Electrical Breakdown Spots. LENR related phenomena?

  • This thread created to allow discussion of the interesting paper posted by Ahlfors in the Media/News thread.


    https://www.lenr-forum.com/att…ical-breakdown-spots-pdf/


    The paper argues that the electrical energy input is insufficient to explain the cratering, and wonders which is the secondary phenomenon from where the supplementary energy required to form the craters might come, and leaves the question open for its potential relationship to “Cold Fusion”.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • Curbina

    Changed the title of the thread from “Electrical Breakdown Spots. An LENR related phenomena?” to “Electrical Breakdown Spots. LENR related phenomena?”.
  • Just wanted to point out that it might not be immediately apparent that the authors apply a voltage across a 200 nm Al2O3 thin film sandwiched between metallic films as electrodes (though it is not entirely clear to me which is the anode. Is it the top one?). The applied electric field is in the order of a few MV/cm.


    When they used a palladium film top electrode, a much larger number of craters is observed. Since Pd absorbs hydrogen, it's suggested that hydrogen explosion events might be involved, and a possible link to the 'supposed' cold fusion (citing the original Fleischmann-Pons experiments) is proposed.


    The conclusions:


    Convenience link to paywalled paper: https://doi.org/10.1109/TDEI.2020.008526

  • The craters reported in the recent paper are comparatively very small,

    The authors postulated hydrogen explosions.. does this mean combustion?


    ¬10 microns wide by ¬ 0.5 microns deep .. a very small volume is vaporised .


    70x10(-8) Joules needed to vaporise the solid material

    based on rough calculation there doesn't seem to be enough hydrogen..

    The material would have had to have absorbed 200 x its own volume of hydrogen

    Silicon has a vaporisation temperature of >3000C..

    Minute focussed hydrogen explosions...??? .. producing 3000C?


    the materials were exposed to almost vacuum conditions and then exposed to ambient air.

    Where would enough hydrogen come from...

    I guess this is why the authors talked vaguely of hydrogen explosions/ cold fusion.

  • That’s why this is interesting, precisely.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • I recently received an answer to my query to Dr. Kleim about his paper, I am inviting him to join the forum.


    In his answer he thanks me for the interest in his work and the links to related papers I sent him.


    He also comments that he thinks that, as their craters are very small, using the technique called Atom Probe Tomography could shed light on the presence and relevance of elemental anomalies. I was not aware of this technique, so I tried to rapidly get an idea about it, and found a relatively straight forward explanation of it in the following link:


    https://www.cameca.com/products/apt/technique


    I am not aware of anyone using this kind of elemental analysis technique in the research of LENR so far, does anyone know if it has been used?

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • The crater pictures in that Aug 2020 German paper titled "Electrical Breakdown Spots in Metal-Aluminum Oxide-Metal Structures" are similar to Ken Shoulders EVOs (Exotic Vacuum Objects)


    https://www.lenr-forum.com/att…shoulders-transcript-pdf/


    I got the German paper from Sci Hub. To get it, go to the wikipedia article on Sci Hub to find the current location of the Sci Hub website. After getting to the Sci Hub website, just put in the title of the paper.

  • The crater pictures in that Aug 2020 German paper titled "Electrical Breakdown Spots in Metal-Aluminum Oxide-Metal Structures" are similar to Ken Shoulders EVOs (Exotic Vacuum Objects)


    https://www.lenr-forum.com/att…shoulders-transcript-pdf/


    I got the German paper from Sci Hub. To get it, go to the wikipedia article on Sci Hub to find the current location of the Sci Hub website. After getting to the Sci Hub website, just put in the title of the paper.

    Thanks j9381 , I had Already obtained the Kleim paper, but this other you posted with relevant information about Shoulder’s craters I think I don’t have it, and now I do. I agree craters are often observed in this field, and the possible energetic anomaly with the elemental anomaly could confirm if Kleim’s craters are due to LENR or not.

    I certainly Hope to see LENR helping humans to blossom, and I'm here to help it happen.

  • The crater pictures in that Aug 2020 German paper titled "Electrical Breakdown Spots in Metal-Aluminum Oxide-Metal Structures" are similar to Ken Shoulders EVOs (Exotic Vacuum Objects)


    https://www.lenr-forum.com/att…shoulders-transcript-pdf/


    I got the German paper from Sci Hub. To get it, go to the wikipedia article on Sci Hub to find the current location of the Sci Hub website. After getting to the Sci Hub website, just put in the title of the paper.

    Of course, Shoulders was very close to understanding the physics of clusters of free electrons and this phrase in the article is "led to his work on creating, describing and categorizing EVO's, which he described as clusters of perhaps hundreds of billions of electrons. At one point in his papers he mentions that the number of electrons in an EVO may be linked to Avogadro's " is most important to me !!!

  • This conclusion certainly deserves attention - "Laboratory observation of high-density filamentation or clustering of electronic

    charge has motivated an investigation into potential cohesive mechanisms whereby repulsive coulomb forces could be overcome by some form of compensatory force of attraction. Of the various possibilities discussed in the literature, we have chosen to

    examine a model suggested by Casimir that invokes the possibility of charge confinement by Casimir forces. The resulting analysis indicates that the cooperative action of large numbers of charges by Casimir-type effects does provide a potential candidate for charge

    confinement of roughly the right order of magnitude to correlate with reported laboratory observations. (2 The Schrödinger pressure is a force that resists particle confinement due to the wave nature of matter that derives from a combination of the uncertainty and Pauli Exclusion principles.) "... But ... But the authors did not have enough a short way to the truth, since they were at the mercy of the "unconditional belief" that there is an "electric charge" in nature and there is a "Coulomb barrier" - but in fact there is nothing of THIS in nature - and this is a circumstance for many modern physicists is a complete collapse of their scientific work, their scientific search ... But such is life ... New faces come to the "stage" and expose the delusions of physicists of past years and the present ... Schrödinger was wrong ... Pauli was wrong ... Niels Bohr ... Rutherford ... Born ... Einstein ... Feinberg ... Heisenberg ... This is how physics develops ...

  • Взаимодействие с другими людьми

    This thread created to allow discussion of the interesting paper posted by Ahlfors in the Media/News thread.


    https://www.lenr-forum.com/att…ical-breakdown-spots-pdf/


    The paper argues that the electrical energy input is insufficient to explain the cratering, and wonders which is the secondary phenomenon from where the supplementary energy required to form the craters might come, and leaves the question open for its potential relationship to “Cold Fusion”.

    About craters and their nature ... Two of my articles in Russian ... Main ... This is the linear interaction of a bound electron with its proton of the atomic nucleus. The following - only bound electrons and their location relative to their proton characterizes the state of aggregation of matter ... As soon as you begin to understand this, you will immediately notice that any crater is two processes - the evaporation of matter and the pressure of photons ...

    We analyze Nikitin's report Three sources and three components of the foundations of the CMM theory, January 8, 2018 (1) .doc - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/88sM/BNnxNXo4P

    On the dangers of working on LENR.doc installations - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/FUra/3EV6jCnRi

    Letter from A.I. Cherepanov Bazhutov Yu.N., Parkhomenko A.G., Klimov A.I. dated May 3, 2017.doc - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/Mugt/oR4Yz2Bkg


    We analyze the article by A.A. Kornilova. and Vysotsky V.I .. doc - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/9ZqM/noG8sXiar