From recent tests with an intermittent carbon arc I observed with a cheap software-based RF spectrum analyzer somewhat familiar spectra (30–1750 MHz):

The first especially reminded me of the one shown by Renzo Mondaini in his Mizuno-style plasma electrolysis setup as described in this other thread (0–2000 MHz):

Upon investigation it appears that similar plasma discharge systems show likewise a similar RF spectrum. For example, the one shown in this old paper by Iorio–Cirillo also looks familiar and more similar to the second I posted above (0–1000 MHz):

I'm not quite sure but I suspect that the above graphs show broadband RF noise with decay characteristics typical of high-frequency rate spark gaps/transmitters (as used in early radio). I couldn't find many examples but see for example the blue area in this graph from: https://www.nutsvolts.com/maga…ng_something_from_nothing

Then, the peaks and valleys observed in the actual experiments, as well as the noise floor, would mainly depend on the resonant characteristics of the antenna and receiver used. In the first two graphs I posted, the first was made with a ~60 cm long whip antenna, and the second with the same extended to 26 cm. It turns out (not unexpectedly, in retrospect) that difference in the location of the peaks is proportional to ratio of the antenna lengths. In other words the peaks are a function of antenna geometry rather than the actual reactions occurring in the spark gap/discharge, although this might not necessarily always be the case for all experiments.

Is there a specific name or concise mathematical relationship for the type of RF noise observed in these experiments or spark gaps in general? Are there other related examples from the LENR field?

My thinking is that a very short and sharp discharge event, ideally with zero rise time and zero fall time, repeated at high frequency would be akin to a square wave, and so it would have an infinite number of odd harmonics of amplitude decreasing as 1/n harmonic, and therefore that this would be the spectrum generated with a large number of discharge events.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/geowv.html

Many randomly spaced brief events would create a continuous spectrum, but as mentioned earlier, the antenna used would respond best at its resonant frequency and its harmonics, which would create a series of more or less broad peaks in the recorded power spectrum. I tried plotting an example of this (log10 of a mathematical square wave spectrum manually fitted to the recorded RF spectrum):

It is likely that this has already been discussed in detail elsewhere, but so far I haven't been able to find much.

My point is that the observed noise in plasma discharge experiments is in itself a signal, only often incorrectly captured by the antennas used due to technical limitations (limited bandwidth), which may give peaks and valleys—within the same RF power spectra—that are not actually real.

A more speculative consideration is that very powerful and brief discharges, given the characteristics of "square" or "sawtooth" waves, could potentially spill into the ionizing radiation range with slightly more than negligible power.

I tried taking the RF spectrum of a mini Mizuno-type plasma electrolysis made using steel electrodes, 300V, thin cathode and KOH electrolyte (more details on the device used and general setup in this other thread). I also used a whip antenna extended to 16 cm. Since it takes a while to perform a full frequency sweep (or in other words, RF power is not retrieved at all frequencies at the same time) and the reaction is not continuous, I usually set the spectrum analyzing program to display the maximum values. The data is background-subtracted, although it's difficult to obtain a good background over the entire range (24-1800 MHz).

The actual maximum values recorded are shown with the gray line. Interestingly during the plasma reaction there was a roughly 50 MHZ broad repeating signal, visible especially on the upper end. This seemed more or less independent of the antenna length, so it could be a true "signal within a signal". On the other hand, the overall general shape of the gray curve is more dependent on the antenna setup.

EDIT: here is a detail of the upper region at a higher gain setting.

EDIT2: it's possible that this feature has to do with signal reflection in the cable.

Earlier, inside one of the "bumps" at about 50 Mhz from the plasma electrolysis tests I found a roughly 127 kHz repeating signal using a different analysis tool which creates a "waterfall graph" out of RF data from the receiver I have been using. This graph type shows frequency on the X axis, time on the Y axis and encodes signal power (Z axis) with color.

Plotting more conventionally one single line from the above data gave this:

Tools used:

• http://kmkeen.com/rtl-power/
  • For producing csv data from the receiver
• https://github.com/keenerd/rtl…master/heatmap/heatmap.py
  • For producing the waterfall graph
• Python/pandas/matplotlib
  • For the more conventional 2D plot above

Whether this is a real signal (from actual reactions occurring in the plasma) or not, I'm not sure yet.

Shane D.

I've read about this 127.5 kHz signal before in apparently unrelated research. If this is indeed the same signal it means that a very easily accessible alternative experiment for reproducing the same results has been found.

Source: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chemphys.2008.12.019

Quote from Wyttenbach

Wasn't 50Mhz use for garage door openers ??

It's a very broad and intense peak that only arises when the plasma electrolysis reaction occurs, over the entire frequency spectrum measured. It's one of those visible here:

Using a different program I took a zoomed view of the descending portion of the first one visible at about 50 MHz. See below.

Left: no plasma; right: plasma. Vertical scale in dBm.

The repeating 50 MHz signal could be an artifact of some sort due to the cables/antenna setup, but this one with 127 kHz spacing perhaps is something else.

candide89

In the last few comments I am referring about a signal repeating every 127.0–127.5 kilohertz, found inside a signal repeating every 49–50 megahertz.

Wyttenbach

Check PM. Most studies by Holmlid on that regard have been with Rydberg matter of potassium, though.

EDIT: just for fun, I tried aligning my data (different run) with the previously posted figure. At this stage it could still be due to anything else.

Try without the "Dr" :

http://world.std.com/~mica/nanorrefs.html