is a nice dream. Fast vaccine advocates tend I think to ignore the logistic difficulties in manufacturing and distributing a vaccine to the whole population. But if we did get one by say October (the Oxford vaccine which if it works will be available by then) it could be used selectively in the hotspots.

My guess is that the US will have some early vaccines, maybe not very good ones, and maybe which cause issues with a few who are unlucky. The antivaxers will view this not a price worth paying. The vaccine enthusiasts will agree because of the enormous damage that nasty untested vaccine-related problems would cause for all future use of vaccines. Everyone else would probably think that 0.01% vaccine deaths can be traded against 0.05% (500/million) COVID deaths and the opening up of the economy that comprehensive vaccination would allow with an effective enough vaccine. Except that in the US it seems 40% of the population are anti-science and would refuse a vaccine anyway? At 60% takeup you do not eradicate the disease, but make it much more manageable with limited other measures.

The UK is in as bad a position as the US. Very mixed messages from government about masks, isolation, etc mean much less compliance from population that you'd want. Track and trace not working.

Quote from JedRothwell

Sharp-eyed science geeks -- such as the people here -- may have noticed a problem with this technique. Other metrics also show that cases are increasing. Especially, deaths and the number of people in hospitals. We can fix that! We can do the same sort of thing as stopping the tests.

In fact the US medical mafia just tests to make money. Any result/processing that takes more than two days is ridiculous and I would not pay for it.

In addition the US health mafia (FR) prevents any successful treatment the same holds for Canada.

It's enough to just test people with clear symptoms. But also to give them ASAP a medication. Some testing for statistical purposes is OK too.

But if only 2% of all test show an infection then you will end up with testing everybody at least 10 times.

Some Japanese doctor believe CoV-19 has now been degraded to mild flue due to the successful treatment of extremely ill patients.

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.…0.1186/s13054-020-03078-z

But US citizens that with free will did chose to be ruled by the FRJ mafia will at the end certainly be the most affected victims.

Trump just launched the first state terror attack in Portland (Oregon). Anonymous troops are arresting people. That's how the mafia works.

Only missing compared to China where the troops did wear a banner with: "The Chinese (US) people do like the self defense troops..)

I just ordered a supply of Quercetin. I have been taking Zinc and will start Vitamin D. All for prophylaxis treatment. Vitamin D is a no brainer. While some have said Zinc is not needed due to plenty in a regular diet, I have not had blood work specifically testing that. AND as with many things, there are ranges of levels considered "normal". I want to be on the high side, so I will take a Zinc supplement. Recognizing one can over dose, I believe it better to be on the high side of normal or a little over none the less.

My readings on Quercetin indicate it worth taking. No likely dangerous side effects, enough potential that studies are underway and significant observational evidence by valid medical physicians. It is so low priced that cost is not even a consideration.

I will start this self prescribed treatment as Monday as that is when the Quercetin is due to arrive.

I have now had my first encounter with a known Covid case. I have had to interact with an elderly gentleman who was released from the hospital 5 days ago after being tested positive and treated for Covid. HIs wife also in the hospital at the same time, unfortunately did not make it and passed away. Very hard time for him for sure! Both in their early 80's.

He seems to being doing well, but one does not know his infectious status. I am taking physical precautions such as mask, distancing as much as possible, etc. but will still have some contact with him. He stated the hospital gave him clearance, but I am suspicious. Not that he is lying, but either the hospital may not really know his status or he many not be understanding what he was told. He has no apparent symptoms at present. Life must go on and while I do as much as possible remotely, some closer contact is required.

Interesting times!

Quote from sam12

Shane
I did not know there was a buyer

beware thread.

I debated posting but since there

is no cure for CV I thought I should

post it.Just in case someone with CV

wanted to give it a shot.

BTW some of there claims about

Product are laughable.

But I still think there could be something to there product.

Display More

There is no cure for “Ecatitis” either and ALL of Rossi’s claims are laughable, so I just considered the source and smiled.

Figured somebody would bring my

views on Rossi here when I posted

Well at least I am right about something.

Quote from Alan Smith

I have been taking 1000mg of Quercetin a day for around 2 months

At church yesterday... I talked to Yuki-san a young mother with two small children and in her third trimester of pregnaancy..

I am sure that few of the members on this forum are at risk of pregnancy

but we may have some interest via social connections,,

the CDC has finally made a pronouncement about the relevant Covid risk

"https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/special-populations/pregnancy-data-on-covid-19.html"

apparently there is evidence that pregnancy confers a greater risk of hospitalisation due to Covid..

Anyway .. Yuki- san has been taking VitD3 + quercetin + a few others for several months

She found it hard to swallow the big brown Q pill.

I suggested to her to grind it in a coffee grinder and mix it up with milk.. which is what I do.

The fat in th e milk will help a little with the absorption of quercetin which is fatsolublle... and is otherwise very poorly absorbed thru the gut.

Much of the Q ends up in the sewer.

there are of course ... lipid.. emulsified preps which are more expensive.

NO RCT yet. Chretien in Montreal has $1 million .. for a trial..since February . anyone know what' s up with that?

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecu…vid-19-in-china-1.5480134

I was looking at the price of bulk Q online it seems failry cheap.. ``1$/gm or 60c per 600 mg

https://purebulk.com/products/…re?variant=14294886973489.

Q use is based on poor evidence.. but it doesn't cost much..