Quote from Roseland67

Everyday Alan?

Do they quarantine the entire city for 2 weeks and let no one in or out, or do they test everyone that enters?

This is China (now - HK has pretty much lost its independence, such as it was). China, I'm sure, will test every one going in and track them too - if it wants to push HK to zero virus status like the rest of China. Worth noting that since China is free they do not need to test travellers from china to HK. I'm sure they are already testing everyone HK -> China.

Mass testing and tracking those tested reliably is the way to beat this virus. It requires efficient fast test capacity, and a willingness to interfere with your population's freedom just a bit more than most Western countries will countenance.

This virus has political repercussions which are unsettling and I think not yet fully understood. the bargain with government is that citizens give up some freedom in return for some benefits. The question is: how much?

I'm not saying this advocating an authoritarian government. I am asking which freedoms are worth what? We see the same question asked over internet freedom? I don't think anyone knows the answers yet.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Worth noting that since China is free they do not need to test travellers from china to HK.

This is what China tells the world: In fact there are many regions that still afford quarantine. May be you should ask some Chinese friends that still have relatives in China that need to travel a lot...

Corona will sooner or alter kill China's economy as they never will get something like herd immunity...

Quote from Wyttenbach

This is what China tells the world: In fact there are many regions that still afford quarantine. May be you should ask some Chinese friends that still have relatives in China that need to travel a lot...

Corona will sooner or alter kill China's economy as they never will get something like herd immunity...

Sigh. of course, just as in NZ - another COVID--free country, any region that has any local cases will be quarantined. Maintaining COVID-free status requires continual vigilance and therefore local quarantines and partial lockdowns.

China is quite open about the necessity for that? Why would they not be.

For example: https://www.theguardian.com/wo…ses-linked-to-food-market

THH

Quote from Wyttenbach

Corona will sooner or alter kill China's economy as they never will get something like herd immunity...

Not if a vaccine is deployed. Every expert says it is very likely a vaccine will be deployed, probably in 6 months to a year.

https://munkdebates.com/podcast/swedish-model

In a world where shutdowns and quarantines have become the norm, Sweden stands out for choosing a pandemic strategy that is markedly different than its peer nations. In Sweden, bars, restaurants, public spaces, and most significantly, elementary schools have continued to operate since COVID-19 began its spread through the country last March. The Swedish model for fighting the pandemic does not enforce quarantines for infected households let alone entire cities and counties. Mask wearing and social distancing are entirely voluntary. Supporters of the Swedish model argue that its strength lies in being sustainable over the long haul, grounded in the recognition that the virus will be with us for many years. Critics say this strategy has come at way too high a price. Almost 6,000 citizens have died from the virus, one of the highest per capita death rates in the world. At the same time immunity has not significantly increased, and the economy is not faring much better than countries enforcing stricter policies. They fear that without a complete rethink of its pandemic strategy the country is headed for a public health disaster in the autumn.

SHARE:

Quote from Alan Smith

sam12

Please don't keep posting 'naked links' - I added a quote from the article you linked- people want to know what a link is about before they click on it.

Will do Alan?

I guess not everyone is as

curious as I am to find out by clicking the link.

Quote from Alan Smith

https://www.nature.com/article…39373-91ddd34d75-44567417

How many people has the coronavirus killed? Researchers are struggling to tally mortality statistics as the pandemic rages. Here’s how they gauge the true toll of the coronavirus outbreak

It is a strange world. I went to my doctor last week for a 6 month check up. I wore my mask in and the front office person had her's on. She took my temp with a "touchless" infra-red thermometer. It showed my temperature as 96.4! No way was that thing accurate. I then waited in the office for a few minutes, where the waiting room chairs had every other chair marked as "do not sit". So people were sitting in every other chair, which means they were about 2 feet apart at the most.

I then was called into the patient room where my weight was taken ( ) and blood pressure. The blood pressure cuff was not disinfected before or after, but I am not too sure that would have been a real problem. The doctor came in and did the usual verbal interview, check pulse, blood pressure (again), poked and prodded as usual, listened via stethoscope for various areas, all the normal stuff. Most of which the doctor was less than 1 foot away.

The doctor did not wear a mask the whole time. Strange world indeed.

Quote from Bob#2

She took my temp with a "touchless" infra-red thermometer. It showed my temperature as 96.4! No way was that thing accurate.

That is accurate. That's 35.8 deg C which is normal for one of these devices. Actually it is a little high. See:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7115295/

Quote from JedRothwell

That is accurate. That's 35.8 deg C which is normal for one of these devices. Actually it is a little high. See:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7115295/

Ok, I read the link. In conclusion it stated, quote "Hence, our study data suggested that the current brand of HIT was not accurate enough for clinical purpose."

No masks and a testing device not suitable for clinical purpose!

Strange indeed!

Quote from Bob#2

The doctor did not wear a mask the whole time

Health professionals are on a learning curve.. especially the community physicians and the nursing home staff

Its a bit different in the hospital infectious wards..PPE are a routine with TB and other respiratory diseases.

Quote from Bob#2

Ok, I read the link. In conclusion it stated, quote "Hence, our study data suggested that the current brand of HIT was not accurate enough for clinical purpose."

No masks and a testing device not suitable for clinical purpose!

Strange indeed!

That article is a bit dated (2005) and perhaps the Handheld Infrared Thermometers are better these days.

What crossed my mind is this: would a black person have skin that has higher emissivity that a white person's, and skew the results? And would makeup or skin perspiration affect emissivity significantly? I guess not much, otherwise HITs wouldn't be so widely used.

Just looked, and human skin has a surprisingly high emissivity: .98

What really surprised me was the high emissivity for ice : .97

Source : https://ennologic.com/emissivi…red-thermometer-readings/

Edit to add: The variation of normal body temperature between humans likely dwarfs skin emissivity differences anyway...

Hydroxychloroquine reduces risk of death from coronavirus by 30 percent, Italian study shows

https://www.studyfinds.org/hyd…d&utm_campaign=syndicated

“We observed that patients treated with hydroxychloroquine had a 30% lower in-hospital mortality rate compared to those not receiving this treatment,”

"looks at outcomes of 3,451 patients in 33 coronavirus-focused hospitals throughout Italy."

studies in other countries use larger doses of hydroxychloroquine. Those studies show unsuccessful results in patients. “It is interesting to note that the doses of hydroxychloroquine adopted in Italy (200 mg, twice a day) are lower than the ones used in those researches,”

A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged

A closer look at the Bradykinin hypothesis

https://elemental.medium.com/a…-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

Quote from JedRothwell

A closer look at the Bradykinin hypothesis

https://elemental.medium.com/a…-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

One good find:

it increases production of hyaluronic acid (HLA) in the lungs. HLA is often used in soaps and lotions for its ability to absorb more than 1,000 times its weight in fluid. When it combines with fluid leaking into the lungs, the results are disastrous: It forms a hydrogel, which can fill the lungs in some patients.

Most others like Vitamin D is just a confirmation of existing facts.

Dr. Mobeen Syed interviews Dr. V. Zelenko (Sept 3)

Dr. Zelenko Discusses COVID-19 Outpatient Management

Sky News Australia interviews Prof. Thomas Borody on ivermectin (Sept 2)

Ivermectin treatment 'could bring us all together by Christmas'