Very high mortality amongst bus drivers and hospital workers as compared with (say) politicians had certainly shaped their viewpoint.
Yup. In that regard, I expect Boris Johnson's severe case was one of the best things to happen in the U.K. I suppose it put the Fear of God into the ruling class.
Johnson is a insufferable jerk, but what he said when he got out of the hospital was wonderful. Honest, touching, modest, grateful . . . the right thing to say and the right way to say it.
you cant stop the twisting of any point of view like this is what you do for a living
DnG
Do you know why I can be quite sure that your view of the world is rubbish?
It seems that the only way you to sustain it is to reckon I am a paid emissary of those dark forces you fear.
Well, here I have an advantage over you. You can speculate - based on your wrong assumptions, why I post here. I know it. And anyone else of good sense who has observed me over time also knows this. I may be right, or wrong, but my motivation here is to argue what I believe true. And in the process educate myself. i am not paid, nor do I gain any career benefit, from posting here. My one principle is that I try to tell things as they are.
You think this bizaare and false idea so easily of me because I guess your views only cohere if 95% of the world's experts are similarly (in your view) dishonest. Either working for some corrupt ends, or so afraid of "their masters" that they must toe the line. That is why i call this view both arrogant (you are one of the few brave people who know the truth) and dismal (almost everyone has no integrity).
It is extraordinary to me that anyone would think, in Western democracies, that such uniformity of views could exist. We tolerate all views. Even ones obviously crackpot like yours. And it is right we do this, right that you should post here or elsewhere and argue your case. There will be those here who agree with you, and disagree with me.
Happy posting, THH
Display MoreDnG
Do you know why I can be quite sure that your view of the world is rubbish?
It seems that the only way you to sustain it is to reckon I am a paid emissary of those dark forces you fear.
Well, here I have an advantage over you. You can speculate - based on your wrong assumptions, why I post here. I know it. And anyone else of good sense who has observed me over time also knows this. I may be right, or wrong, but my motivation here is to argue what I believe true. And in the process educate myself. i am not paid, nor do I gain any career benefit, from posting here. My one principle is that I try to tell things as they are.
You think this bizaare and false idea so easily of me because I guess your views only cohere if 95% of the world's experts are similarly (in your view) dishonest. Either working for some corrupt ends, or so afraid of "their masters" that they must toe the line. That is why i call this view both arrogant (you are one of the few brave people who know the truth) and dismal (almost everyone has no integrity).
It is extraordinary to me that anyone would think, in Western democracies, that such uniformity of views could exist. We tolerate all views. Even ones obviously crackpot like yours. And it is right we do this, right that you should post here or elsewhere and argue your case. There will be those here who agree with you, and disagree with me.
Happy posting, THH
The few post I have made in the virus thread are
1 its going to spread all over the place with no way to stop it
2 anything that can infringe on the immune system are being used to kill not help.
3 the math they are giving up is junk
4 keeping what is available to help away for people is a Crime
5 truth is ... you spin topics for a living at a time of need by meany.
you spin topics for a living
Be more precise. you believe I am this corrupt person. That is your right. It is very misguided, and makes me quite cross to be accused of dishonesty. Except that in your case you have given no reason for this assertion except that I do not agree with your views, and it is more laughable than annoying.
If i understand correctly your views are anti-vax (?) - and anti-expert. as for keeping what is available away from people - if by that you mean HCQ - i'm pretty neutral. I reckon doctors should be free to give what they want. They bear the risk of wrong prescribing, not you or I. And no-one can be certain what is right, it is balance of probabilities. There is a long history in medicine of doctors jumping on treatments that do more harm than good and sticking with them. I think this is what makes those who want to stop individual doctors doing what seems right act as they do.
I profoundly disagree with you on both the non-HCQ points. Vaccines are not perfect, but they are the only way out of COVID (unless we find some miracle drug - not likely). Experts are wrong sometimes. Non-experts are wrong most of the time. Which would you choose?
And Youtube videos on conspiracy sites are wrong 99% of the time.
Back to the matter of HCQ as prophylaxis.
As i understand it, no-one had proved that HCQ does not work as prophylaxis, nor that it does work.
Some people here seem convinced (1) that it does work (2) those who say it does not work are corrupt or stupid.
Given lack of proof HCQ is no different from any number of otehr drugs with side effects (at a low level) that might work for prophylaxis but can be sure, if given to everyone, of harming some people.
You can see why doctors generally are reluctant to dose up entire populations. the same reason that when we have a candidate vaccine we wait another 6 months for tests (at least) before giving it to everyone, even though it stands a good chance of stopping COVID in its tracks. It looks as though Putin will not do this, but then he is an autocrat and does not worry about harming his population, nor much about them complaining.
Maybe some politics has got into blanket US renunciations but you can see from the "I know HCQ works, the evil people are keeping it from me" meme that without controls lots of people will demand a treatment that we know in some cases (more severe COVID) does harm.
THH
Display MoreBe more precise. you believe I am this corrupt person. That is your right. It is very misguided, and makes me quite cross to be accused of dishonesty. Except that in your case you have given no reason for this assertion except that I do not agree with your views, and it is more laughable than annoying.
If i understand correctly your views are anti-vax (?) - and anti-expert. as for keeping what is available away from peopel - if by that you mean HCQ - i'm pretty neutral. I reckon doctors should be free to give what they want. They bear the risk of wrong prescribing, not you or I. And no-one can be certain what is right, it is balance of probabilities. There is a long history in medicine of doctors jumping on treatments that do more harm than good and sticking with them. i think this is what makes those who want to stop individual doctors doing what seems right act as they do.
I profoundly disagree with you on both the non-HCQ points. Vaccines are not perfect, but they are the only way out of COVID (unless we find some miracle drug - not likely). Experts are wrong sometimes. Non-experts are wrong most of the time. Which would you choose?
And Youtube videos on conspiracy sites are wrong 99% of the time.
you got all that and stayed on script, No THH I'm just making a document why.
stayed on script, No THH I'm just making a document why
More than that. You are dishonest yourself here. Craven. Too afraid to say what you really mean.
You believe I have some "script" which I stay on. That I do "what I am paid to do". Without details. Because you know if you said what you really believe everyone would laugh you out of court. So you hint and "make your document why".
So - go for it, tell us all why I am a lying hypocrite, unable to think for myself, doing the bidding of my masters. Tell us who are my masters, why on earth would they pay me to post here of all places, and what I am being paid to do.
I'd like it all laid out in detail. Mods: I'd hope you do not delete this. DnG and some others have been making nasty veiled remarks about me for a long time. No idea why, except they don't like what I say. They should ante up, or admit they are talking through their hats.
Some people here seem convinced (1) that it does work (2) those who say it does not work are corrupt or stupid.
As to point (2); I do not think anyone here, including you, has said they were anti-HCQ. Now, plenty of us have said the media has been corrupt in their covering the HCQ story.
Thh again spinning. I think the same thing can be said about a vaccine but I guess in the name of science and more importantly money those that die will die for mankind? So Thh is deaths due to rushing a vaccine into the population more acceptable than trying a drug used for 40 years considered safer than an asprin try using common sense !!!
Display MoreMore than that. You are dishonest yourself here. Craven. Too afraid to say what you really mean.
You believe I have some "script" which I stay on. That I do "what I am paid to do". Without details. Because you know if you said what you really believe everyone would laugh you out of court. So you hint and "make your document why".
So - go for it, tell us all why I am a lying hypocrite, unable to think for myself, doing the bidding of my masters. Tell us who are my masters, why on earth would they pay me to post here of all places, and what I am being paid to do.
I'd like it all laid out in detail. Mods: I'd hope you do not delete this. DnG and some others have been making nasty veiled remarks about me for a long time. No idea why, except they don't like what I say. They should ante up, or admit they are talking through their hats.
your wisdom teeth are showing THH ...
you guys can move all this if you like,
its the last of my documentation.
keep an eye on everything
Stay safe.
The few post I have made in the virus thread are
1 its going to spread all over the place with no way to stop it
That is rubbish. It has not spread in many countries, and in others such as Italy, it spread but they stopped it. They are now seeing 300 cases a day and 5 or 10 deaths. They will probably lose few people before a vaccine becomes available.
Notions such this -- we are helpless, nothing can be done, no way to stop it, and "it is what it is" (Trump) -- are what drive up the infection rate and the mortality rate. Such views are not fit the 21st century. They made sense hundreds of years ago, but that kind of ignorant fatalism should have no place in the modern mind. We can do something. We have a moral obligation to prevent this. The deaths are caused by politics and stupidity. National and state leaders and idiots like the people at the Sturgis SD biker rally are to blame for both the disease and for the economic disaster. It is a disgrace. It is un-American.
So Thh is deaths due to rushing a vaccine into the population
No one is rushing a vaccine into the population. A vaccine will be tested with tens of thousands of volunteers before it is released to the general population. It will be safe. It may not be very effective, but it will be safe.
The volunteers are taking a risk to keep the rest of us safe. We owe them a debt of gratitude.
we are helpless, nothing can be done, no way to stop it
DNG didn't write this.. and neither did Trump. not even the WHO.. this is hyperbole
DNG didn't write this.. and neither did Trump. not even the WHO.. this is hyperbole
He did write that, in the message above that I quoted: "its going to spread all over the place with no way to stop it."
Perhaps he was quoting someone. Anyway, various people have said that. The W.H.O. has not said anything like that. They said the opposite in February. Countries that listened to them and employed the methods they recommended were able to contain the virus, so obviously they were right.
No one is rushing a vaccine into the population. A vaccine will be tested with tens of thousands of volunteers before it is released to the general population. It will be safe. It may not be very effective, but it will be safe.
The volunteers are taking a risk to keep the rest of us safe. We owe them a debt of gratitude.
Umm. Putin says Russia has a vaccine and he has vaccinated his daughter.
I suspect this is the Oxford vaccine (being produced in many places but not yet finished Phase II/II testing) which he has stolen: but it could be home grown I suppose.
So it seems pretty certain Putin is rushing a vaccine into the population.
Then there is the Chinese vaccine we don't know much about, used only on military - so i guess that does not count as population!
Do you know why I can be quite sure that your view of the world is rubbish?
It seems that the only way you to sustain it is to reckon I am a paid emissary of those dark forces you fear.
You are a very untalented spin doctor that is behaving like a cheap Russian troll. Your primary weapon is name calling and putting people into conspiracy corner. Only problem: You are a member of the largest conspiracy group (F) of the western world that is well known to undermine all positive groups.
Be more precise. you believe I am this corrupt person. That is your right. It is very misguided, and makes me quite cross to be accused of dishonesty. Except that in your case you have given no reason for this assertion except that I do not agree with your views, and it is more laughable than annoying.
If i understand correctly your views are anti-vax (?) - and anti-expert. as for keeping what is available away from people - if by that you mean HCQ - i'm pretty neutral.
You have a very high profile in lying! Most recent: "if by that you mean HCQ - i'm pretty neutral." Only problem: You always cite the criminal negative studies and desperately try to balance this with pseudo positive arguments of the "might" kind.
New light at the of the tunnel? (German link)
https://www.srf.ch/news/schwei…-fuer-covid-19-medikament
A new Swiss University spin-off developed a customized anti CoV-19 cocktail out of the three best fitting small proteins that break multiple CoV-19 infection paths.
Could well be one of the most hot stories as it could work for most virus infections/contaminous diseases.
You have a very high profile in lying! Most recent: "if by that you mean HCQ - i'm pretty neutral." Only problem: You always cite the criminal negative studies and desperately try to balance this with pseudo positive arguments of the "might" kind.
More Wyttenfacts. Most UK and US doctors would think I am too pro-HCQ. Zelenko et al - and obviously you - would think I am anti it. Over such judgements no-one (normally) lies. You can argue that people in politics - Trump even possibly Fauci - say things carefully knowing they will have a political effect, rather than giving the unvarnished full truth. I am not in politics and don't varnish anything here.
In any case - my relatively (for this board) negative stance is realistic, based on RCT results overall. I'm not saying HCQ does not have prophylactic uses - just that this is not proven, and it is difficult to give a not 100% safe drug to all of the population on a hope that it will do more good than harm.
No-one here has taken up the point I've made that even if HCQ is a decent prophylactic anti-viral, when it does not work and severe COVID develops it is also a powerful immunomodulatory drug. We don't know how that interacts with the COVID cytokine storm but evidence so far is that it makes it worse.
That would not matter except that it stays in the body for a long time, so if taken prophylactically it will be there for those who dveelop severe COVID.
THH
Thh rather than plead to the mods maybe take a look in the mirror and ask yourself are they right rather than wining. I'll take the duck approach if it walks like a duck. First on the lern threads you'll enter a thread with let me play devil's advocate ALWAYs, 1 walking like a duck. When your point is failing you begin to repeat failed point over and over. When challenged you call out conspiracy but you yourself believes people like Jed are conspiring to defraud the science community with cold fusion Jed I bet believes that there is. a conspiracy in the patent office against anything labeled cold fusion. Conspiracy is involved in every day life get over it. So through my eyes and not speaking for anyone else. You sir are a duck!
Move over HCQ, the "Ivermectin triple cocktail" is picking up momentum: https://www.trialsitenews.com/category/ivermectin/
They do not list it, but a Miami area (Broward County) Hospital system cut their mortality 48% with Iver. Same problem getting widespread acceptance as did HCQ...it is cheap, so no money to be made. Fortunately it does not come with the same political baggage as HCQ. Trump has been advised not to mention the "I" drug. 
Have to give Wyttenbach credit for being ahead of this story. In fact, overall, I would say this thread has been leading the pack on just about every aspect of COVID.
