Covid-19 News

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Fascinating interview.


    As he says, we still don't know. Looking back Sweden's realistic (not denying the science) but light touch method may prove optimal. A shame the US cannot unite around a policy like this, but while half of the population deny COVID is real that is difficult.


    THH

    Careful translating between countries and different social structures. I suspect masks is needed in USA as I suspect people will go to work although having milder symptoms. I do however not know the statistics so maybe not but still one need to be careful.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Fascinating interview.


    As he says, we still don't know. Looking back Sweden's realistic (not denying the science) but light touch method may prove optimal. A shame the US cannot unite around a policy like this, but while half of the population deny COVID is real that is difficult.


    THH

    Yes Tegnell is very interesting to listen to. Lot's of science behind his point of view. You may not end up agreeing but still agreeing that it is a hard choices that have to be taken. Also he avoids politizising and are very kind to opponents view e.g. often agree that there is things pointing their way and then lift up other research that points in other direction and avoid trying to run over people and really avoids the baits from journalists that try to make a conflict. Unfourtunately he is often misrepresented be media and there is a fashion that goes back and forth between worshipping and throwing him to the tigers. Also lot's of trolls out there that want to divide Swedish people. He indeed is a good knowledgable science guy in an awful society in many ways. He do have been wrong in some of his estimates but this is his work, to guess as good as possible.

    Trial Site News' latest video includes an ivermectin update --


    Clinical Trials and Research News Weekly Roundup | Dr. Tarek Alam’s Ivermectin Working

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    https://www.trialsitenews.com/…vermectin-working-s2-e30/


    Also, an interesting paper giving an overview of repurposed drugs --

    Pharmacotherapy of COVID-19: confine to existential drugs or search for new ones?

    https://www.researchgate.net/p…r-search-for-new-ones.pdf


    Another new video that may be of interest --

    Managing Coronavirus from Home- Zinc, Quercetin, N-acetylcysteine, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Melatonin

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    Quote from RobertBryant

    Probably because of rapidity .. viral prophylactic is much more effective than a posthoc med.

    Another sophisticated analysis of the NEJM published Boulware " no HCQ benefit' internet trial

    finds that Boulware's statistical analysis ignored the time dependency.

    Maybe Boulware should have taken the time to get a second opinion from another statisitician?

    "

    We conclude their randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial presents statistical
    evidence, at 99% confidence level, that the treatment of Covid-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine is
    effective in reducing the appearance of symptoms if used before or right after exposure to the virus.

    For0 to 2 days after exposure to virus, the estimated relative reduction in symptomatic outcomes is

    72% after 0 days, 48.9% after 1 day and 29.3% after 2 days. ..

    4 or more days after

    exposure there is no statistical evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective in reducing the
    appearance of symptoms.
    Our results show that the time elapsed between infection and the beginning of treatment is
    crucial for the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment to Covid-19

    Marcai Watanabe de Souza also states

    "Should be done with Zinc?"

    and

    "

    We expect the treatment will be more effective when applied to patients in the viral replication period, before viral load reaches its peak
    which occurs around 5 days after symptom onset.6 Meanwhile,

    if disease reaches the inflammatory period, typically after 8 days of symptoms onset and after viral load reaches its peak,

    we can expected no or little benefit with the antiviral treatment.


    Dr. Stella Immanuel talks about her experience treating COVID-19 patients with HCQ+Zn +A

    WashingtonDC..

    I have the transcript.. just in case..

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    Quote from Shane D.

    1. Show where he "advocated" HCQ's use.

    See, for example:


    https://www.statnews.com/2020/…xychloroquine-fact-check/


    Quote from Shane D.

    2. Most masks are being used inappropriately, or are not the quality needed, so they do have a "marginal effect". That is a well known fact.

    Any safety device when improperly used can have a marginal effect, or no effect. If you let the batteries go flat in a smoke detector it does not work.


    Quote from Shane D.

    3. I dispute that about his rally. They actually took great pains to ensure attendees safety.


    They did not. The removed stickers that would enforce social distancing. See:


    https://nymag.com/intelligence…ckers-at-tulsa-rally.html


    This was a criminal violation of local emergency ordinances. It is like sending your campaign staff out to cut down stop signs and disable traffic lights.


    Quote from Shane D.

    5. That [comment about using disinfectants] is taken out of context

    No, it was not taken out of context. He meant it. He thinks there is a way to use light inside the body, or to ingest disinfectants. It was not a joke.


    Quote from Shane D.

    6. Well, that one I am not sure about. He did reconfirm the next day that he meant what he said [about slowing down the testing]. No matter, because he never took action.

    On the contrary, he did take action. The administration is doing all that it can to slow testing, by defunding it. Also by not cooperating with states, and by closing Federally support programs. Trump has stated many times that he opposes testing because "it makes us look bad"; because he thinks it produces high numbers; and because "testing does not work -- people get tested many times but they get sick anyway."


    Yes, he really is that stupid.

    Looks good but a good deciding study should have all hypothesis stated from the beginning so the careful comment is "please redo it right". When I help with statistical analysis I count the number of comparisons I do, and usually there are some post analysis in studies and use bon feroni corrections. E.g. use 0.05/ Nr of comparisons as the test criteria of what's significant. Not sure how to do it regarding regressions though. I'm leaning towards this is a significant finding though. Good catch.

    Quote from RobertBryant

    Another sophisticated analysis of the NEJM published Boulware " no HCQ benefit' internet trial

    finds that Boulware's statistical analysis ignored the time dependency.

    Maybe Boulware should have taken the time to get a second opinion from another statisitician?


    RB - are you suffering memory loss?


    You posted the interview where Boulware agreed that the smaller number of days results were interesting - but also that a larger study would be needed (which he wants to do) since they are not statistically significant.


    The only difference between him (and me, and the medical establishment) and you (?) certainly the stuff you post, is that you post stuff that jumps the gun and replaces "interesting but not statistically significant (cherry-picked endpoints etc)" by "this paper is wrong, hiding the TRUTH which is that HCQ efficacy is being suppressed".


    Luckily, on these pages here, everyone can read all the links and comment but I'm saddened by the amount of politics.


    The efficacy here is not of use to many people, since HCQ is required well before symptoms appear within 48 hours of exposure - and few people know when they are exposed. So to gain this (possible, and plausible, but not yet proven) benefit you need to be on HCQ continuously.


    There are definite use cases - people at high risk of exposure and high risk of severe COVID - where you might want to take a punt on prophylaxis since the side effects of HCQ are rare.


    But this is a punt - the evidence here is small. Most of the (poor) observational evidnece is for dosage after symptoms, which this study, along with many other RCTs, shows no efficacy for. That does not (in this case) preclude the possibility of some small efficacy because you would need a much larger study for that.


    Interesting to think. if this is true - do we want to dose the entire population continuously on HCQ? The long-term side effects seem to require many years dose - so this would work with relative low side effects for a year.


    Anyway - why can we not have non-polemic discussion of the evidence here?


    THH

    Quote from stefan

    I'm leaning towards this is a significant finding though

    I can't find anywhere in Boulware's analysis any consideration of the stated time course..

    So far there have been two sophisticated analyses that have done this..

    one by Covidanalysis and one by watanabe

    the question is why does Boulware not analyse the time course shown in his NEJM Appendix?

    Covidanalysis states the data is "hidden in the Appendix"


    Is this due to bias..or just not taking to the time to consider more possiblities?

    It is of note that David Boulware did not disclose rceiving a previous research grant support from Gilead.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl…oa2016638_disclosures.pdf

    https://www.astmh.org/ASTMH/me…-Disclosure-Statement.pdf


    another question is

    was there a 46 hour extra delay in treatment as proposed by covidanalysis?

    I am sure Covid analysis will report if and when Boulware replies to him/her

    Covid-19 (WuFlu) News

    Covid-19 (WuFlu) News

    Quote from RobertBryant

    Dr. Stella Immanuel talks about her experience treating COVID-19 patients with HCQ+Zn +A

    WashingtonDC..


    I have the transcript.. just in case..

    Youtube censored Stellla Immanuel.

    execsing its unalienable right.. PDQ ..here is the transcript


    I will edit it later

    "

    00:00 care physician in houston texas 00:04 you know um i actually uh went to medical school in west africa nigeria where i took care ofmalaria patients treated them with hydroxychloroquine and stuff like that so i'm actually used to these medications

    i'm here because i have personally treated over 350 patients with covid patients that have diabetes

    patients that have high blood pressure

    patients that have asthma

    all people i think my oldest patient is 92 year olds and the result has been the same

    i put them on hydroxychloroquine i put it on zinc i put them on zithromax and they are all well

    for the past few months i've taken care of over 350 patients I've not lost one

    not a diabetic not somebody with high ,blood pressure not somebody with asthma,not an old person we've not lost one patient and

    on top of that i've put myself my staff and many doctors that i know on hydroxychloroquine for prevention,, it works early on as a prophylaxis


    we see patients covid patients every day

    we give them breathing treatments we only wear surgical masks none of us has gotten sick

    it works so right now i came here to washington dc to say america nobody needs to die

    the the study that made me start using hydroxychloroquine

    was a study that they did in under the nih in 2005 that say it works


    i'm upset why i'm upset is that i see people that cannot breathe i see parents walk in i see diabetics sit in my office

    knowing that this is a death sentence and they can't breathe and i hug them and i tell them it's gonna be okay

    you're gonna live

    and we treat them and they live

    none has died so if some fake science some person sponsored by all these fake pharma companies comes

    and say oh we've done studies and they found out that it doesn't work i can tell you categorically

    it's fake science i want to know who's sponsoring that study

    i want to know who is behind it because there is no way i can treat 350 patients

    and nobody is dead and they all did bette

    r i know you're gonna tell me 02:50 that you treated 20 people 40 people and it didn't work

    i'm a true testimony so i came here to washington dc to tell america

    nobody needs to get sick this virus has a cure it is called hydroxyl chloroquine zinc and zithromax

    i know people want to talk about a mask hello

    you don't need masks there is a cure i know they don't want to open schools

    no you don't need people to be locked down there is prevention

    and there is a cure and let me tell you something all you fake doctors out there

    that tell me oh yeah .. i want a double-blinded studies i just

    tell you speak sounding like a computer

    double-blinded double-blinded

    is you i don't know whether your chips are malfunctioning

    but i'm a real doctor

    I have radiologists we have plastic surgeons we have neurosurgeons like Sanjay Gupta

    saying oh yeah it doesn't work and it causes heart disease

    let me ask you dr sanjaya gupta hear me have you ever seen a Covid patient

    have you ever treated anybody with hydroxychloroquine and they died from heart disease

    when you do come and talk to me because i sit down in my clinic every day and

    i see this patient walking every day scared to scared to death i see people

    driving two three hours to my clinic because some their doctor is scared of the ?? board

    or they are scared of something and they will not prescribe medication....





    no_photo.pngReplyForward
    Quote from THHuxleynew

    Interesting to think. if this is true - do we want to dose the entire population continuously on HCQ? The long-term side effects seem to require many years dose - so this would work with relative low side effects for a year.


    Anyway - why can we not have non-polemic discussion of the evidence here?


    The master of FUD first makes an ultra polemic statement "do we want to dose the entire population continuously on HCQ?" albeit THH knows that people get this treatment (HCQ + Zink +acitromycin/docy) latest 48 hours after an infection and this is called prevention because treatment is done to prevent more severe symptoms...


    @THH: how many idiots do you believe will take your nonsense FUD as serious opinion ???

    As I have been saying for months, the spin doctoring has been epic. We have forum members who may consider the satanic bow of shame / allegiance (ala the democratic party).


    The inane belief that science = RCT and that clinicians should practice "RCT-based medicine" is a total joke. Clinicians actually can and do make good decisions, especially when their awareness is high. Humans, at their best are powerful pattern detectors.


    Find me a single RCT on any vaccine in history. It doesn't exist and they will never do it. A covid vaccine is imo not necessary and based on past experience of years of vaccines it would injure far more people than it would ever help. Fauci last tried to mass innoculate America in 2002 with Smallpox fear mongering, but they knew the vaccine was so dangerous that it could endanger the entire too big to fail industry. Go research it. Facts.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    No, it was not taken out of context. He meant it. He thinks there is a way to use light inside the body, or to ingest disinfectants. It was not a joke.


    Jed,

    Your bias is really showing through. I have attached the actual video of his statements. He is not talking to scientists, he is making a PR appearance. He is talking in general terms and not attempting to be technical. He states that these ideas sound INTERESTING. His exact words. He does not say it will work or that it is proven. Simply that it is interesting. He explicitly states that medical doctors would need to look into it. Nothing else.


    He NEVER says to drink anything. He never says the word bleach. This is all liberal media twisting lies to further their agenda.


    Report what is actually said, not what YOU want it to be taken as! Watch the video.


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    And yes, there are proven medical treatments using light for other conditions, so it is not completely out of reason, albeit an unlikely solution for Covid. However, he simply states it is interesting, not that he KNOWS or BELIEVES it will work. He states it could be looked into.


    https://www.cancer.gov/about-c…0killing%20cancer%20cells.


    https://www.healthline.com/hea…ed-light-therapy#overview


    and of course, the long time photo therapy (light) treatment for jaundice.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/dis…is-treatment/drc-20373870


    and yes, a firm is even testing a UV light to fight the coronavirus that you are mocking Trump for!


    https://www.washingtontimes.co…ioscience-testing-uv-lig/


    Please do not twist my words and say I am advocating this treatment as you are doing with Trump, I am simply reporting a published article, not stating that it is proven or will work. Just that it is being looked into. You are stating with certainty what what Trump is saying is "Stupid" yet low and behold, someone is actually looking into it.


    Oh, and drinking disinfectants? No he did not say to DO it, but that it was interesting. You say that he believes it and that he is stupid.


    "Chlorhexidine and alexidine have long been used as oral disinfectants by humans. Both compounds inhibit protein–protein interactions mediated by the anti‐apoptotic protein Bcl‐xL at physiologically relevant concentrations and induce apoptosis in a series of tumor cell lines derived from the tongue and pharynx (see picture). Inhibition of protein–protein interactions is a potential mode of action of drugs in current human use."


    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.co…bs/10.1002/anie.201208889


    So it is not out of the realm of reality that a disinfectant could be developed. (He did NOT say to drink bleach as the liberal media lied and stated. He said nothing of the sort, not even close. He did not tell anyone to drink anything. A total fabrication of liberal agenda.)


    So while I certainly agree that Trump often puts his foot in his mouth, this issue is clearly an intentional and predicated smear job by liberal opponents. It certainly shows their intent and disregard for truth and accuracy.


    Your statements on this particular subject are simply wrong, seemingly motivated by purely political animosity as we know you have the ability to search and find the facts yourself, but you have decided to further mis-information regarding this issue.


    :thumbup:

    Quote from Alan Smith

    I have been taking 1000mg of Quercetin a day for around 2 months. No problems to report.


    Thanks Alan, I appreciate the info and while very early, can say I have no side effects yet either. Taking Zinc and Vitamin D as well.


    I am as convinced as ever that one should consider prophylactic options, especially if they have a reasonable scientific theory of function, are supported by positive reports from the front line practitioners and have very low risk.


    In Illinois, the daily case count has been increasing dramatically over the past two weeks. Approaching peak numbers seen during lock down if the trend continues.


    It appears that unless one locks themselves in their house and becomes a hermit, one is going to come into contact with positive Covid carriers at some point. It is wise to attempt to avoid getting Covid or at least possibly reduce the severity of Covid by prophylactic options. Especially if there is no negative down side.


    At least until RCT's are proven and THH then says it is OK to use the RCT medicine! (I just hope THH is still with us by then! :saint:)


    I am reminded of the joke about the drowning man that refused (3) boater's offer of assistance, stating that God was going to save him. He drowned!


    At the pearly gates, he stated "Hey Lord, I had faith you were going to save me! How come you let me drown?" God said "Uh... I sent three boats by to rescue you and you refused each one! What more did you want me to do!?!"8|


    Well..... we have some possible prophylactic "life boat" options.... or do we wait for the RCT God to save us?

    (Sorry THH, I could not resist! Just a bit of kidding here!) :evil:

    Quote from Navid

    Find me a single RCT on any vaccine in history.

    There are quite a few RCTs of varying quality..


    The most famous being for the Salk vaccine for polio... widely publicised in 1954


    https://www.researchgate.net/p…m0SnVxhQSy6yQZ2Z5w&_iepl=


    ”. Francis carefully presented his meticulously compiled results. The overall trial results were clearly positive for all three types of polio: in the placebo controlled areas, protection was 68% against type I, 100% against type II and 92% against type III infection.


    The vaccine was licensed by the PHS the same day the results were announced, and a nationwide vaccination program began on April 26, 1955, two weeks later.

    But tragedy struck soon after, as live virus was discovered in several vaccine lots from the Cutter company;

    69 children got polio, including 59 paralytic cases, and five died [

    The manufacturing failures were not associated with the NFIP and the trial itself remained unscathed.

    However, the rapid pace of research and immediate utilization ..


    The quality of the hoped for Covid vaccine RCT needs to be examined closely to check for adverse effects..as well as effectiveness, since it will be given to billions.

    However if I could find a doctor to prescribe a five day or so rescue pack for HCT+ Zn +Azithromycin

    for me I would not ask them for an RCT.. it would only be for me..

    and the adverse effects are less than ibuprofen..


    Qualifier: Successful trial with adequate long study design that argues for the need for intervention. Adequate = long enough to measure secondary effects, of sufficient size to capture safety risks at a population level, measured vs placebo (not vs another vaccine or vs toxic adjuvants!)


    If I ask you to lather up in DDT and watch for a few months, DDT is also safe and can pass an RCT vs placebo!

    Bromhexine, an inexpensive over-the-counter drug that appears to block Covid-19 cell entry


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