Interesting conversation between Chris Cuomo who has COVID-19 of moderate severity, and Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Covid-19, Your health and that of your community
- Alan Smith
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It's works for malaria so why not for coronavirus?
I don't know whether it (prophylactic HCQ) works or not, but if not, it's because malaria is caused by a plasmodium parasite and coronavirus of course, is a f*n virus! That's like trying to fix a Russian car with parts from an American one.
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And then there is this poor excuse for a human:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/r…ckdown-shoot-people-dead/
Duterte orders shoot people dead order for those who violate lock down.
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I received this email from the Medical Board of California:
Statement Regarding Improper Prescribing of Medications Related to Treatment for Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)
The California Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA) is aware of recent news and social media reports of prescribers wrongfully hoarding and prescribing for themselves and family members certain medications referenced in the media relating to the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).
Several states have recently issued emergency restrictions on how the drugs can be dispensed. Many require that medications be prescribed and dispensed only to patients with a legitimate and current medical condition. Further, the FDA recently issued an Emergency Use Authorization to allow for the use of hydroxychloroquine sulfate and chloroquine phosphate products donated by the Strategic National Stockpile for certain hospitalized patients with COVID-19.
DCA, the Medical Board of California, and the California State Board of Pharmacy remind health care professionals that inappropriately prescribing or dispensing medications constitutes unprofessional conduct in California. Prescribers and pharmacists are obligated to follow the law, standard of care, and professional codes of ethics in serving their patients and public health.
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I don't know whether it (prophylactic HCQ) works or not, but if not, it's because malaria is caused by a plasmodium parasite and coronavirus of course, is a f*n virus! That's like trying to fix a Russian car with parts from an American one.
As you might know all parasites carry a payload of virus and sometime bacteria (e.g. in worms). If the immune system kills e.g. a bacteria the main reaction can occur due to the virus payload. Sometimes these two defects work synergetic as the virus paves the ground for the parasite!
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Economy killing jobless numbers the past 2 weeks here in the US. Much worse than anticipated. This is unfortunately, only a taste of what is to come.
Because we are not doing enough. We are doing half measures that are not stopping the disease, yet they are destroying the economy. We have picked the worst of both options. This is a taste of what is to come if the Congress and the administration continue with idiotic, self-destructive half-measures instead of learning from other countries and fixing the problems. We know how to bring this under control. We know what must be done. Fauci described the solutions, and the New York Times described them today. We must have more testing, tracking, more antibody tests and a tighter shut down for this to work. As other countries have done. The Japanese economy is not shut down, and ours need not stay shut down. On the other hand, if we give up, and sacrifice millions of people to "open" the country too soon, that will destroy the economy for years instead of months. As one expert explained in the New York Times:
How To Reopen America
. . . There is no shortage of analogies for how to think about these components of the long-term response [testing, monitoring, antibody testing]: It’s a Marshall Plan, an Apollo mission and a New Deal all rolled into one. However this is framed, it needs to happen fast for the sake of both the economy and the public’s health. “The half measures we’re taking now are doing real harm to people’s livelihoods without doing as much as they could to slow the virus,” says Jeremy Konyndyk, a senior policy fellow at the Center for Global Development.
It will be difficult to explain these past few weeks to future generations — how terror and complacency sat so close together, how despite years of warnings from global experts and weeks of signaling from Asia and Europe, America’s leaders failed to prepare for the inevitable, and how even as sickness and death surpassed the capacity of hospitals and funeral homes, they did not act decisively.
There is still a chance to avoid the worst outcomes, but time is short.
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@sot you are missing the point as usual. IF HCQ is effective against Plasmodiom prophylactically this suggests that an effective concentration is maintained intracellularly for a week or so after a single dose of 500 mg. That effective concentration against Plasmodium is in the 10 uM range, yes? So this would provide protection vs COVID-19 over the same timescale. I'm certainly not impressed by Cuomo or Gupta's general !evel of intelligence for dealing with this crisis. I e-mailed Cuomo about HCQ without any response, What is Trump doing with the supply from Bayer, sitting on it waiting for it to hatch? Oh yes and we were joking about anti-bat virus spray composition.
. I know we shouldn't be joking around at a. time like this but there you go! -
Look. What if I said you could end this pandemic overnight if the will was there to do it? If every person on the planet took a single dose of HCQ once per week with or without Avigan and azithromycin? You would end up with the same statistics as that of malarial regions the Sub-Saharan African states, Bangladesh, Indonesia, South America. Still very very few cases, very few fatalities. Just look at the mapped distributions I've posted. Where you have malaria you have strikingy low COVID-19 cases or fatalities. And vice versa. Nobody at the WHO understands why, but a) we know chloroquine and other analogues are effective against both diseases b) low cases of COVID-19 occur in the World where the population regularly take anti-malarial medicines c) high levels of COVID-19 occurs mainly in highly developed countries like Italy, US, UK mainly causing deaths in the old, infirm, those with challenged immune systems. The reasoning that the population is all young and fit with very healthy immune systems in Africa etc hence few cases is untenable simply because agreed they do have fewer citizens
over sixty but they have one very big reason for having vulnerable immune systems: malnutrition, particularly among children due to abject poverty. Coupled with poor medical care, sanitation, impossibility of quarantine/social distancing, no hand washing or sanitizer, loo roll etc etc. Compared to the rich spoilt western countries worrying about running out of ventilators? Then compare this with the H1N1 flu epidemic which tore through African states,India, South America et killing millions. This has simply not happened, fortunately with this coronavirus. Simple answer: HCQ is effective against SARS CoV2 (and 1) but not against H1N1 (it was, before HCQ was invented but they did have quinine, later epidemics in 2009 and clinical studies suggested HINI infection was not prevented by chloroquine). So there you have it all the evidence suggests this remedy before vaccines can be deeloped, which according to the radio 4 programme tonight experts say is at least several months in the future. By which time, without anti-virus HCQ prophylaxis, millions will probably die according to JR's gloomy predictions. Too much emphasis on testing rather than treatment.
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Look. What if I said you could end this pandemic overnight if the will was there to do it? If every person on the planet took a single dose of HCQ once per week with or without Avigan and azithromycin?
If that is true, the large-scale tests of these drugs now underway will soon reveal it. Doctors will then give everyone the drugs. These are not double-blind tests, but if drugs are extremely effective and produce dramatic results, you don't need double-blind tests. Penicillin was never tested with a placebo. Doctors could see it was working without that, because it was so effective.
You would end up with the same statistics as that of malarial regions the Sub-Saharan African states,
I do not believe the stats coming from these areas. I don't believe the stats from Russia or India either.
Some of the stats from China are open to question. They are apparently not counting asymptomatic patients with positive tests, which is ridiculous. That was leaked from a Chinese government source, showing that they are not as good at keeping secrets as they were in Mao's day. I do not think they are covering up as much as other people here think, but there is no question the politicians are manipulating the data. The medical establishment probably would prefer not to.
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Look. What if I said you could end this pandemic overnight if the will was there to do it? If every person on the planet took a single dose of HCQ once per week with or without Avigan and azithromycin? You would end up with the same statistics as that of malarial regions the Sub-Saharan African states, Bangladesh, Indonesia, South America. Still very very few cases, very few fatalities. Just look at the mapped distributions I've posted. Where you have malaria you have no COVID.
Dr Richard. Correlation is not causation. The places you list have other common factors too, A different climate, very few branches of McDonalds, no Wifi and plenty of wood-smoke.
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Look. What if I said you could end this pandemic overnight if the will was there to do it? If every person on the planet took a single dose of HCQ once per week with or without Avigan and azithromycin? You would end up with the same statistics as that of malarial regions the Sub-Saharan African states, Bangladesh, Indonesia, South America. Still very very few cases, very few fatalities. Just look at the mapped distributions I've posted. Where you have malaria you have no COVID.
It’s amazing how much you believe that this one drug is a magic bullet solution to the problem. You may be right. I hope you are. Everyone does. But they just can’t give out a drug en masse without some kind of study to back whether it is effective, and more importantly it is safe and does no harm to the patient. It’s just a step that needs to happen. Here is a new study today announced by the Ford Health System. We will know in a few weeks at best whether it works or not. So they are trying.
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Same for azithromycin which has a whole lot of other analogues like clarithromycin etc. It's not rocket science.
Actually finding analogues which fit better into supposed binding sites isn't rocket science..true
its been done in catalytic chemistry for decades..
but the interaction of the complex bat viruses with the human immune system
is a lot more complicated than rocket science..
the current strategy of emulating the Bat strategy of dampening down the NLRP3 inflammasone .. among others.. is taking lots of scientific effort and money by BigPharma without much to show..
"though study after study suggests that the NLRP3 inflammasome hurts more than it helps, those data are all in animals, not humans. And finding drugs to selectively stop NLRP3 will be difficult. Scientists say that they don’t even have a detailed image of the protein—
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Alan Smith Of course! McD have been spreading the corona virus worldwide after their plot to wipe us out with Mad cow disease failed. No McD in Malawi so no cases! But there are how many cases in S.Africa today, 1400 spread from 10 McD outlets? LOL. I only claimed a strong correlation not causation. But isn't this what epidemiology is all about, spotting trends then investigating for causation? Ferguson et al seem to be narrowly fixed on mathematical modelling only and the government sees this as the only 'scientific evidence' to rely on. Pharmacological/Biochemical and now clinical scientific evidence is being flagrantly ignored. The blind leading the blind.
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JedRothwell Agreed. President (Emperor) Xi is repeating Chairman Mao's mistakes. History repeats, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But African states have no reason to play down the pandemic. They are having a hard time trying to locate cases in Nigeria where officials have claimed 'they must be all in hiding'. LOL
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robert bryant There is unfortunately a positive correlation between pharma's research effort and financial reward. No money in eg a cheap remedy like HCQ so no research into other analogues which could be more potent and less toxic. You can't expect age-old habits to change overnight although there are exceptions like Bayer who have donated HCQ free of charge to China and US. What about us guys? And further evidence for anti-virals sceptics is track the statistics in China, in particular Wuhan from 20 Feb onwards. What happened on 20 Feb? A well documented free delivery of chloroquine to China, after which there was a levelling off of cases and deaths curves. Coincidence again?
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.......and Italy began widespread use on 20 Mar one month later. Watch the stats drop since then. Speaks for itself. I talked to my wife's nurse on the phone just now to say she could not provide any more care as she was being deployed to the front line at another hospital. I mentioned Australian nurses/doctors were being offered HCQ in case of infection. She immediately replied that there have been clinical trials but a few overdoses recently have restricted its use. I hope she survives. The power of the liberal media, I presume she was referring to the US case with teaspoons of fish cleaner CQ phosphate soda cocktails! I presume this is the general view of the NHS to date. Ignorance rules yet again.
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There is unfortunately a positive correlation between pharma's research effort and financial reward.
I don't expect any new drug from Big Pharma in the short term
Normally drug development trials take several years at least
in silico modelling then cell lines.. then animal trials then human trials
Hopefully hydroxyQ plus two other existing drugs (azithromycin + ?) is sufficient to cure 90% of those
who might die otherwise... this is currently being established formally and informally on the frontline.
The important thing is to reduce the burden on hospital staff until the vaccine comes.
In the long term also I don't expect any wonder drug rom BigPharma.. there is not much money to be made from Covid..
a globeful of spectators closely examining the price.. of any wonder drug.
The development of Artemisinin to replace chloroquine was done by Chinese scientists.... not by bigPharma..
there was so much more money to be made in Viagra and Statins than in malaria..
malaria was a disease of the poor .. not the rich.
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The development of Artemisinin to replace chloroquine was done by Chinese scientists.... not by bigPharma..
In fact it has been done in China where they grow the Artemisinin producing plants. The company behind this is owned by Roche Switzerland and as usual in China a part is owned by the leaders family...
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A Doctor evaluates Study.
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