All well coverd by Jed's univesal model ??
What the hell are you talking about? I pointed out that the infection rate in Yamaguchi is far lower than the rest of Japan, and Japan is far lower than the U.S. What is "universal" about that?
You should address what I say, instead of making up pretend versions of it.
From the 'Nature' newsletter.
Children run past a mural warning about COVID-19 in Nairobi. Kenya has reported relatively few cases so far. (Brian Inganga/AP/Shutterstock) Africa’s COVID-19 mystery
Antibody surveys across Africa have shown that a large proportion of people has been infected with COVID-19 — but the continent has so far been spared the worst ravages of the disease. For example, perhaps 1 in 20 adults in Kenya, or 1.6 million people, have been exposed to SARS-CoV-2, according to one preprint study that looked at blood donors in the country. Yet Kenya’s official death toll is under 500, it has not seen an overall rise in mortality and its hospitals have not reported large numbers of people with symptoms. Scientists are exploring whether the result could be due to the continent’s youthful populations, genetic factors or some kind of protection gleaned from exposure to other diseases.
Science | 6 min read
Reference: medRxiv preprint
Back in April, Kenyan's bought so much HCQ OTC, the Health Ministries Pharmacy Board changed the rules to allow only doctor prescriptions:
https://www.pulselive.co.ke/bi…cking-it-to-treat/bf2gxme
Now, 6 months later, the Nature Newsletter tries to understand why Kenyan's have been "spared the worst ravages", but does not mention HCQ. Hmmm.
@Jed: You are damn over stressed by the current situation! You should relax and have a good diner with a fine wine.
My uncle is 89 goes shopping without a mask and does not fear the situation. But the average Swiss is much more healthy than the average US citizen. We (almost) all go shopping without masks for sure no gloves. We only use hand sanitizer for the cart and after shopping.
You look healthy too at least last year in Assisi and if you have a liter of orange juice ready to take on first symptoms you can do nothing wrong. Quercetin, zinc is still free available and also Ivermectin is not that difficult to get just for the purpose that you can sleep well. (Trump uses Soolantra too...)
The only shame is the inner state of the USA that now shows everybody that "we" are no so great as we believed to be...
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2020.08.04.20167205v2
Telmisartan (cheap, for those who reckon any expensive drug with positive results is part of a medical-pharma conspiracy)
Appears to reduce time to discharge over standard treatment. Small randomised trial, but very statistically significant result.
This study shows 50% mortality reduction - but at p=0.41 that has no significance.
These results are the ones we badly need more and larger tests on - what dose, who does it help, how do different drugs combine.
THH
https://www.freep.com/story/ne…ine-covid-fda/3360940001/
This grows more outrageous by the day. Henry Ford Health System did the study showing 50% decrease in deaths with HCQ. Based on their findings, they asked the FDA'a approval to start using the drug on patients meeting these criteria:
-Age 18 or older
-Have a positive COVID-19 test
-Be admitted to any of its six hospitals
-Be low risk for heart complications based on an electrocardiogram algorithm. A QT interval higher than 500 milliseconds was considered an elevated cardiac risk.
The FDA denied their request.
Display Morehttps://www.freep.com/story/ne…ine-covid-fda/3360940001/
This grows more outrageous by the day. Henry Ford Health System did the study showing 50% decrease in deaths with HCQ. Based on their findings, they asked the FDA'a approval to start using the drug on patients meeting these criteria:
-Age 18 or older
-Have a positive COVID-19 test
-Be admitted to any of its six hospitals
-Be low risk for heart complications based on an electrocardiogram algorithm. A QT interval higher than 500 milliseconds was considered an elevated cardiac risk.
The FDA denied their request.
Shane - you are badly wrong.
The RCT evidence on use of HCQ in hospitalised (=> not early stage) patients is that it harms, slightly. Certainly no evidence it does good.
You seem to put non-RCT evidence which is all over the place and we know can easily be pushed eitehr way by confounding factors above the plentifyl RCT evidence. Why?
I can see uncertainty in whether HCQ is good post-exposure pre-symptomatic prophylaxis - or even good "take it all the time" prophylaxis. I'd leave it to doctors. However for severely ill patients the evidence is it harms. Letting doctors to this based on a poor undertanding of the data is just killing more people.
THH
My uncle is 89 goes shopping without a mask and does not fear the situation.
Then your uncle is an idiot, like all those motorcycle riders in Sturgis, SD. Or like the French Director-General of Infantry in 1910 who said of machine guns: "Make no mistake, this weapon will change absolutely nothing." Or Douglas Haig, who said in 1914, the machine gun is "a grossly overrated weapon."
Just becomes someone does not fear a situation, that does not mean there is nothing to fear. Lots of foolish people in the U.S. go to bars and carouse. Unless a vaccine comes along soon, millions of them will end up in hospitals, fighting for their lives. Others will spend the rest of their lives with health problems, unable to run or climb stairs, or unable to work because of strokes. Others will die. That is definitely something to fear. It is much worse than, say, automobile accidents or cancer.
Granted the situation is much worse in the U.S. than Europe.
Shane - you are badly wrong.
The RCT evidence on use of HCQ in hospitalised (=> not early stage) patients is that it harms, slightly. Certainly no evidence it does good.
You seem to put non-RCT evidence which is all over the place and we know can easily be pushed eitehr way by confounding factors above the plentifyl RCT evidence. Why?
Does the Henry Ford Hospital System, and doctors in general, know what they are doing? Do you trust that they would know when, and how to administer HCQ if given the authority? If you were king for the day, would you ban HCQ use worldwide for COVID?
As a reminder, HCQ has been safely used for 70 years. It can be bought in many countries OTC. Many frontline health care workers in western countries are quietly, for fear of being outed, using it prophylactically. Many countries are using it as their main treatment, and have reported no detrimental effects. In fact, they seem to think it works great.
The RCT evidence on use of HCQ in hospitalised (=> not early stage) patients is that it harms, slightly. Certainly no evidence it does good.
You seem to put non-RCT evidence which is all over the place and we know can easily be pushed eitehr way by confounding factors above the plentifyl RCT evidence. Why?
THH -
Please tell me of one / ANY medicine that has had a comprehensive and widely agreed upon RCT outcome that shows indisputable, positive COVID effect! Please provide what RCT evidence your refer to above that is widely agreed upon and without major error or dispute?
Your obsession with RCT is simply not well placed here. Why do you not disparage Remedisvir like HCQ? Are you willing to say that it SHOULD DEFINITELY be used because of RCT and those RCT are worthi the paper they are written on?
I will take front line worker support, HUGE observational evidence, a significant number of other countries formal approval, a seemingly reasonable theory of why it works, availability over DOING NOTHING as HCQ is not dangerous if handled properly.
It was prescribed over 5,600,000 times in 2017 alone! Yes, that is 5 million plus! Yet it is deadly?
https://clincalc.com/DrugStats…HydroxychloroquineSulfate
Appears to reduce time to discharge over standard treatment.
Again, you mention "standard treatment". I have found no published protocol that is considered "standard treatment". So please describe what this protocol is that is so much better and proved successful than if HCQ is used. Most is "bed rest" and fever suppression etc.
Until something comes out that is actually proven, I will certainly consider the very large observational, reasonable working theory and front line support for VERY low risk medicines such as HCQ and Ivermectin........
wait.... I cannot! For some freaking political reason, they have been actually BANNED! I have not found any precedent in google searches for this type of banishment! Off label use has always been given to the doctor. Oh yes, one can still purchase pot for Covid symptoms! Now THAT has had multiple RCT's for sure! 
I just do not understand your somewhat obsession with dispelling this subject. HCQ and Ivermectin is used by the millions, it is well understood and if administered by a doctor has little to no risk. Yet you really speak out against it in favor of what? Remedisvir?
To deny this free choice option to consenting patients and doctors when there is no alternatives proven otherwise is criminal!
I am taking Querciten because HCQ has been banned. I assume you think Querciten should thus also be banned as it has no RCT's either!
As I have mentioned here before.... I am in a very high contact position from literally people all over the country. Logic dictates I WILL get Covid at some point.
Since my doctors have been banned from giving any propholactic HCQ or Ivermectin, what does THH suggest I take? I am sincere about this question. Or do you simply promote sitting on ones hands and doing nothing until ventilator tubes are required? I do not know if you have children or not, but are you telling THEM to do nothing propholactic?
So again, what are you advocating? Doing nothing? (I am not talking about hand washing or masks either)
Why do you not disparage Remedisvir like HCQ? Are you willing to say that it SHOULD DEFINITELY be used because of RCT and those RCT are worthi the paper they are written on?
Was reading this article about how Houston defied the dire predictions, and beat back this latest surge: https://www.nationalreview.com…t-trending&utm_term=first
and in it, two of the leaders of the effort had this to say about Remdesiver:
“Remdesivir barely works. It’s very weak in its effect, which is unfortunate,” Delgado said. “The convalescent plasma definitely works — very important. I’ve personally seen that saved many lives.”
“We have not seen a lot of success with plasma, we have done a lot of it. I can’t honestly tell you that it has been a ‘wow’-type treatment. I know that we are continue to use Remdesivir, even that, it has not been a life-saving medication, let me just put it that way,” Porsa added.
Peak Prosperity's latest video -
Fighting the Mainstream Press
The Media Is Still Badly Failing Us With It's Compromised Coverage of Covid-19
- calls into question the objectivity of The"News"Media on Covid developments -
After reviewing a large number of published concerns on rushing vaccine testing,
Chris Martenson indicts CNN, the flagship of The Authoritarian Left:
"The only thing that CNN led with here is ... the only reason you could be against any vaccine
is because you are a conspiracy theory, lie spreading propaganda machine ... it's actually CNN
that's actually promoting the propaganda here ..." - and defends HCQ and Ivermectin against
attacks like the UK NHS "Recovery Study" - Also notes the exponential growth of "adverse events"
in HCQ treatment that seem to coincide with advent of Covid.
Chris Martenson indicts CNN, the flagship of The Authoritarian Left:
"The only thing that CNN led with here is ... the only reason you could be against any vaccine
is because you are a conspiracy theory, lie spreading propaganda machine ...
As Will Rogers said, "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat." Calling anything the "flagship" of the "authoritarian" left is silly. It shows you know nothing about the left. It is chaos. It is not organized or led by anyone, and even the leading politicians cannot get anyone to fall in line. There is no party unity. I wish there was some! Say what you like about the GOP, their House and Senate members toe the line. No one will defy Trump. He and the Senate leaders tell members how to vote, and they do it. They have discipline.
CNN posts plenty of information about people opposed to vaccine, without mentioning conspiracy theories. They have posted plenty of direct statements from such people. They also have unbiased reports and direct quotes about HCQ. You can learn as much about HCQ and the controversy from CNN as from any other mainstream medium that I know of. Perhaps their editorial writers disparage it. I have not read them. But that has not kept the news department from covering it in detail and quoting people on both sides of the controversy. As long as both sides are quoted correctly in and in roughly equal detail, you have no reason to complain.
You can learn as much about HCQ and the controversy from CNN
here is the news from the Yuma desert. not on CNN..
A patient admitted to my hospital ER. Pt is a 73 y/o female with COVID positive, impaired renal function, on dialysis, had QT prolongation, hypertension, cough, diarrhea, and required oxygen
. Infectious disease wanted to put the patient on Remdesivir but med is contraindicated for patients with severe renal impairment
. So ID put the patient on Hydroxychloroquine and zinc.
The patient was also put on Rocephin, lovenox, and dexamethasone.
After 1 day, the patient no longer required oxygen and was on room air,
decrease cough, decrease diarrhea, increase appetite, and increase verbal communication.
2nd day continued to get better and on the 4th day, discharged to home. Please sign Dr. Zelenko's eua petition.
petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/please-give-zelenko-protocol-eua
Here is a suggestion to end the pandemic.
1st) We must make Hydroxychloroquine, zinc, vitamin C, and vitamin D3 abundantly available in the outpatient setting.
2nd) Return to normal activities in including sports, concerts, shows, etc.,
3rd) If anyone begins to have 1 COVID-19 symptom, get on HCQ, zinc, vitamin C, and D right away
. 4) If 1 family member in your household has COVID-19, everyone in the house will be on the 4 medications.
5) After 2 months everyone would have had COVID-19 recovered and somewhat immune, it will be very hard for the virus to continue.
It will die off. This is a theory to end the pandemic. No one has any plan right now.
If you have experience in healthcare, please make a suggestion to add to or tweak this theory, I would appreciate it.
Please let's pull together and come up with a plan. Please do not criticize, it will not be beneficial to anyone. Thanks!
here is the news from the Yuma desert. not on CNN.
What is your point? That CNN does not cover every single story about HCQ? Of course it does not. It cannot cover every story about anything. The question is: Does CNN cover both sides of this dispute? Yes. Does it let experts on both sides have their say? Yes.
Perhaps it leans somewhat to one side. I have not read enough about this issue to judge, but suppose it does. That is still far from being a "propaganda machine." Such statements are inflammatory.
What is your point?
No point .. I thought the view from Yuma.Arizona. and the Hispanic accents was interesting.. epluribus unum
.. it will be interesting if CNN reports this story. or Fox..
neither appear to have reported Dr George Fareed
https://www.thedesertreview.co…ea-8943-4f707d6ebc1a.html
Maybe this stuff is just for the desert/Valley denizens.
https://www.thedesertreview.co…ea-88e5-1790265e7292.html
"
In our attempts to keep people alive, we have had an opportunity to use many different types of treatments —
remdesivir, dexamethasone, convalescent plasma replacement, etc. Yet, by far the best tool beyond supportive care with oxygen
has been the combination of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), with either azithromycin or doxycycline, and zinc.
This “HCQ cocktail” (that costs less than $100) has enabled us to prevent patients from being admitted to the hospital,
as well as help those patients that are hospitalized. The key is giving the HCQ cocktail early, within the first five to seven days of the disease.
We, the undersigned, urge your rapid employment of the plan presented in this letter.
A disturbing look into how the New York medical system handled Covid patients --
"UNDERCOVER EPICENTER NURSE"- INTERVIEW WITH ERIN MARIE OLSZEWSKI
Erin the nurse versus the new resident , TM 8.06
Midazolam at quadruple the recommended infusion rate?... OK under the Covid standards.
Please tell me of one / ANY medicine that has had a comprehensive and widely agreed upon RCT outcome that shows indisputable, positive COVID effect! Please provide what RCT evidence your refer to above that is widely agreed upon and without major error or dispute?
Your obsession with RCT is simply not well placed here. Why do you not disparage Remedisvir like HCQ? Are you willing to say that it SHOULD DEFINITELY be used because of RCT and those RCT are worthi the paper they are written on?
I will take front line worker support, HUGE observational evidence, a significant number of other countries formal approval, a seemingly reasonable theory of why it works, availability over DOING NOTHING as HCQ is not dangerous if handled properly.It was prescribed over 5,600,000 times in 2017 alone! Yes, that is 5 million plus! Yet it is deadly?
Everyone wants to have a treatment. throughout history, doctors have given treatments that actually harm patients, with doctors and patients convinced this is helping. I think the main difference in attitude between most on this board (and me, initially) and the medical establishment is that medics now - the research ones who look back at effectiveness - have had their fingers burnt a lot and are very cautious about letting people push treatments even for emergency use as now.
COVID is not like a broken leg: the same for everyone, you can see how bad it is, you can measure time till it is mended and observe differences easily.
The variability between patients is enormous. Most recover quickly. Some don't. A few die. The exact percentages here (around 0.8% die of those infected) vary a lot, regardless of treatment, with external factors: age, sex, race, even the severity of the initila dose.
Front line workers are not in any position to work out whether a drug works. Researchers, reviewing hospital records, can do retrospective studies using complex stats, trying to match patients. As we have seen, these are highly unreliable. They are especially bad for technical reasons in the case of COVID, because the relationship between age and severity is very strong and highly nonlinear. You need a lot of patients, and the right stats, just to get rid of unintended correlations with age. That is why RCT results are even more necessary to work out what works for COVID than for other things.
And that is also why working out what is good treatment is so difficult.
Mostly, in this situation, doctors will be willing to try anything, in a trial, in the hope it might work. HCQ has been tested 10X more than anything else, with (now) lots of data from RCTs showing that it does not help, and on balance slightly harms, hospitalised patients.
Remdesivir has very little data (that I've seen). I agree it was pushed through as "approved" on minimal evidence (like HCQ in France). Maybe that is big pharma influence. Either we will end up with better evidence, or it should get taken of the approved list fairly soon. The difference with HCQ is that we do not have lots of high quality negative data on it.
THH
CNN posts plenty of information about people opposed to vaccine, without mentioning conspiracy theories. They have posted plenty of direct statements from such people. They also have unbiased reports and direct quotes about HCQ. You can learn as much about HCQ and the controversy from CNN as from any other mainstream medium that I know of.
People often confuse left vs right bias, with factual content.
All media will take a political line left/right/middle, and use this to alter the balance of their reporting. You have to make value judgments when describing things. One person's left (or right) will be another person's "middle of the road" unbiassed.
Here is a great visual representation. The point is you want near the top, and it does not matter whether left/right/middle. It is true that politics away from the middle tends also to be mixed with less reliable reporting but in principle that need not be so.
CNN is not too bad, but not great. CNN web a lot better than CNN TV. Fox TV News is quite a lot worse, Fox web news better than TV. Personally I don't like TV as way to get news - it tends to have less info and more emotive content (images and music). I listen to BBC R4 news in preference to BBC 24 hours TV news. That is also why I don't much like the YouTube stuff posted here. If you want the facts instead of the PR go for written reports.
If you want to be well informed the key thing is the factual content. Is there lots of it? Are the claims made well supported, or completely unsupported. And if you want political information (e.g. what is a fair judgement of Trump's effectiveness as OPUS) you should be reading well informed stuff from the centre, or from both left and right. Personally I can't stand Trump's character and style. In terms of action, I can see how someone with a more right-wing philosophy might like much of what he does. I also note that the "old-style" Republicans see him as dangerous and unsuited in character in the same way I do.
The conspiracy theory stuff, whether left or right wing, is not factually supported. Otherwise, given its sensationalist content, it would be headline news everywhere - not conspiracy theories!
The difference with HCQ is that we do not have lots of high quality negative data on it.
When will you sue the British doctors that administered deadly HCQ doses that is the base for your FUD you continue to post???
Of course this question is rhetorical as you behave like a concentration camp doctor that likes to kill patients with placebos to get your pay-back RCT...
Or could it be that a teacher for circuit design simply has no clue of Medicine, Biology ??
Then why do you continue to post criminal nonsense??
The RCT evidence on use of HCQ in hospitalised (=> not early stage) patients is that it harms, slightly. Certainly no evidence it does good.
Please show us a serious correct study that gave this result with HCQ,Zinc plus Doxycycline??
Since my doctors have been banned from giving any propholactic HCQ or Ivermectin, what does THH suggest I take? I
Why ask the worst FUD-ER ??...
Early first day help : Bitter orange juice - Hesperidin! https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202006.0321/v1
Early treatment: Zink + HCQ (or Sutherlandia+Sceletium), after day 2 add Doxycycline. If short of breath add Heparin and Ivermectin.
For prevention: Quercetin, Zinc,vitamin C,D. Orange juice...
Just becomes someone does not fear a situation, that does not mean there is nothing to fear. Lots of foolish people in the U.S. go to bars and carouse. Unless a vaccine comes along soon, millions of them will end up in hospitals, fighting for their live...
You don't understand this disease : Most people (>80%) are immune. But the CoV-19 virus is far more infectious than everything we know. Even a herd immunity with 95% will no be enough to stop it. So forget any vaccine to stop it! Most vaccines work only up to 95%.
The death target for the USA is about 300'000 - not Millions - based on Sweden outcome.
You should ask why the criminal US government is not providing the correct medication to all the sick people? Did you know that trump, takes Ivermectin (Soolantra) all day??
