Covid-19 News

Quote from JedRothwell

No, that is not entirely possible. That is entirely impossible. There have been large scale, random antibody studies in China and S. Korea that reveal the extent of undetected infections in the general population.

Jed you seem to have missed the one nasty fact: There is T-cell cross immunity with older corona infections (possibly also - weaker with flue) .

In case of minor infections, people with cross immunity will not express antibodies! Only in case of a strong infection they will show antibodies that afterwards will vanish relatively fast.

Thus one must assume that e.g. in our country about 80% of all people are more or less immune to CoV-19 - what means if they get it, it will be - in most cases - just an unnoticed short episode.

Because of this it is currently impossible to trace all infected/exposed people!

This virus needs clear thinking minds for understanding it's behavior and also to understand how to cure it. And no two populations are the same!

And Japan is now also failing to contain CoV-19!

Quote from Wyttenbach

Because of this it is currently impossible to trace all infected/exposed people!

I doubt you are right about that, but it would make no difference. It is impossible to trace all infected or exposed people now, for many reasons. Many of them have no idea they were exposed, or when or where. Others refuse to cooperate. For others, the tracers are overwhelmed and do not get around to the case until it is too late.

There is NO NEED to trace them all. You only need to trace some fraction of the total so that the R0 infection rate goes down well below 1. Do that, and infections subside, the crisis is contained, and we can wait for a vaccine.

Quote from JedRothwell

Do that, and infections subside, the crisis is contained, and we can wait for a vaccine.

How long do you want to wait for a vaccine?? Will you take the first crap on the market??

I will wait at least 2 years! If I need it! - what currently seems not to be the case as for most people here too...

Quote from JedRothwell

School Superintendent Brian Otott said:

"Class changes at the high school level are a challenge when maintaining a specific schedule. It is an area we are continuing to work on in this new environment to find practicable ways to further limit students from congregating. Students are in this hallway environment for just a brief period as they move to their next class. ... There is no question that the photo does not look good. ... Wearing a mask is a personal choice, and there is no practical way to enforce a mandate to wear them."

Stop for a moment and think about that. You will see multiple layers of grotesque stupidity and homicidal irresponsibility. This is why the U.S. is suffering when other countries are not. Because we have people like this in charge.

The Superintendent thinks he has no power to mandate masks, and no practical way to enforce them. Yet he believes he can suspend a student who tells the world that the school headed for a catastrophe. He thinks he has no power to avoid killing hundreds of people and destroying thousands of lives, but he has the power to gag a 15-year-old.

Obviously he could enforce a mandate. Just tell the students to wear masks! If a kid refuses or takes off the mask, send him home. Suspend him, the way he suspended Hannah Watters. If a kid defecated in the hallway, or brought in rotten eggs and threw them at people, they would suspend him immediately. Going around without a mask is more dangerous than crapping in the hallway. It is more likely to kill someone. So, obviously, it should not be allowed.

Quote from Wyttenbach

How long do you want to wait for a vaccine??

I don't want to wait, but they don't have one yet, so I have to. I hope one will be available next year.

Quote from Wyttenbach

Will you take the first crap on the market??

It is unlikely to be crap. They are doing careful testing on tens of thousands of people already. If a vaccine causes harm, I am sure they will find out. It may not be a very effective cure, but I would not call that "crap."

I will take the first one available. At my age, getting the disease is dangerous. Far more dangerous than the first commercially available vaccines will be.

Quote from Wyttenbach

I will wait at least 2 years! If I need it!

You will need it, but you may not get it. Instead, you will depend on others to get it, giving society herd immunity. This is profoundly anti-social of you. It is disgraceful.

Quote from Wyttenbach

How long do you want to wait for a vaccine?? Will you take the first crap on the market??

I will wait at least 2 years! If I need it! - what currently seems not to be the case as for most people here too...

Why ask questions you know the answer to. His head is in the sand. He doesn't believe in large scale criminality so he's a sheep to slaughter. He doesn't know about the brutality of the current Guardasil vaccine, or the 2002 Fauci Smallpox episode, or really anything about this industry. Just "I'm sure they will be safe." Which is pathological thinking since a vaccine tested for weeks or months even, cannot be assured to be safe anyway...who do you think they test vaccines on -- old people or vulnerable people?

Quote from JedRothwell

You will need it, but you may not get it. Instead, you will depend on others to get it, giving society herd immunity. This is profoundly anti-social of you. It is disgraceful

Even if you were paid to say this kind of moralistic garbage, it is shows a bankrupt soul that shouts from on-high to his neighbour about taking a medical product (that may change his dna) as a saving grace, when there are criminals are running the show.

If I was the board admin, I'd boot you off for scolding others about this topic. Your arbitrary moral positions are wasted space and more dangerous than anything else - yes arbitrary because you don't even know if it works, or if it kills, and who it works for or who it kills.

Quote from Navid

Even if you were paid to say this kind of moralistic garbage, it is shows a bankrupt soul that shouts from on-high to his neighbour about taking a medical product (that may change his dna)

Medical products do not change your DNA. Except, I suppose, radium drinks circa 1920. You do not appear to know much about biology.

Quote from JedRothwell

Medical products do not change your DNA. Except, I suppose, radium drinks circa 1920. You do not appear to know much about biology.

I'm not an expert, but I do understand the Moderna's vaccine approach and (others) is a novel approach that is unproven.

Quote from JedRothwell

No, that is not entirely possible. That is entirely impossible. There have been large scale, random antibody studies in China and S. Korea that reveal the extent of undetected infections in the general population. If there were millions of cases that were not detected while the patient was ill, these studies would reveal them. There were also fairly large scale random antibody tests in New York. These showed a significant number of undetected cases, because New York city is the worst-hit place on earth, but there were also undiagnosed dead patients in hospitals and people who died at home, which pushes the case mortality rate in the other direction.

If there were tens of millions of people infected so far in the U.S., we would have hundreds of thousands more dead people and our hospitals would have been overwhelmed weeks ago. That may still happen, but it has not happened yet. The administration and the governors of Florida and Georgia are doing all they can to make that happen! U.S. infection rates and death rates are far worse than the rest of the developed world combined, but still not so bad that there might be millions of infected people. Our biology is the same as in S. Korea. Their case mortality is better than ours, so if they don't have massive numbers of hidden cases, we don't either. The numbers would not add up.

I will grant that our testing is so bad, and our healthcare system in such third-world chaos, we have no way to accurately estimate hidden cases. However, in countries where they have 20th century grade health care (not even 21st century grade -- but what we used to have, decades ago) they can reliably measure the extent of infections. If there were thousands of undetected cases in Greece, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, Canada or any other country with a functional public health system, they would know it.

vehemently disagree.

You have absolutely ZERO idea how many people are infected, ZERO.

So obviously, it is possible.

Do honestly believe that the 5 million people that have been tested and shown positive are the only infected people in the US?

Do you?

Hopefully not

If every resident was tested today I would not be surprised to see 20-30 million people that have the virus or the antibodies.

Banned by Big Tech and The"News"Media for promoting HCQ --

America's "Most Dangerous" Doctors Speak Out

Quote from Curbina

but what about millions left with any range from severe to subclinical neurological

https://www.marketwatch.com/st…hs-later-study-2020-08-07

55% of coronavirus patients still have neurological problems three months later: study

Now a study of 60 COVID-19 patients published in Lancet this week finds that 55% of them were still displaying such neurological symptoms during follow-up visits three months later.

https://www.thelancet.com/jour…-5370(20)30228-5/fulltext

Quote from oldguy

https://www.marketwatch.com/st…hs-later-study-2020-08-07

55% of coronavirus patients still have neurological problems three months later: study

Small correction: 55% of long time Hospital coronavirus patients show some changes...

But CoV-19 attacks almost everywhere including blood vessels that are everywhere. .... And the lab added AIDS heritage allows also inter cellular migration... Quite ugly!

As an I look to the members of the forum for information that might be useful in surviving the pandemic. Local and national news is nothing more than fearmogering pandering to the weak-minded. The people I once considered rational and intelligent on this forum have seemed to lost their minds of any rational thinking or simply using common sense. Jed a man I once considered intelligent and well foundered turned out doesn't have an original thought in his head. CNN and New York Times experts, ya no political bias there, and world meter speaks for you. By the way Jed are these the same type of experts that say cold fusion is trash science? What experts should I be listening to. The ones that's say lockdowns work or the experts that say they don't. The real failure of the whole pandemic is science and the people or experts in the field who are ripping each other apart. America has no early treatment program just send them home to quarantine and when you can't breath come-on down to the hospital and die or come out a surviver facing mountain sized bills not just hospital but mortgage utilities and food bills. Early in this thread people like Dr. Richard, his research on hydroxychloroquine, was way ahead of the medical field. And Robert Bryant offered useful information on treatments from other infected areas around the world. I have ordered and received pretty much all of his anti bat virus meds and supplements most of which I already have and been taking. Shane had the balls to ask the only important and common sense question at the time, is the cure worse thàn the virus. Well bother that set it all off, Jed lost his mind, Thh needs more information and evidence,nothing new there, and a thread not meant to be political (Alan, wu-flu news? A little brit wit?) has blown up into nothing more than political mud slinging. To Shane, Wyttenbach Dr Richard Robert Bryant Bob 2 Mark U, Lou, and any others on this forum who I have forgotten, you guys had the balls to go out and research what has become a political football in early treatments for covid 19 , I can now sit down with my doctor and discuss the proper treatment for me if I come down with it. Thanks for all your hard work. Down the road history will write that because of the political unrest at the time of the pandemic early treatments demonized by science and media alike, led to the the deaths of thousands who with early treatment, know at the time, could have and would have survived. Hopefully they name names of the people who are under the guise of science led to the unnecessary deaths of thousands

Quote from Wyttenbach

Small correction: 55% of long time Hospital coronavirus patients show some changes...

But CoV-19 attacks almost everywhere including blood vessels that are everywhere. .... And the lab added AIDS heritage allows also inter cellular migration... Quite ugly!

Wyttenbach, I havent researched this aspect of the disease (vascular) but it seems novel....does it not? Are there any papers you recommend to understand mechanisms?

Quote from Fm1

What experts should I be listening to. The ones that's say lockdowns work or the experts that say they don't.

yes, there is variation between experts. And it could be that both are right but just that different cultures, nations, states, … have different conditions. Deep rural farm communities with low population densities , for example, are entirely different from big metropolitan cities with subways, elevators and handrails.... etc. People riding a tractor in the middle of 40 acres or fishing in the middle of a lake don't need a mask but people riding in a packed elevator for 10 minutes might want to use one.

I don't expect that "one size will fit all" in any of these recommendations.

I agree one size doesn't fit all but the national US media believes it does and spreads that agenda. My point is that with all the misinformation pushed by the medical research and in turn the media, how does one get honest answers when even medical research has taken political sides