Covid-19, Your health and that of your community

Anti bat virus spray ingredients: Avigan, HCQ, AZM, Zn, ciclesonide, and a soupcon of remdesivir and lopinavir. Should send those nasties running!

Advice from the Doctor about Meds.

Seems good basic advice should just add in why HCQ is prophylactic ie that it has a very long half life in the body once ingested (30 days). So malaria protection occurs with one weekly 500 mg dose, 400 mg then 200 mg to follow is probably appropriate once infected with coronavirus. But once a week 500mg HCQ may well be sufficient for uninfected prophylaxis as has been demonstrated for malaria. Which I think is why malarial regions have so far had unusually extremely low rates of infection. It is concentrated 1000 X intracellular within endosomes etc. so a therapeutic 10 uM concentration probably persists for a long time following a single dose. Should be rolled out to all.health workers as Australia has had the common sense to.do. Thus tonic water with only 20uM/L quinine probably has beneficial effects.(seems to have disappeared from supermarket shelves along with loo roll and liquorice allsorts)

Quote from Dr Richard

But once a week 500mg HCQ may well be sufficient for uninfected prophylaxis

Recent lab studies did show that it will not prevent you from an infection! It just prevents you from turning bad! Keep it until you really have it!

Wait for the clinical data from Australia about this, one can't be sure from in vitro data. My brother has been thinking of using it on a weekly basis since he has used it before travelling abroad. The hazmat protection is totally inadequate for frontline NHS workers so a weekly dose of HCQ would be a godsend. It's works for malaria so why not for coronavirus?

Quote from Dr Richard

Thus tonic water with only 20uM/L quinine

what is your views on just plain quinine?

Quote from Shane D.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news…on-last-week?srnd=premium

Economy killing jobless numbers the past 2 weeks here in the US. Much worse than anticipated. This is unfortunately, only a taste of what is to come. The well funded, deep pocket companies have been waiting to see how long this will last before furloughing, or firing employees. These jobs numbers will probably be scary enough to force many to start the process now, to save capital.

Before this report, my friends at the airlines were telling me the furloughs would start in June, unless something drastic changed. At Delta they are talking about 5000 of their 14,000 pilots being let go. Now, after the report, that may happen sooner, as it appears even if the shut downs end May 1st (and they probably will not), a recession, and possibly depression is in the cards. Not sure how a government bailout will play into this.

Very tough to stay in business in this environment. Tough times ahead folks. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and there is no easy way out. Whatever direction we go, there will be plenty of dead people....whether that be from the virus, or fallout from the recession. Choose your poison as the saying goes.

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There aren’t really any good immediate options over the next month or two. So we are where we are. The train simply left the station on this. I heard one economist say that in the U.S. we are now essentially undergoing a 2008 level Great Recession every 10 days.

I think we could endure this type of hit for a couple of months. But the problem is the virus will still be out in the population several months from now. So how do we open society back up without having tens of millions of people getting sick soon after? A few things I am hoping for:

1. Much more widespread testing. If we have the ability to test groups of people immediately we can hopefully stamp out the virus before big outbreaks occur. Every State needs to form testing SWAT teams to be on the ready to jump on a hotspot and test everyone who was possibly exposed.

2. Some kind of working antiviral cocktail. It will likely take a combination of several drugs. But doctors need to find a combo of antivirals that works to keep people off ventilators. We know a few drug candidates already. But this is easier said than done. Look at the HIV outbreak in the 80’s. It took over 10 years for Doctors to get to a working antiviral cocktail. And I believe it was initially a cocktail of around 20 pills per day for people to take. Now they have it down to one pill. So it’s a process of improving it.

3. Some kind of national understanding that people should wear a mask and gloves in public situations. It may take some time for people to get comfortable with this. They don’t even need to be N95 masks. My family has ordered them and I will wear them in public (and that is not something I ever thought I would feel comfortable doing). But I think we will accept more and more that everyone wearing them is part of the way back.

Gov. Cuomo is now saying that they have a 6 day supply of ventilators left. It will simply be a terrible situation if Doctors have to start making choices about who gets one.

Hopefully they can find them fast.

https://thehill.com/policy/hea…tor-stockpile-in-six-days

Quote from Shane D.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news…on-last-week?srnd=premium

Economy killing jobless numbers the past 2 weeks here in the US. Much worse than anticipated. This is unfortunately, only a taste of what is to come. The well funded, deep pocket companies have been waiting to see how long this will last before furloughing, or firing employees. These jobs numbers will probably be scary enough to force many to start the process now, to save capital.

Before this report, my friends at the airlines were telling me the furloughs would start in June, unless something drastic changed. At Delta they are talking about 5000 of their 14,000 pilots being let go. Now, after the report, that may happen sooner, as it appears even if the shut downs end May 1st (and they probably will not), a recession, and possibly depression is in the cards. Not sure how a government bailout will play into this.

Very tough to stay in business in this environment. Tough times ahead folks. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and there is no easy way out. Whatever direction we go, there will be plenty of dead people....whether that be from the virus, or fallout from the recession. Choose your poison as the saying goes.

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I think Trump will do everything he

can think of to save the Econmy.

That is good for us Canadians since

we are so intertwined with US economy.But like you say it will

be tough sledding.

https://apple.news/AyHVUNWptTWmvmKL8E0rGqg

oldguy .....quinine is fine it's the first antimalarial drug ever used for centuries extracted from cinchona bark. Chloroquine and HCQ replaced quinine because of lower toxicity and easier to syntheize. Just how effective it is against COVID remains to be determined, all these analogues including mefloquine, primaquine and metabolites desethylHCQ all need to be screened in the same way as Wang et al did for CQ and remdesivir amongst others. Followed by in vivo studies. Just remember not to take too much, it concentrates intracellularly giving it a long half life so for prophylaxis for a single dose of 500 mg for week may be sufficient as it is against malaria. Or stick to tonic water, then up the dose of quinine if you develop a fever. I think natural supplies of cinchona bark are beginning to run dry on e-bay too. But really you should be able to obtain a prescription for HCQ from your doctor this is getting ridiculous and dangerous. A doctor died here in Leicester and this should never ever have happened. We have known about this since 2Feb for Christ's sake. I've been ranting on about it continuously since then contacted the BBC, Trump, all over Facebook & Google but it takes someone !like Elon Musk to tweet it before the message starts to sink in. We're getting there after how many unnecessary deaths though?

Straight answer - how close is the molecular structure of quinine to HCQ look it up on Wikipedia then decide for yourself after reading all the information. My guess is that it would be slightly less effective, but that is only a guess. From my own knowledge of pharmacology it's a question of establishing structural functional relationships. General rule similar molecular structure similar effects but different potency and toxicity. Intuitively I 'd say use it if there is no other alternative. Same for azithromycin which has a whole lot of other analogues like clarithromycin etc. It's not rocket science.

Quote from Dr Richard

oldguy .....quinine is fine it's the first antimalarial drug ever used for centuries extracted from cinchona bark. Chloroquine and HCQ replaced quinine because of lower toxicity and easier to syntheize. Just how effective it is against COVID remains to be determined, all these analogues including mefloquine, primaquine and metabolites desethylHCQ all need to be screened in the same way as Wang et al did for CQ and remdesivir amongst others. Followed by in vivo studies. Just remember not to take too much, it concentrates intracellularly giving it a long half life so for prophylaxis for a single dose of 500 mg for week may be sufficient as it is against malaria. Or stick to tonic water, then up the dose of quinine if you develop a fever. I think natural supplies of cinchona bark are beginning to run dry on e-bay too. But really you should be able to obtain a prescription for HCQ from your doctor this is getting ridiculous and dangerous. A doctor died here in Leicester and this should never ever have happened. We have known about this since 2Feb for Christ's sake. I've been ranting on about it continuously since then contacted the BBC, Trump, all over Facebook & Google but it takes someone !like Elon Musk to tweet it before the message starts to sink in. We're getting there after how many unnecessary deaths though?

the best (really the only) definite evidence published so far, and although not yet formally peer reviewed you will note it has been properly reviewed, is this well conducted 31 + 31 randomised control study:

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten…101/2020.03.22.20040758v2

(review from Sinai immunol review project as comment)

Now, although this is relatively small, it is large enough for the outcomes to be statistically significant at much better than 0.05 level. The important outcome - fraction of patients progressing to more serious disease, is at slightly less than 0.05 level. Nevertheless this is enough to be strong evidence given what was 4 (control) vs 0 (active) branch and the other evidence.

And this was for HCQ at 400mg/day for 5 days only, a relatively low cumulative dose.

This is evidence that this, taken when mild symptoms first appear, is effective. Maybe not useful when symptoms have progressed. And certainly more work is needed to optimise dose and determine when it is most effective, or which other drugs work with it.

Anyway I'm sure we will get more evidence soon, and also comparative evidence for AZT + HCQ vs HCQ.

That one paper is why I'm now much more strongly on Dr. R's side of this debate. Sure, it is not yet certain, but when dealing with the chances of progression vs the chances of heart problems due to elongated QT, at this dosage, it will be the choice oin most cases and could reasonably be prescribed base of medical history to people at home with statistically higher COVID risk and positive COVID test or strong circumstantial evidence from contacts and symptoms. IMHO - caveat I'm not a doctor, check with your doctor.

Video review (looks a respectable source)

https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/tw…Virology+-+MP3+Edition%29

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A Scientist different view on CV situation.

sam12 If you depend on sh*t like this, you will be subject to Darwin's Law.

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I think we have also to stress the need for eye protection, but there are not much alternatives. Specially for people that, like me, are in need of optic glasses.

Curbina I can't comment on adding stuff to existing masks. If these are N95 masks, it seems like a poor idea. As far as eye protection is concerned, you can overlay your corrective glasses with a safety goggle or "shooting glasses" intended for gun enthusiasts. These are large, curved, and made of polycarbonate. In the US, available for less than $20 from Amazon... or at least they were. Not sure now.

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I think that ensuring Vitamins and maximising immune resistance by sleep reducing stress is beneficial..

Maybe. But it's sort like trying to shoot an enraged charging elephant by throwing rocks at it. It might work but it's improbable.

The one possible exception is vitamin D (some prefer specifically D3). There seems to be some rationale for using 5000-10,000 IU per day during the crisis. You can check it on Google scholar - "antiviral activity of vitamin D" would be a good start. It is not generally agreed on but has some advocates with decent reputations.

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Anti bat virus spray ingredients: Avigan, HCQ, AZM, Zn, ciclesonide, and a soupcon of remdesivir and lopinavir. Should send those nasties running!

For deity's sake! DATA OR STFU!

I just heard an interview or radio 4 of several experts including Prof Johan Neyts who deve!oped a 15 min test kit and now is screening all known medicines for clinical activity vs COVID-19. He mentioned chloroquine once, once only and seemed to be completely unaware of any of the in vitro or clinical work of DRaoult, licensing for use in France, clinical trials in Australia, widespread use in NY, large donations from Bayer to Trump and China, the president of Indonesia ordering two million doses with Avigan, mass stockpiling everywhere, available on prescription in Colorado with a positive test, or any of it. Maybe he does know but is keeping silent until WHO confirms approval. He could have said the evidence for this therapy seem very positive or something. Maybe that's the danger of over sensationalization on the net following Elon Musk's tweet and politicization since Trump became involved. No publicity then too much in too short a space of time. Crazy. I'm still sticking to the malaria story as positive evidence for it.