LENR based on SO(4) physics model

This thread is created to discuss LENR suggestions to create LENR based on the SO(4) physics model.

Wyttenbach suggested following structure to create LENR using this model:

Quote from Wyttenbach

The ideal LENR sandwich structure would be a styrene or any other H*/D* promoting catalyst coated by a thin layer of Nickel. On top of the Nickel side you place your thick Hydrogen soaked Pd layer. If you use a thinner Pd layer then you can feed Hydrogen to the Pd side while the H*/D* promoting catalyst side is kept under low pressure.

The only part missing in this receipt are the spices needed to transport the fusion energy!

Quote from Wyttenbach

The 10 outer Nickel electrons can act collectively what gives a total electrical potential of about 1020eV this is a very good match with the p-p bond found in (D*-D*) and also in H*-H* clusters. This means that nickel can resonantly absorb the energy produced by the forming dense Hydrogen.

Larger clusters of D*/H* can resonantly take over again the energy of the next levels on the way to e.g. D*-D* --> 4-He or Ni+D fusion. The problem with such surface reactions is their limited duration as Nickel only on the surface can store (theoretically) up to 10 Hydrogen atoms. Such a violent reaction will ultimately blow of the outer layer.

A better solution would be to coat palladium with Nickel (not the other way round as Mizuno does and then high H/D load Pd that then continuously feeds the Nickel surface.

It's time that people start to understand the real physics behind LENR and not waste their time with EVO's or strange radiation patterns fairy tales.

We already two years ago predicted from the SO(4) physics model that a high rate of X-rays must come out of such reactions. So no mystery just missing knowledge.

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(Layers not to scale)

Quote from gerold.s

Didn't Wyttenbach mention it the other way around .... better coat Pd with Ni .... ?

In the case of a Mizuno implementation he did indeed. But Mizuno's concept does not contain an active catalyst by design (maybe by contamination).

I also see the potential inconsistancy. That is why I created the drawing, so Wyttenbach can comment.

Quote from gerold.s

Where is the activation energy (heat?) fed into system. In the Center?

That is also what I would like to understand.

H*/D* is formed at the contact area between catalyst and the nickel layer.

Quote from Wyttenbach

The simpler your setup - just two metals as in Mizuno case - the more delicate is the balance between energy production and H*/D* proliferation. We see many Rossi like reactions that just show one big gamma bang and over!

What SO(4) physics shows is that there is no "real" coulomb barrier. The true problem is to find a pathway to release the fusion energy. With the simple Mizuno setup you have only one mediating step that is D*-D* and a small set of gamma states. The bad thing about this: The reaction only runs optimally in a very narrow temperature band. IF you miss the startup point then it will take a very long time until you breed some isotopes that greatly boost the reaction.

I think we both agree that H*/D* plays an important role in case Nickel is used.

What are the fusion reactions that you anticipate?
Do you think that similar effects take place like described by Holmlid, e.g. release of fast energetic particles, but that besides D-D and D-T fusions also transmutations of the present metals occur?

The other observation that comes to mind is that Rossi seems to have already gone through all the hurdles the past 10 years you indicate.
But now he seems to have a process running based on plasma(s) that at least is more controllable than using Nickel micrometer powders.

Does a plasma form of LENR also fit into your SO(4) model and if so what are the main reactions you anticipate?

Stability and controllability are important when it comes to reliable energy production (and certification).
This is why I prefer the methods of Holmlid/Norront over methods that include the use of Nickel (or similar metals) in an all in one reaction environment.
Holmlid/Norront split up muon production and fusion reactions:

Muons are produced in a low pressure Protium environment.

Fusion takes place in a separate high pressure Deuterium environment.

Quote from Wyttenbach

But first the physics must be stable and the muons should all run to the same target...

Muon generators can be placed in the center of the pressurized Deuterium vessel:

Of course this is a simplistic approach which probably need a bit more enginering, but this should be much better than the current MK1 powerplant proposal of Norront where 6 muon generators are place around a pressurized Deuterium vessel.

Quote from Wyttenbach

I personally have two favorite reactions.

- The silver based SUN-CELL that had 1 minute self sustain run or the more sophisticated Russian solution call "Swirl flow" reactor.

- The sonofusion Tee-Pot heater. This reaction can be downscaled to kitchen top and delivers heat almost instantaneously.

Interesting choices. Can you telll a bit more about your motivation?
So, you see no options for LENR based on plasmas?

Quote from Wyttenbach

How far must a kaon fly to produce a pion and afterwards a muon ??? And the pressured tank then must be huge and the cooling gigantic and where to you get the energy out of cooled Hydrogen ???

That is a valid point indeed. Something I forgot to take into account.
I need to dig up some numbers to determine the minimum distance from the UDH source.

B.t.w. shielding kaons must be easier than shielding muons.

This might mean shielding muons that move towards undesired directions can be done easier by kaon shielding close to the UDH source.

Quote from Wyttenbach

I personally have two favorite reactions.

- The silver based SUN-CELL that had 1 minute self sustain run or the more sophisticated Russian solution call "Swirl flow" reactor.

- The sonofusion Tee-Pot heater. This reaction can be downscaled to kitchen top and delivers heat almost instantaneously.

I tried to find a reference to the "sonofusion Teapot heater" here at the forum but could not find any. Do you have a good reference?

Quote from Wyttenbach

Here one of the last Stringham opus: StringhamRlowmassmhz.pdf

Thanks. There are some later reports available on LENR-CANR, latest from 2009.
I wonder what happened the last decade with this.

There is a more recent patent application, filed in 2017.