Deuterium Energetics Limited

  • So -we appear to have a tussle over patent rights. Oh Dear!

    I figured out this much also, Alan Smith . It is my understanding that Deuterium Energetics sprouted out from LANL people, and jfloan173 has stated they worked with LANL. Perhaps there lies the origin of this patent turf conflict?


    I have commented before that I was very interested when the LANL published about the water filtration potential of CNTs, and I was more than intrigued by the flow rate anomalies found, and as many years passed and that side of the technology has not developed much, I thought that the water flow Anomaly, which in turn had to be also an energetic anomaly, had something to do with this long delay. Perhaps I was onto something with this line of thought.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • I have seen similar debates by people that had experimental proof but was/is currently being met with similar challenges. No matter if the experiment works, if it's impossible by prior art, or worst, if it can´t be conceived to be possible from the prior art, no matter how good the results, the patent is rejected.

    That seems reasonable to me. The Patent Office should reject an experiment that is impossible or inconceivable. It should keep rejecting it until the experiment has been widely replicated at very high signal to noise ratios. What constitutes "widely" and "high s/n" is a judgement call. I would say at least 10 major labs should replicate at levels far too high to be experimental error. They should publish in the peer reviewed literature if possible, or they should present a list of credentialed scientists who have seen the experiment and agree it is valid. The Wrights were awarded a patent for the airplane, but they still had trouble establishing credibility after that. The U.S. Army refused to set up a test. They had a similar list of affidavits signed by distinguished citizens in Dayton who saw Wright's airplane fly in 1904. They did not make use of that list. I think if they had, the Army would have stopped arguing and arranged a test two years earlier than it did.


    Swartz complained about the Patent Office policy, but I thought the Patent Office was right in his case. He pointed to his award from the CMNS and other evidence that has nothing to do with laboratory experiments. He claimed that other scientists replicated his work. I suggested he send reports from these other scientists to the Patent Office. Based on the ruling from the P. O. judge, Swartz did not send any such reports. (He has never revealed who these other scientists are. I have not heard from anyone who replicated or confirmed it.)


  • Right, yes if the Wright brothers had hauled their plane nearby and flown over the Patent office or onto the Army test ground things would have been different. Easy enough to do, no other proof is needed then. No leading citizens as notarized witness. Certainly no replication by 10 major labs or publishing in peer review literature could prove the reality of what was then and there Wright in the air.


    Same Same i.e. Some same... Some different

    With LENR energy gadgets in your hands...

    Is a patent office needed to prove reality? Is the patent office needed to make money selling energy too cheap to meter? Who holds A-Priori within the decades old "cold fusion patent" battleground? Is most of this Art owned by our public domain now? Look to the expired patents of Liviu Popa Simil as but one example.


    A cold fusion gadget is simpler to produce, scale and therefore has a virtually unlimited market, unlike Wrights' airplane. Entering the market in order to solve a UN top rated world problem will find support within the UN "cold fusionesque scenario" for patent litigation. Start selling and fight that battle then and there if need be, let the chips fall where they may. The goal in the UN report is to ensure all parties are financially satisfied and that production of world saving technology never ceases and spreads quickly.


    Make a cold fusion powered cookpot/spaceheater/dcelectrical gadget for those in extreme poverty burning trees, tires and dung. Make a few and walk one into any officials' office and cook a few meals, hint at a few marketplaces where you are going to sell. Then say goodbye.


    Make a dozen "cold fusion" powered replacements for the millions of old high polluting two stroke generators that turn on in poor neighborhood back alleys when the grid goes down. Design a small modular production line and build it into some cargo containers. Give a few away units away in a poor neighborhood surrounding a chosen marketplace and start selling these locally manufactured/problem solvers locally. I hear word of mouth is the best advertising. Next you know you're bringing in a dozen more production lines and offering these for sale! No contract... Just a Healthy one time sale HUGE PROFIT. Patent the modular production line, no problem.


    Roll into a bankrupt U.S. town whose property values have plummeted do to fracking rigs, spotted by the many hundreds, throughout the county, literally having rigs as neighbors. Roll in with a megawatt or so of LENR electric on a big rig and say, "Unplug your town from the grid. All public service institutions, health providers, and environmental remediation and restoration projects get free energy for operations. The rest of you will have to keep paying what you do, though we will only charge the going market rate which is sure to go down"


    Soon the Mayor wins a long standing battle with the County and all fracking contracts are scheduled to halt by decades end.


    Or roll into any remediation project that requires process heat and electricity... same same.


    Or pick any skeptik and drive non-stop cross country and back.


    Who needs a patent? If you have a LENR energy gadget ready for any such "world problem solving" market start making money now. Don't waste time and money in a patent office; beholden to a 'faulty' negative predetermined judgment. Higher authorities can be called in if need be.


    Quote from the document…

    .

    Finally, an entirely new form of generating power may be developed which is so clean and economical that alternative sources of energy (including conventional energy sources), are too inefficient and cannot compete. This could provide a different, and much more effective means, of mitigating climate change. The prospects of this may seem unlikely, and one example, Cold Fusion, has long been the subject of sceptical discussion.[32] Yet it should be borne in mind that one prominent theory of innovation teaches that even if an innovation may appear unlikely to the incumbents in a field, there is always the prospect of an unexpected and radical innovation, which sweeps away established approaches.[33]

    .

    How might the term “essential technology” be described in a clear and transparent manner, consistent with good governance which has sought for the UNFCCC and other international institutions implicated by climate change?[65] A declaration could refer to the introduction by states of legislation regarding the provision of access to those technologies that have been established to be able to have a significant impact on greenhouse gas emissions, their evaluation and impact.

    .

    For mitigation, this could cover the cold fusion-esque and cement type examples; from the adaptation perspective, it might include technologies for responding to an increased incidence of malaria; it could cover information which is important to assess macro and micro climate change developments. There may be arguments, however, as to what the appropriate levels of impact are and how this could be assessed properly. Consider, for example, the discussion in 2010 about the accuracy of the 2007 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change [66] and indeed the fact that relevant data may, as noted, be under private control. – end quote

  • ... "Incidentally, it seems that the attorney now is a partner, too."


    With assignment problem, it seems.

    That was promptly resolved in DE's favor. They signed, and transferred their equipment back to us. This is why the 2656350 patent has three inventor names, all assigned to DE. Otherwise it would be individual inventors.

  • That was promptly resolved in DE's favor. They signed, and transferred their equipment back to us. This is why the 2656350 patent has three inventor names, all assigned to DE. Otherwise it would be individual inventors.

    Dear jfloan173 , can you please clarify to which entity are you related? It is not clear for me.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • C


    We had / have decent equipment. In the case of the early liquid experiments, the best we could buy. I admit shielding was under-appreciated. We planned extensive shielding (many feet of concrete) after the incident, but then went to gas phase. In the gas phase experiment, we had 4 stage pumping, a great mass spec (QMG 420, 128 amu system, 16x300mm rods, 90 off axis detector). I was trying to borrow a mag sector mass spec with real resolution, but that didn't happen. This is a tough range for quads, really need a mag sector. But a month later everything was stolen.

    who the hell stole the equipments? i suspect those are not regular thiefs? seems intentional like a sabotage

  • i share the same opinion as you


    i even suspect they are not granting patents intentionally..they are not stupid to the extent of not examining the physical evidence and reports!


    LENR have huge impact on energy market and even rare gases and metals as they will be produced in huge quantities when this art is mastered.

  • Right, yes if the Wright brothers had hauled their plane nearby and flown over the Patent office or onto the Army test ground things would have been different. Easy enough to do, no other proof is needed then.

    Actually, they could not do that, for reasons mostly beyond the scope of the discussion. It took days or weeks to prepare for a flight, and they had to have a designated field with a hanger. Eventually the army agreed to a demonstration at Fort Myer. It was a poor choice. There was not enough space. But anyway, Orville finally flew there on September 3, 1908. Wilbur had already flown in France on August 8, causing a big splash. These public tests did, finally, convince the world that the claims were true.

    Same Same i.e. Some same... Some different

    With LENR energy gadgets in your hands...

    Is a patent office needed to prove reality? Is the patent office needed to make money selling energy too cheap to meter?

    The patent office is not needed to prove reality. On the other hand you have to prove reality to get a patent. That is not normally needed but this invention appears to violate the known laws of physics.


    A patent is needed if you are going to make money. Without a patent, when the public realizes the invention is real, every industrial corporation on earth will take it from you. No doubt many of them will try to take it anyway, but if you have a patent you can hire top-notch lawyers and sue them.


    A cold fusion gadget is simpler to produce, scale and therefore has a virtually unlimited market, unlike Wrights' airplane.

    That is not a bit true as far as I know. It is not simple. I do not know anyone who can make a reliable cold fusion device. No one knows how to control it or scale it up.


    The Wright brothers airplane was rather simple to produce. It had no market, other than wealthy young men willing to risk their lives. It killed most of the early pilots.

    Make a cold fusion powered cookpot/spaceheater/dcelectrical gadget for those in extreme poverty burning trees, tires and dung.

    If anyone could do that we would soon be able to convince the patent office and every industrial corporation on earth that the invention is real. If anyone could produce 5 or 10 gadgets that produce 10 W reliably, on demand, with only a few watts input, I could use that to convince everyone in the world that the effect is real. No one I know is capable of doing anything like that. Some people claim they can do it but they are keeping their devices secret. I doubt they can actually do it.

  • i share the same opinion as you


    i even suspect they are not granting patents intentionally..they are not stupid to the extent of not examining the physical evidence and reports!


    LENR have huge impact on energy market and even rare gases and metals as they will be produced in huge quantities when this art is mastered.

    Here is the thing. I do not see a displacement effect on energy production world wide. I see an evolution in the manner in which energy is created and distributed. No manpower losses need result, just a shift from lineman to installer / maintainer.

    Sadly, I agree about intent. Vested interests might feel threatened, but it is a knee-jerk reaction. They will make more money, at lower cost, and not impact the environment. The paradigm will shift from brute force centralized production to distributed production. I would hope the existing energy distributors/producers would become the distributed energy manufacturers. Their costs will go from maintenance of high cost centralized production to a maintenance level highly distributed model, which will cost them less but will have a large force of retrained technicians that are highly distributed. There are strategic infrastructure benefits, but now, with the patent, anyone can do it. My hope.

  • Wrangling over patent rights won't get any of us anywhere. Until the basic physics is worked out and becomes generally accepted, only then will we have some headway. One question I have is how on earth can the CNT system work in the gas phase when all the carefully structured CNT frameworks would be vaporised? Was this one of the simplistic objections to your scheme by patent examiners? @Wyttenbach''s SO(4) physics need to be evaluated - it is a very complex algorithm which calculates the most accurate values closest to reality surpassing the Standard Model and most other theories, the concept of multi-dimensionality is making real progress in our thinking, surpassing even Einstein and Sternglass's ideas. But then again, they didn't have the computing tech we now have for solving such complex algorithms.:):)