Not sure where to post but this thread is it.
It al looks really convincing-what is missing is publication of their data in some rigorous scientific journal to really put such low temperature plasma fusion on the map so again mainstream physicists would take notice and money would flow into the project that is being wasted on ITER.
I understand the sentiment and it makes sense from a scientist's view. As a businessman, however, I disagree on this course. If SAFIRE really has something here, and the project is being funded (or overfunded--"oversubscribed" is the term the team used in reference to investor interest), what incentive is there to bang your head against the giant immovable wall that is academia? Why fight tooth and nail, getting rejection after rejection from mainstream journals, just to get published? Does SAFIRE really need the blessing of a group of scientists who so strongly believe "hot fusion" is the holy grail that they're willing to stand by and watch tens of billions get dumped into the ITER money pit? The only way these people come-to-Jesus is if they see a reactor in action. Even then they might not believe it. Who is SAFIRE trying to convince and/or compel by spending precious tens or hundreds of hours writing a paper instead of devoting every available resource to building a commercial reactor?
I say build the device and let the chips fall where they may. But waiting around for mainstream science to give SAFIRE its blessing would be a colossal mistake, in my opinion.
Academia has explanatory power after the fact
but innovation is not its forte..
build the engine first.. like Faraday's electric motor
Why don't you invite Monty to visit and answer some member's questions? He did it on ECW awhile back.
Why don't you invite Monty to visit and answer some member's questions? He did it on ECW awhile back.
Well, like I said, as an investor I would prefer that the team spend every waking hour getting this thing commercialized, not fielding questions that he's unlikely to be able to provide specific answers to due to proprietary concerns. But that's my purely selfish reason. I understand that everyone who's even peripherally involved would love to hear more from the team.
As someone who's already bought in I don't need to be convinced of anything regarding the potential value of the project. I just want them to get it done. The more time passes, the more likely it is the project gets derailed, in my estimation.
It would be interesting to discuss potential outcomes, however. SAFIRE could go the way of the electric car--i.e. being bought out and buried (literally, in the case of the cars!). Or it could be sabotaged. It could be banned as a technology too dangerous to allow in the public arena. It could fizzle or be stopped in so many ways. My biggest fear is not that the science isn't real but that the project will be infiltrated or dragged out for decades like Brilliant Light Power.
Well, like I said, as an investor I would prefer that the team spend every waking hour getting this thing commercialized, not fielding questions that he's unlikely to be able to provide specific answers to due to proprietary concerns.
It might actually be useful - you would be amazed who is included in our readership.
Bob Greenyer is slowly releasing some really interesting imagery of a project he calls VEGA and, at least at face value, has a lot of similarities with the SAFIRE project, showing self organizing double layers (albeit these seem to spin) and plasma tufts.
VEGA reactor images:
SAFIRE images for visual comparison.
Display MoreFor discussion here:
Posting at E-cat World site on alternative explanation how Aureon energy production is caused was posted.
In particular this paragraph seems interesting:
I was triggered by the suggestion of the presence of superconductivity. Similar is occurring with Ultra Dense Hydrogen/Deuterium.
Does superconductivity a crucial role in LENR?
In the the case of UDD/UDH, when triggered by e.g. photons, this matter releases high energy particles, probably because of breaking superconductive state of local matter. In particular these high energy particles could potentially cause fusion/transmutations.
So, how reasonable is the suggestion of the presence of a superconductive layer in the Aureon plasma I wonder.
The coherent matter wave forming and sustaining within the plasma seems to be the key. For a down the rabbit hole trip you might want to take a look at the new site of Bob Greenyer. Remote view.icu
The coherent matter wave forming and sustaining within the plasma seems to be the key. For a down the rabbit hole trip you might want to take a look at the new site of Bob Greenyer. Remote view.icu
Bose-Einstein condensates do act superconductive. Might make sense and should be measurable in Aureon´s case. I did not see any concrete measurements yet that confirms this.
Rob Woudenberg , is the self organizing properties of the plasmas which create these coherent states, SAFIRE project has a video of an instant disappearing tungsten probe (it simply vanished between two frames of the video), they later changed to a much thicker one that survived the trip into the plasma but turned to a sponge and was full of transmutations. I can try to fetch those videos, if you are interested, they are from around 2017 and during 2020 Bob did a video where he shows those specific segments.
edit to add the link to the MFMP video where this is commented. The original videos are also linked in the description.
This basically boils down to the question what matter state would be able to vaporise a thin Tungsten rod.
To vaporise this fast, extremely high (eddy) currents are required. Another indication that a superconductive space could be present. There is however lack of a light flash in response to vaporisation.
Another option is of course that the Tungsten tip is simply falling out of it´s holder to make it disappear.
This basically boils down to the question what matter state would be able to vaporise a thin Tungsten rod.
To vaporise this fast, extremely high (eddy) currents are required. Another indication that a superconductive space could be present. There is however lack of a light flash in response to vaporisation.
Another option is of course that the Tungsten tip is simply falling out of it´s holder to make it disappear.
Tungsten vaporising shouldn't be surprising concidering the fact that it is a transition metal with, in addition, unstable isotope fractions. Hydrogen will cause beta emmission and pico-chemical energies that should completely vaporize small bits. It would be most interesting if they find isotopes similar to it's decay chain, and "plus one" pico-hydrides analogous to larger isotopes. Confirming importantly, along with interesting.
From Ecat World site an update on Aureon investments:
(source unknown).
February 11, 2021
To our Aureon Community,
Aureon Energy Ltd, has made tremendous progress with the SAFIRE project, despite the continuing challenges that 2020 has brought.
First, I want to thank you all for sharing our vision and supporting us with your personal investment. We have raised over $2MM with the SAFE investment opportunity, almost 10 times our original goal of 250K. This has allowed us to do more tests and experiments with the SAFIRE reactor with exciting results.
In our latest experiments, we found transmutation occurring not only on the anode but all through the sample. Furthermore, the manganese that is being made in the atmosphere has been discovered to be depositing onto the cathode! Keep in mind, there is no manganese in SAFIRE. This shows the predictions by the Wal Thornhill – EU are correct in that transmutation occurs in the Sun’s atmosphere.
We also produced a new video in September that illustrates more effectively the vision of Aureon for energy and remediation of nuclear waste. This also allows investors a virtual SAFIRE reactor behind the scenes tour without having to travel.
Since the updated video was released, we have had several exciting meetings with private equity investors that have reached out to us regarding our ‘A’ round of financing. We confirmed a tremendous amount of capital available and flowing into the market of clean-tech like SAFIRE, and Aureon is at the ‘tip of the spear’.
As you know, there are three areas of development Aureon energy has initially identified nuclear remediation, electrical energy generation, and material transmutation. The positive feedback we received from these meetings helped us prioritize our initial efforts into remediation, and increase the amount of capital we can raise.
We have increased our ‘A’ round from $20MM to $50MM to build a hot nuclear waste remediation reactor prototype. The additional capital will allow us to compress the project from 5 years to 36 months. Creating the remediation reactor first will also yield the designs, costs, and outputs for an energy and material transmutation reactor.
We are not doing any further work in the SAFIRE lab right now. All our efforts are focused on building out the project plan, budget, and private placement memorandum. Investors are keenly anticipating this opportunity!
Where all of this has brought us is that we need to close the SAFE March 31st 2021 and wrap up all the paperwork and legal no later than April 30.
If you want to invest more you can and there is no limit, but you will need to download the latest SAFE document for the correct date. Also, if you have already invested there is no need to fill out the qualification as an accredited investor.
Things are moving quickly now and we will be giving you updates quarterly so expect another update in April.
With best and warm regards,
Montgomery Childs
President
Aureon Energy Ltd
Currently Aureon uses SAFE investment method apparently.
The source was one of the LENR Forum team...
It´s remarkable that they prioritize a remediation reactor prototype over a transmutation reactor.
Looking at market need, I would guess that an energy reactor would be far more desired.
Maybe their view is that solving conventional nuclear energy issues (waste elimination) allows for expansion of conventional nuclear energy generation on the short term is more accepted than introducing new energy generation technologies without the new theory yet in place.
It´s remarkable that they prioritize a remediation reactor prototype over a transmutation reactor.
Looking at market need, I would guess that an energy reactor would be far more desired.
Maybe their view is that solving conventional nuclear energy issues (waste elimination) allows for expansion of conventional nuclear energy generation on the short term is more accepted than introducing new energy generation technologies without the a new theory yet in place.
They seem to think this as a huge market, which on the surface I doubt anyone would disagree, and should be a great opportunity for nuclear waste remediation.
However, I don’t know if that is really the case due to regulatory restrictions, bureaucracy can make anything that is technically feasible, but not wanted by politicians, impracticable.
Maybe their view is that solving conventional nuclear energy issues (waste elimination) allows for expansion of conventional nuclear energy generation on the short term is more accepted than introducing new energy generation technologies without the a new theory yet in place.
Got it in one, I suspect.
It's probably a loose thought but when I compare the hollow electrode of their patent application from Montgomery William Childs regarding a hollow electrode pointing at applying gas flow through the metal layer of such electrode I see some resemblance with the current concept of this Clean Planet patent application where a gas flow through a (multi-layer) metal membrane is claimed to generate excess heat.
Aureon:
Clean Planet:
Both parties have nickel and palladium mentioned in their claims regarding such ´membrane´ construction.
In Aureon´s case the hollow electrode is part of the plasma generation and thus may receive charged plasma particles which may act as a trigger to activate a heat generating process at or in the membrane of that electrode.
In the case of Clean Planet the activation seems to be related to a certain temperature level (which may generate IR radiation that could trigger the heat generating process.
Display MoreIt's probably a loose thought but when I compare the hollow electrode of their patent application from Montgomery William Childs regarding a hollow electrode pointing at applying gas flow through the metal layer of such electrode I see some resemblance with the current concept of this Clean Planet patent application where a gas flow through a (multi-layer) metal membrane is claimed to generate excess heat.
Aureon:
Clean Planet:
Both parties have nickel and palladium in mentioned in their claims regarding such ´membrane´ construction.
In Aureon´s case the hollow electrode is part of the plasma generation and thus may receive charged plasma particles which may act as a trigger to activate a heat generating process at or in the membrane of that electrode.
In the case of Clean Planet the activation seems to be related to a certain temperature level (which may generate IR radiation that could trigger the heat generating process.
In a way yes, but you have to take in account that in the SAFIRE reaction there’s a voltage and self organizing plasma where all the “magic” happens.
The question I ask myself is whether there is too much fuzz about these self-organizing plasmas.
It's clear that they use a cocktail of different gasses, so there are charged gas ions present that each have their specific atomic weight, hence they organize in different layers IMHO.
The difference in atomic weight cause different levels of impact to the matter at the hollow electrode.
There might also be a catalytic effect of some of these gas ions.
If anyone has a better explanation on the essence to generated excess heat out of these so called ´self organizing plasmas´ I am curious to read them here.
