Covid-19 News

Quote from JedRothwell

That, on the other hand, is mind reading. Navid cannot read Fauci's mind. He has no way of knowing that Fauci does not sincerely believe what he says. He has no reason to think that Fauci, Gates or I secretly agree with him. Navid would have to find some incriminating document, tape recording, or other evidence in which Fauci says, "vaccines don't work, and we are doing this to enslave humanity" or some such thing.

If you consider a social credit score a long step towards, enslavement and what happens in China -- enslavement -- yes. I would argue though, that we are already there when they steal our wealth (through indirection) --- that is modern day enslavement. At least a third of our wealth goes to the War state. A third of our life.

Quote from JedRothwell

Obviously Gates, I and every other educated person

This is offending the educated persons! Gates has no higher education he just finished college. This might be the reason behind his very naive action.

Quote from Dr Richard

the virus will spread like wildfire throughout the population.

You missed the fact that about 80% are immune already from old corona infects. The death rate now is far below 0.1% and is further declining. But dumb politicians will need months to understand this and to adjust the measures....

Believe it or not though there is underlying science to all of this which is beyond politics and conspiracy theories. It is simple biochemistry and has been used for decades to find cures for most other illnesses What is so special about COVID that we have lost all common sense in trying to treat it? I just heard from my GP kid brother that one drunken Geordie walked into a bar in Sunderland last night and got drunk after finding out he was positive for COVID with flu symptoms. He went on to infect 50 yes FIFTY other people in that bar! No wonder they are locking down the North East of England.

Trouble is this COVID virus seems to hide in the body for long periods being able to outwit the immune system rather like HIV, so you may think you have recovered only to experience worse symptoms like kidney failure or neurological disorders later on, Nothing simple about this like saying you all have herd immunity now etc etc. or that young people or children don-t get it----there may be no symptoms now since the virus remains latent for long periods, what then kills when the immune system is compromised later by other illness or old age later. Its a minefield and we can't assume anything. We can only hope to hit it with every antiviral drug we have in our pharmacies.

Quote from Dr Richard

you may think you have recovered only to experience worse symptoms like kidney failure or neurological disorders later on

I believe there is no evidence for this interpretation.

The long-lasting issues are explained by the bradykinin hypothesis, which predicts all blood vessels to leak in severe COVID therefore damaging heart, brain, kidneys, etc and generating the wide variety of side effects shown. No hidden virus needed. There is now I think quite a lot of supporting evidence for this.

Quote from Wyttenbach

This is offending the educated persons! Gates has no higher education he just finished college.

He is highly educated. I have read his columns and blog, and I know people who worked with him, so I am sure of that. He did not finish college. On the other hand, the college he did not finish was Harvard. In any case, I know people who never went to college who are far better educated than most people. And I know some ignorant people who did go to college.

Quote from Wyttenbach

This might be the reason behind his very naive action.

Gates has been described in many ways, but naive is not among them. It is not naive to go along with what every public health agency in the world recommends. It might conceivably be wrong, but it is not naive or stupid. It is, as I said, conventional. Gates and I have no objection to being called conventional stick-in-the mud conformists when it comes to the scientific consensus. Except with regard to cold fusion. And -- as I have often said -- when you look closely, you will see that we actually support the informed consensus, and our opponents support Wikipedia nonsense.

Quote from Wyttenbach

You missed the fact that about 80% are immune already from old corona infects.

I missed that because it is not a fact. It is your opinion. No credible agency, researcher or doctor says that.

Quote from JedRothwell

Navid could only know that if he could read our minds, which no one can do.

Don’t be so sure. It may be the explanation for his paranoia...

Quote from JedRothwell

I missed that because it is not a fact. It is your opinion. No credible agency, researcher or doctor says that.

You missed it obviously. We linked the German paper in this thread. They also analyzed 10 year old blood conserves and found the same immune response against CoV-19. There are about a dozen of papers out there dealing with classic corona cross immunity. This cross immunity has about the same strength as a vaccination. But a large initial dose can infect all people also vaccinated ones!

Without this cross immunity we would see the same death rate (10%) as with SARS!

Dr Richard, glad to see you back posting. The real question should be how to prevent. As THH has just mentioned., New data is pointing to a Bradykinin response. I looked into this a while back and found a vitamin d deficenccy will lead to a Bradykinin storm. It seems vitamin D plays a major role in immune system health. The WHO has issued warnings for over 20 years. Vitamin D deficenccy is associated with every major organ n the body. Topping that off the sun entered a solar minimum in late 2019. 1.1 billion people world wide are vitamin D deficiet , might explain a lot. I hope you research this as your opinion on this is important to me thanks

Quote from Wyttenbach

Without this cross immunity we would see the same death rate (10%) as with SARS!

Why would cross immunity help with covid but not with SARS?

Quote from Zeus46

Why would cross immunity help with covid but not with SARS?

I had the same question!

May be with SARS+ we will (soon?) get an answer. Luckily with SARS the containment worked. Basically because it didn't had the AIDS add-ons with the optimal ACE-2 fit, what now makes CoV-19 highly infectious. Some papers make claim that 1 virus is enough to induce AIDS some see a limit at 10. I would stay with 1. We do not yet have any numbers for CoV-19, what anyway will be difficult as all people once had contact with classic corona.

A study from Boston University on vitamin D and covid 19 claiming people vitamin D deficient 54% more likely to get covid 19.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2…boston-university-doctor/

San Diego border area community excellent frontline results

hydroxychloroquine triple therapy 1700 patients... zero deaths

TM 4.52

Q. >>>>>>>>>>Of those 1700 patients that you say have been cured

did every one of those patients get the hydroxychloroquine- zpac treatment?

BT. "not every single one

like i said there were the kids in those age groups we did not prescribe it

because it's not indicated for kids right

as well as pregnancy we did not give those to those patients

but we did give them the zinc and zithromax

to help the other side of the the disease process

Q. >>>>>>>>>>>As as we get closer to vaccines

will the hydroxychloroquine conversation go away ?

or will it still be part of your quiver of treatments?

BT. "i believe so

because you know i i'm not convinced that vaccines are 100 percent

you know if you look at RNA viruses, not all RNA viruses have vaccines

we don't know the efficacy of the vaccine itself

time will tell on that

Q.>>>>all right so

what's the flow of traffic right now as it relates to patients

are you seeing as many Covid19 patients who require your treatment?

BT. "no we're actually seeing a dramatic decrease in the amount of patients .we went from over almost 1100 cases

active at one point about four weeks ago

to now, down to 430 today and and just the background

Q.>>>>are we talking about farmers ?

Can you give us the profile of your typical patient ??

BT. "Our profile?

.we have a lot of migrant farmers out here ,we have a high food industry

we also see a high amount of border patrol agents In the correction facilities out here

so we have contracts with pretty much all the main employers out here

it's a very diverse group

so i i wouldn't say that just one particular demographic

but we are very close to mexicali so we do see

a lot of citizens that live in mexicali but come back over here for treatment

Q.>>>>>>>>>>well dr brian tyson we sure appreciate you adding your voice to the conversation

i certainly hopeyou were spared any grief that sometimes

comes for uh towards people who speakout i in favor of hydroxychloroquine

BT. "you know i always say if if i'm wrong people are still going to die

but if i'm right we're going to save thousands of lives

and that's i think the most important thing

https://www.kusi.com/el-centro…nt-for-covid-19-patients/

For those of you who are confused, about vaccines (are they really a business?), Covid (do they really want us sick?) where everything fits -- this is a good origin story of two doctors coming to their senses.

Spin-doctors and Dr. Googles - please skip this, we don't need your inane commentary. But for the rest of you, recommended.

Quote from RobertBryant

hydroxychloroquine triple therapy 1700 patients... zero deaths

Quote from RobertBryant

like i said there were the kids in those age groups we did not prescribe it

because it's not indicated for kids right

RB - did you have some intent in posting (without link) this text? Claims of < 0.1% observed mortality from COVID are not surprising if the demographic of those treated is young: your text gives no indication of median age, except this offhand reference to kids. And in this case I'm wondering even whether the "patients" have been PCR tested?

It would be more useful as evidence with more details.

Approx rule of thumb: Age 60 - 1% Age 40 0.1% Age 20 0.01% (these are +/- quite a lot, but give an idea of the way mortality varies with age).

I'd like those here who genuinely believe that HCQ is an effective COVID prophylactic treatment to review carefully this recent preprint, which approaches the issue from a different perspective and provides real hard evidence.

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2020.09.04.20187781v1

Basically, the take the whole UK population, divide all registered RA & SLE sufferers into those taking HCQ 6 months prior to COVID, and those not doing that. Look at mortality. Correct for everything else you can think of.

Results

Of 194,637 patients with RA or SLE, 30,569 (15.7%) received ≥2 prescriptions of hydroxychloroquine in the six months prior to 1 March 2020. Between 1 March 2020 and 13 July 2020, there were 547 COVID-19 deaths, 70 among hydroxychloroquine users. Estimated standardised cumulative COVID-19 mortality was 0.23% (95% CI 0.18-0.29) among users and 0.22% (95% CI 0.20-0.25) among non-users; an absolute difference of 0.008% (95% CI -0.051-0.066). After accounting for age, sex, ethnicity, use of other immunuosuppressives, and geographic region, no association with COVID-19 mortality was observed (HR 1.03, 95% CI 0.80-1.33). We found no evidence of interactions with age or other immunosuppressives. Quantitative bias analyses indicated observed associations were robust to missing information regarding additional biologic treatments for rheumatological disease. We observed similar associations with the negative control outcome of non-COVID-19 mortality. Interpretation. We found no evidence of a difference in COVID-19 mortality among patients who received hydroxychloroquine for treatment of rheumatological disease prior to the COVID-19 outbreak in England.

Methodology

We used Cox regression models with days since the index date as the timescale to estimate hazard
ratios (HRs) and 95% confidence intervals (CIs) for the association between regular
hydroxychloroquine use and COVID-19 mortality. The competing risk of death from causes other
than COVID-19 was accounted for by censoring non COVID-19 deaths; our analysis therefore
estimated cause-specific hazards.19 We sequentially adjusted for sex and age using restricted cubic
splines; for the minimal adjustment set informed by the DAG; and finally extended for all extracted
covariates listed above. Models were stratified by an indicator variable denoting patient population
(i.e., RA or SLE) and geographic region.

Comments

My naive "is it OK" test is sort of alright here. they are not using (what seems to me good) logistic multivariate regression. Instead they are using cubic splines to deal with non-linear age in a cox regression. I don't properly understand Cox regressions, but I do understand cubic splines.

What I like:

Whole population method => large sample size and less possibility of selection effects

Differential effect can be detected (similar principle to RCT, though does not remove confounders that correlate with HCQ suitability)

Would definitely pick up any prophylactic effect of HCQ if this exists at the levels given to RA sufferers - so this is new (negative) info.

This is UK: no likelihood of any political bias.

What I don't like:

I'm not knowledgable enough to understand cox regressions (that just means I cannot evaluate this so well, does not mean it is not good quality)

This is RA sufferers, so there might be something going on their that changes things? No evidence for this however.

Always possible there are errors here due to unconsidered confounding variables (as with all non-RCT data).

Why they needed to adjust for age, sex etc:

Hydroxychloroquine users were younger (median: 63 years for users, 66 years for nonusers) and more likely to be female (76% women for users; 70% for non-users); other demographic
characteristics between exposure groups were broadly similar.

So unadjusted that is a significant (50%) worse result for the non-HCQ group just based on age and sex, two factors where we well understand the relationship to mortality.

Comment on the preprint:

Paulo Portinho • 2 days ago

Hello, I could not understand how the estimated standardized cumulative death rates are 0.23% for HCQ group and 0.22% for NONHCQ group.

Deaths NONHCQ 477, sample 164.068 = 0,29%.

Deaths HCQ 70, sample 30.569 = 0,228%.

I know it is standardized, but shouldn't it be around the average number?

The standardisation get rid of the +50% non-HCQ seen in the raw data. Before anyone argues the raw data shows that HCQ works: really? You think age and sex don't affect mortality?

Quote from Navid

Spin-doctors and Dr. Googles - please skip this

OMG, Navid, you always manage to so obviously telegraph when you link to these weird cranks, that I just can't resist to google them. It would seem that you take a perverse delight in finding the biggest idiots you can, in the hope of getting some sort of reaction. Sad. (And Mark 'i like this' U, U should be ashamed).

Kelly Brogan...

• Uses the letters M.D. after her name in articles and on her website, but failed her certification with the American Board of Psychiatry.
• Also claimed to be certified by the Academy of Integrative Holistic Medicine, until they found out, and made her delete it from her website.
• Claims Germ Theory has never been proven. Therefore, germs aren’t real.* Thus COVID-19 as we know it cannot exist.
• Claims this odd illness going round was created by Bill Gates as either part of a eugenics program or as a way to force us to get vaccinated with micro-chips.
• Claims that people dying of covid-19 are actually dying of fear.
• Claims the full spectrum of anti-vaxxer BS.
• Is also an anti-5Ger, and has claimed that its the real cause of covid.
• Practises a form of 'medicine' called German New Medicine, invented by Ryke Geerd Hamer, who claimed he could cure cancer, and went to jail several times for malpractice when he couldn't. Ironically he died if cancer himself, after seeking conventional treatment.
• Says there is no link between AIDs and HIV, and that people are dying due to the medicines they receive.

* Presumably she also doesn't believe in microscopes...

I would provide some links, but there's so much stuff about her online, that thise who are interested can have the enjoyment of discovering even more of her delusional ideas. I have just barely skimmed the surface here.

Quote from Navid

My wife is a physician

Then you should ask her for a second opinion. If you dare...

Although if you want my advice, I'd keep your promotion of these cranks very quiet. Happy wife - Happy life, after all.

Quote from Navid

...and my father was a Professor of Medicine,

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere. No doubt Freud (and Jung) would have had a field day...

Fascinating Zeus, Navid has really out-done himself with that one. You know, Navid told you not to apply google search, so you have only yourself to blame. On the other hand, google search on speakers is so very much quicker than listening to long long youtube videos...

if he only took advice and started to pay attention to written stuff instead of youtube idiocy he'd have more context and be able to avoid the obvious fruitcakes?

Then maybe he'd have no-one left to quote and would need to post his own detailed arguments, with proper linked references. That would be fun to see.

THH, ? Happy wife, crack me up. You do have wit. However as for your reply to nevid maybe asking his wife to join the conversation would add some nformation to the debate. I for one would like to hear from an MD on this subject even a decenting view. It could be very interesting and revealng. So what do you say Mrs. Dr. Navid?

Quote from THHuxleynew

Basically, the take the whole UK population, divide all registered RA & SLE sufferers into those taking HCQ 6 months prior to COVID, and those not doing that. Look at mortality.

To many dilettantes do studies of all kinds. Just the first issue: People who get HCQ without having CoV-19 are obviously sick or persons at risk. To treat them as a cohort is more than fringe.

A pure sign of idiots behavior is to again post a study that just looks at HCQ, what nobody ever did recommend!

Why are proven dilettantes not able to distinguish prophylaxis after showing symptoms with prophylaxis in general ??