Quote from THHuxleynew

<long rant doing exactly what was not asked for deleted>

The argument that SARS-nCoV2 must be artificial because we can't find its immediate animal progenitor is fully blown apart by a little zoonotic history. Those bat viruses are not easy to find and isolate. Lots of bats. Lots of viruses.

The old lots and lots of stuff argument....

Yan's argument of simultaneous co-evolution of a bat virus in a pengolin; a virus that ends up creating a 10x tighter bind to the human ACE2 receptor than the pengolin one; and at the same time the simulatenous appearance of a furin cleavage site is total comedy. She made many more arguments that as a set are unleashed and this whole thing will unravel no matter how much they pay the "fact checkers", story writers, and entry-level disinformation workers.

I think we found out the truth in this exchange.

Quote from Navid

Yan's argument of simultaneous co-evolution of a bat virus in a pengolin; a virus that ends up creating a 10x tighter bind to the human ACE2 receptor than the pengolin one; and at the same time the simulatenous appearance of a furin cleavage site is total comedy. She made many more arguments that as a set are unleashed and this whole thing will unravel no matter how much they pay the "fact checkers", story writers, and entry-level disinformation workers.

pangolin - not pengolin.

Glad we are agreeing here - it is total comedy.

Basically, yan does not reference the literature (has never heard of it?) on these viruses that easily cross species. (HINT - that is why SARS-nCoV2 is now a human virus). Therefore you do not need "co-evolution" to find similar viruses in different species.

Do you want me similarly to point out the other flaws here, or shall we let it rest?

I should point out that all you have contributed to this discussion is repeating badly researched and discredited Yan arguments, and adding spin (e.g. when you make meta-comments about "entry-level disinformation worker").

Try harder perhaps? With some science? For example, you could go to the supporting literature for Yan's arguments? Oh - perhaps that would be difficult - because she does not reference most of the relevant literature so you'd have to look at it all for yourself first. Those 312 references. About 5% are relevant. You could go for it.

Your fave "entry-level disinformation worker" (can I get a pay raise now? maybe level up?) I guess I need a tougher dungeon for that.

PS - does anyone here think Navid truly believes I get paid for posting here? it would be no sillier than some of his other views. My guess is he does.

More serious argument.

Be very careful of any line of argument that says "wow - that is so unlikely - 3 different things all needed at same time to evolve this or that feature in a form that would give it fitness, chances of that are zero".

That argument has been studied extensively, and conclusively shown wrong again and again. Originally used, for example, on the mammalian eye. And yet with better gene sequencing across species we find that the various mechanisms are all developed independently for different purposes, and come together to form a proto-eye by the magic of genetic-level evolution. Mammals can do this with crossover and sexual reproduction but of course even RNA viruses can do it naturally via reassortment.

It is very unwise to bet against evolution on grounds that it is unlikely - intermediate mechanisms are discovered all the time that make apparent miracles turn into something bound to happen. Eyes, independently evolved in different branches of the evolutionary tree many times over, are a great example of this.

Perhaps the same people who took up that argument against evolution would find Yan's arguments attractive? I don't know, but they are very shaky for that reason. Which is why the serious comment on the topic views Yan's arguments as "cherry-picked examples, excluding science".

Quote from THHuxleynew

PS - does anyone here think Navid truly believes I get paid for posting here? it would be no sillier than some of his other views. My guess is he does.

The man believes in a sprawling conspiracy that claims Don T is leading a fight against satanic paedophile rings that harvest children’s pituitary hormones inside networks of secret underground tunnels.

But even so, I don’t honestly think he’s daft enough to believe that you actually get paid for practising your (our?) strange hobby.

Quote from THHuxleynew

perhaps the same people who took up that argument against evolution would find Yan's arguments attractive? I don't know, but they are very shaky for that reason.

Yan's arguments are founded in evolutionary theory. You didn't read the paper and are wasting our time.

Quote from THHuxleynew

Chief among their complaints was that the report ignored the vast body of published literature regarding what is known about how coronaviruses circulate in wild animal populations and the tendency to spill over into humans, including recent publications about the origins of SARS-CoV-2.

THHuxleynew : Citing paid idiots does not make your statements true. You should try to refute a scientific write-up with science arguments not by spin-doctor citations.

spin of spin = spin²!

Just to note: There is no published evidence for a natural evolution of the CoV-19 virus. But there are tons of papers full of nonsensical spin!

So the nonsensical spin predominates discussion - nice one Wyttenbach- we could simply say that the inventors of this virus made a slight mistake in their sequencing perhaps but are now waiting for it to evolve into a much more lethal variant and kill everyone which will probably happen around Xmas in the Northern Hemisphere? So get your Anti-Bat virus supplies in early before the pharmacies abroad run out!

Thing are really escalating out of control in the UK - the number of deaths has trebled just in one day! Absolutely shocking statistics but the general public are now 'conditioned' to accept this disaster to be normal and it is this normalisation which now enables the state to enforce dictats without any parliamentary discussion or control. This is a fascist's dream come true! And the Proud Boys in the US are given police protection as they unload automatic weapons into crowds of Black Lives Matter demonstrators. Again a fascist's dream come true! So who can really believe that there is not some element of conspiracy here?????? The next step as far as I can see is justified nuclear war, a first strike on Kin Jong Un or maybe that evil Emperor Xi Jin Ping masquerading as a communist?

Proof home-based treatment trumps the failed Fauci model

https://www.wnd.com/2020/10/pr…rumps-failed-fauci-model/

Dr. McCullough's team of experts recommend cheap, safe, FDA-approved medicines – HCQ with azithromycin or doxycycline, possibly ivermectin or colchicine, inhaled budesonide or the more potent oral prednisone, anticoagulants, supplemental zinc, vitamin C and vitamin D, and home oxygen concentrators.

………………….

note: the above is from the article and the title is "Proof" not that I am saying it is that, its just the title of the article.

Off topic but apparently elections can also kill you.

Cardiovascular hospitalization 1.62 times higher in the two days immediately after the 2016 presidential election.

Quote from oldguy

Proof home-based treatment trumps the failed Fauci model

AAPS is ummm ... not a main-stream physicians group. Ain't saying they're WRONG ... but I wouldn't bet my life on their recommendations.

From her bio ... specializing in preventive and climacteric medicine
Climacteric !!?? having extreme and far-reaching implications or results; critical.

Peak Prosperity - Oct-13

Combo Therapy Works! And another U-Turn on the W.H.O. bus?

- WHO backtracks on lockdowns

- Is the "2nd Wave" just a delayed part of "1st Wave"?

- Study: Combined Ivermectin+Azithromycin+Cholecaliferol treatment

- Study: Combined Ivermectin+Doxycycline+Zinc+Vitamin D3 treatment

Medcram - Oct-13

Would eating a handful of walnuts reduce viral replication?

Coronavirus Update 112: Linoleic Acid; Vaccines; UK COVID 19 Data

History will be re-written for 2020 ....

It will be called the Viking Syndrome...... Jeff

Hurray record 2x+ ! Switzerland has beaten USA! 2833 new CoV-19 cases for 8.5 mio. people - would be more than 110'000 for USA.

But the average death rate is terribly low. But CoV-19 is reaching the older again as the number of infections among age >80 did rise 3x stronger than average. So you can guess why there are some deaths.

https://www.srf.ch/news/schwei…ona-zahlen-in-der-schweiz

Germany faces far more deaths with 5x less new cases. So in reality death rate is 10x larger than here.

So we are all on the Sweden track now!

Quote from Wyttenbach

Hurray record 2x+ ! Switzerland has beaten USA! 2833 new CoV-19 cases for 8.5 mio. people - would be more than 110'000 for USA.

But the average death rate is terribly low. But CoV-19 is reaching the older again as the number of infections among age >80 did rise 3x stronger than average. So you can guess why there are some deaths.

https://www.srf.ch/news/schwei…ona-zahlen-in-der-schweiz

Germany faces far more deaths with 5x less new cases. So in reality death rate is 10x larger than here.

So we are all on the Sweden track now!

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The idea of locking up tight everyone who is over 60 (female) or 55 (male) and letting young people catch COVID is not ideal - but still quite attractive.

The problem with this strategy is that older people often live with younger ones, and also may look after grandchildren, etc. It is difficult to lock up the older 1/3 of the country!

Prior exposure to common coronaviruses reduces COVID-19 severity --

Less severe course of COVID-19 is associated with elevated levels of antibodies against seasonal human coronaviruses OC43 and HKU1 (HCoV OC43, HCoV HKU1)

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2020.10.12.20211599v1

An inexpensive quickly available alternative to COVID-19 vaccines?

Lou Pagnucco - so we need to expose ourselves to some seasonal betacoronaviruses which probably abound amongst schoolchildren. as we enter the winter period. This might be a lifesaver and make the search for a vaccine redundant. Infect everyone with the common cold!

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/1…paign=later-linkinbio-cnn

Type O blood having less issues 🤔.