Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

    Quote from Alan Smith

    In this case the cell was dismantled, the working electrode was heated and the cell reassembled.


    ETA- with regard to the sulphate/citrate electrolyte, I found that it needs to be freshly made, for some reason I don't understand it still works as a plating system, but very soon becomes less effective as LEC making system.

    Thanks Allan, I noticed some papers use much smaller concentrations of sulphate/citrate electrolyte in the solution than I used.

    Today I made another cell with increased diameter to decrease the air gap from about 2.3 mm to 1 mm - Still no voltage measured at all.

    Another several attempts at replication using Iron plated copper pipes as a WE and CE pipes of Steel, Zinc coated steel and Brass with air gaps of approximately .2, .5, 1 and 2.5 mm have produced no voltage +- .1 mV. Plating method as per my previous post #924



    I then switched to brass plates for electrodes and plated in Ferrous Sulphate 30 gr, Sodium Citrate 30 gr, household ammonia cleaner 150 gr, 1.5 litre of tap water, heavy steel plate Anode with mill scale ground of. The WE plated on both sides. A magnet is attracted to the plating. The LEC read 150 pF capacitance at .5 mm spacing.



    The WE was rinsed with tap water and dried with a paper towel but still showed signs of dampness so it was gently heated with a 60 watt Halogen bulb for about 2 minutes until it looked dry.


    I stacked the WE .5 mm above the CE with vinyl electrical tap as a spacer at each end of the cell. A 1 megohm load resistor was connected across the cell. The cell was checked for shorts and it read 1.03 megohm. The voltage read 000.0 mV initially then climbed slowly to about 20 mV. I removed the WE and noticed that the CE had small areas of condensation (tiny bubbles). Apparently though the WE looked dry it still held moisture in the porous iron coating. I heated it again under the bulb for a few minutes and by then the CE condensation had evaporated. I placed the WE on the CE and the voltage read 000.0 mV and did not climb at all. I placed the WE back in the plating tank to continue plating and after 4 hours I removed it repeated the same drying protocol and assembled the LEC. The result was the same, incomplete drying of the iron surface caused condensation to form between the plates that is the likely cause of an electro chemical based voltage. With the WE placed back in the plating tank for 4-10 hours and then dried thoroughly with heat and tested again I get 000.0 mV. Tests with various plate spacing of .5 – 2 mm also showed 000.0 mV

    Quote from Curbina

    Ken thanks for your efforts, I guess you conclude the effect is not real. Can you post a detailed procedure of the electroplating protocol for letting Frank Gordon , Stevenson , Alan Smith and jean-paul biberian see what might be the problem?

    I don't conclude anything yet. I am still trying variations. I have described the electro plating in my posts. 1.3 volts at 150-200 MA was used in the flat plate LEC and chemistry as described. Solution at 21 deg C. The coatings are well adhered, they do not remove with moderate scrubbing with a scotch bright and they are magnetic. The brass plates are .9 mm thick. I see only a very small area of rust forming after 5 days. The humidity is around 40%.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    'second man' is Harper Whitehouse, Frank Gordon's research helper.

    Cydonia Quite a research helper helping to research and a man who is quite capable of developing system controls for advanced designs and improved performance. Harper Whitehouse's skill set is impressive... Patents worth reviewing for forming an opinion.

    Patents by Inventor Harper J. Whitehouse

    Harper J. Whitehouse has filed for patents to protect the following inventions. This listing includes patent applications that are pending as well as patents that have already been granted by the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO).

    • Electrolysis reactor system that incorporates thermal and galvanic controls to provide improved hydrogen production, storage, and controlled release in suitable conductive interstitial or metallic hydride materials
      Publication number: 20160244889 Abstract: This application relates to the production, storage, and controlled release of hydrogen for use in the hydrogen economy. More specifically, it relates to a novel electrolysis system design that utilizes electrolysis of ionized vapors and gasses to produce and store hydrogen in a hydrogen host material and the capability to reverse the electrolysis potential to provide safe, controlled hydrogen release. Type: Application Filed: February 24, 2015 Publication date: August 25, 2016 Inventors: Frank E. Gordon, Harper J. Whitehouse, Stanislaw Szpak
    • Acoustic particle alarm including particle sensor
      Patent number: 7463158 Abstract: The present invention provides an acoustic particle alarm comprising a particle sensor for indicating the concentration of particles exceeding a specified size and specified concentration, for particles entrained in a fluid flow impinging on a front face of the sensor, and a nozzle for directing the fluid flow such that the particles impact the sensor in a direction substantially normal to the front face of the sensor. Each particle impacting the front face of the sensor causes a response in an output of the sensor with amplitude that is monotonic in the momentum of the impinging particle. Type: Grant Filed: October 19, 2005 Date of Patent: December 9, 2008 Assignee: Linear Measurements, Inc. Inventors: Robert K. Hatch, William D. Squire, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Acoustic particle alarm including particle sensor
      Publication number: 20080084321 Abstract: The present invention provides an acoustic particle alarm comprising a particle sensor for indicating the concentration of particles exceeding a specified size and specified concentration, for particles entrained in a fluid flow impinging on a front face of the sensor, and a nozzle for directing the fluid flow such that the particles impact the sensor in a direction substantially normal to the front face of the sensor. Each particle impacting the front face of the sensor causes a response in an output of the sensor with amplitude that is monotonic in the momentum of the impinging particle. Type: Application Filed: October 19, 2005 Publication date: April 10, 2008 Inventors: Robert K. Hatch, William D. Squire, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Power-efficient sonar system employing a waveform and processing method for improved range resolution at high doppler sensitivity
      Patent number: 6466515 Abstract: A sonar system that includes a new comb-like waveform constructed by modulating the tines of a comb spectrum according to a set of Hermite functions defining a Hermite Function Space (HFS), and a processing method that reduces the sidelobes of the ambiguity function associated with the normally-processed HFS comb waveform. Noise-limited performance remains high, because the waveform is designed to be power-efficient; range ambiguity is superior to the highly-rated sinusoidal frequency-modulation (SFM) waveform; and reverberation-limited performance is equal to or better than that offered by any other waveform designed for this purpose. The full Doppler sensitivity normally associated with pulsed CW can be realized by the application to HFS signals of the constrained, regularized deconvolution method of this invention. Type: Grant Filed: October 26, 2001 Date of Patent: October 15, 2002 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: James M. Alsup, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Transducer assembly for deep submergence
      Patent number: 5007030 Abstract: A transducer assembly comprising: a diaphragm; at least one transducer elnt bonded by its head to the diaphragm; a pressure-resistant means, for supporting the transducer assembly; an acoustic isolator mounted about the transducer element and located between the diaphragm and the pressure-resistant means; the material of the acoustic isolator being elastically linear and equal in thickness to one-quarter wavelength of the corresponding operating frequency of the transducer element. Type: Grant Filed: February 5, 1970 Date of Patent: April 9, 1991 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Shelby F. Sullivan, Harper J. Whitehouse, Richard P. Hamilton
    • High-resolution technique for time-frequency signal analysis using modified wigner-ville analysis
      Patent number: 4894795 Abstract: An apparatus and method of improving the resolution of a linear FM signal s(t)=a(t)cos .phi.(t) where .phi.(t)=2.pi.(s.sub.o t+.alpha.t.sup.2) is provided by a modified computation of the Wigner-Ville Distribution. An analytical signal ##EQU1## is translated or calculated from the received linear FM signal r(t) so that a Wigner-Ville Kernel sequence ##EQU2## is formulated. An analysis of the frequency of the kernel sequence follows in accordance with a high resolution estimation technique that may include a kind of a least squares approximation fit or an eigenvector spectral estimator such as MUSIC OR ESPRIT to provide an improved time/frequency representation having a resolution of about an order of magnitude better as compared to a conventional discrete Fourier transform frequency analyze of the kernel sequence. Type: Grant Filed: April 28, 1987 Date of Patent: January 16, 1990 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Harper J. Whitehouse, Boualem Boashash
    • Wide dynamic range analog-to-digital converter using linear prediction
      Patent number: 4792787 Abstract: Improved dynamic range resolution or accuracy analog to digital conversion ses linear prediction. An open loop or feed-forward architecture passes an analog signal to a coarse or orthodox analog-to-digital converter that provides digital signals representing a most significant part of the output signal and offers them as inputs to a digital linear predictor whose digital output signal is reconverted to analog form and fed to an analog adder. An analog delay device may be used to receive the next analog sample and, after the proper delay (if needed), feed it to the adder where the difference between the analog predicted value and the analog signal is determined and passed to a subsequent coarse or orthodox analog to digital converter. A closed loop or feedback configuration receives the analog input signal data as well as a feedback predicted value in analog form and passes the difference to a coarse or orthodox analog to digital converter. Type: Grant Filed: February 4, 1987 Date of Patent: December 20, 1988 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Jeffrey M. Speiser, Harper J. Whitehouse, William H. McKnight
    • Method and article for a nearly zero temperature coefficient pressure transducer
      Patent number: 4772983 Abstract: A method and the resulting article for providing a nearly zero temperature coefficient pressure transducer preferably comprising a cylindrical capacitor whose capacitance is a function of both externally applied pressure and, undesirably, of temperature. The variation of capacitance with temperature may be greatly minimized by selectively choosing a transducer material characterized by particular parameter constants such that the temperature coefficient of Young's modulus (.alpha..sub.E) is equal in magnitude but opposite in sign to the temperature coefficient of linear expansion (.alpha..sub.l). Moreover, the thermal variation of capacitance can be further minimized by selectively choosing a transducer material whose temperature coefficient of linear expansion and of Young's modulus are nearly zero. Fabricating a capacitance pressure transducer from materials characterized by .alpha..sub.E and .alpha..sub. Type: Grant Filed: April 20, 1987 Date of Patent: September 20, 1988 Assignee: Linear Measurements, Inc. Inventors: George L. Kerber, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Imaging system
      Patent number: 4768156 Abstract: An improved imaging system has applications to synthetic aperture radar, inverse synthetic aperture radar, delay-doppler radar, positron-emission topography sonar, radiometry and other applications having a target image provided by a series of data parameterized by a variable such as .theta.. A receiver structure includes a bandpass matched-filter, square law envelope-detector, specialized processing and convolving to produce the improved images irrespective that the radar signals have practical side lobe structures and other features. Despite the demands of specialized processing the architecture of the algorithm permits real-time implementations. Type: Grant Filed: May 6, 1986 Date of Patent: August 30, 1988 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Harper J. Whitehouse, Donald L. Snyder
    • High speed optically controlled sampling system
      Patent number: 4546249 Abstract: A number of high frequency signal sources such as a number of receiving annas have their information content extracted by an optoelectronic synchronous sampling system. A laser provides pulses of proper frequency and duration and feeds them to a fiberoptic bundle. In one embodiment the fibers are lengthened to be simultaneously actuated. Otherwise, each of the fibers in the bundle has a different length so that light emanating from their distal ends appears as a delayed series of actuating light pulses. Phase shifters, pressure or electric field effects, can effect delay and consequent beamforming. Optoelectronic switches are disposed adjacent the distal ends so that the delayed series of actuating pulses actuates the switches in a synchronous sequence to synchronously sample the high frequency signals received by each of the antennas. Interconnected analog-to-digtal and processing circuitry conditions the synchronously received samples for further use. Type: Grant Filed: July 1, 1983 Date of Patent: October 8, 1985 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Harper J. Whitehouse, William H. McKnight
    • High-accuracy multipliers using analog and digital components
      Patent number: 4334277 Abstract: An apparatus multiplies two sequences of digital numbers a.sub.i and b.su, which may represent signal pulses of various amplitudes. A first plurality of t read-only memories (ROMs), have a common input adapted to receive the sequence of numbers a.sub.i, each ROM coding the numbers a.sub.i into a.sub.j,i =a.sub.j modulo m.sub.i, 0.ltoreq.a.sub.j,i .ltoreq.m.sub.i -1. A first plurality of t means, extend the digital signal with zero values, the number of zeroes being determined by the length N of the sequences being convolved. A first plurality of t D/A converters, convert the digital quantity received from the extender into its corresponding analog value.Similar ROMs, extending means, and D/A converters process the sequence numbers b.sub.i.A plurality of t means convolve two input analog signals, one from each of the first and second D/A converters, the output of each convolving means being an analog signal, approximately equal to the convolution (a.sub.j,i) * (b.sub.j,i) modulo m.sub.i. Type: Grant Filed: December 11, 1978 Date of Patent: June 8, 1982 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: James W. Bond, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Discrete Fourier transform system using the dual chirp-Z transform
      Patent number: 4282579 Abstract: A transform system provides a real-time implementation of the discrete Foer transform (DFT) of length N, the system being useful in sonar and radar signal processing. The input signal g.sub.n, 0.ltoreq.n.ltoreq.N-1, comprises a discrete signal, generally complex, of N samples.The system comprises an input for receiving the input signal g.sub.n and convolving in a first, input, convolver with a signal represented by the function e.sup.i.pi.n.spsp.2.sup./N , to result in a first modified signal at the output of the first convolver. Means are provided for generating the signal e.sup.-i.pi.n.spsp.2.sup./N. A multiplier receives the first modified signal and the signal e.sup.-i.pi.n.spsp.2.sup./N and multiplies these two signals its output being a second modified signal.A second, output, convolver, whose input is connected to the output of the multiplier, convolves the output signal from the multiplier with a signal represented by the function e.sup.i.pi.n.spsp.2.sup. Type: Grant Filed: October 22, 1979 Date of Patent: August 4, 1981 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Jeffrey M. Speiser, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Sampled speech compression system
      Patent number: 4270025 Abstract: A sampled speech compression and expansion system, for two-dimensional prssing of speech or other type of audio signal, comprises transmit/encode apparatus and receive/decode apparatus.The transmit/encode apparatus comprises a low-pass filter, adapted to receive an input signal, for passing through low-frequency analog signals. A converter is connected to the low-pass filter for converting the analog signal into a digital signal. A buffer memory, whose input is connected to the converting means, stores the digitized signals.A correlator, having inputs from the A/D converter and the buffer memory, correlates the digital signal received directly from the converter with a delayed signal from the buffer memory. An "interval-select" circuit, whose input is connected to the output of the correlator, uses the autocorrelation value as a basis for comparison with subsequent peaks in the correlation value which are greater than a specified fraction of the autocorrelation value. Type: Grant Filed: April 9, 1979 Date of Patent: May 26, 1981 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: James M. Alsup, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • CCD Analog and digital correlators
      Patent number: 4267580 Abstract: A charge-coupled device (CCD) analog and digital correlator comprises identical modules, each of which is a simple analog CCD correlator with digital input and output. Circuits are included:(1) for injecting charges proportional to the voltage sequences s(n) and r(n), where s(n) refers to the input signal, and r(n) relates to a reference signal, against which the input signal is correlated;(2) for non-destructively sensing and tapping each sample s(n) and r(n);(3) for forming the summation s(n)+r(n);(4) and finally for squaring s(n), r(n), and [s(n)+r(n)] in simple, floating gate MOSFET amplifiers. The amplifiers operate in their saturation region, and have outputs proportional to s.sup.2 (n), r.sup.2 (n), and [s(n)+r(n)].sup.2, which are then fed into a differential amplifier to produce s(n)r(n). Type: Grant Filed: January 8, 1979 Date of Patent: May 12, 1981 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: James W. Bond, James M. Alsup, Jeffrey M. Speiser, Harper J. Whitehouse, Isaac Lagnado
    • TV bandwidth reduction system using a hybrid discrete cosine DPCM
      Patent number: 4196448 Abstract: An image-compression system, wherein the image consists of a planar array of data points having various brightness levels, comprises a transmitter and a receiver. The transmitter comprises an analog-digital converter, for converting input analog data into digital data. The cosine transform is taken of the incoming digital data to transform the data representing various brightness levels into the frequency domain. The various frequency data points are differentially pulse code modulated, thereby removing line-to-line redundancy, the output data being in parallel form. Timing circuitry is provided for controlling the timing of the various circuits. Circuitry is provided in a receiver for the modulating or decoding of the output signal of the transmitter. Type: Grant Filed: May 15, 1978 Date of Patent: April 1, 1980 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Harper J. Whitehouse, Robert W. Means, Edwin H. Wrench, Jr., Jeffrey M. Speiser, Allan G. Weber
    • Permutation memories
      Patent number: 4164023 Abstract: A permutation memory comprises an input control means for decoding, having plurality L of inputs for an L-bit binary number, and a plurality 2.sup.L of outputs. Means are connected to the decoding means, for initiating the read-in of the L-bit number. Means are provided for applying an input signal. A first plurality of 2.sup.L of normally open switching means are connected to the 2.sup.L outputs of the decoding means and to the signal applying means. A plurality of 2.sup.L of means are connected to the switching means, for storing a charge when a specific switching means, connected to a corresponding charge storing means, is in a closed condition. A second plurality 2.sup.L of switching means are connected to the first plurality of switching means and to the charge storing means. An output control means, connected to the second plurality of switching means, reads out the states of the 2.sup.L charge-storing means, as to the amount of charge in each. Type: Grant Filed: September 22, 1977 Date of Patent: August 7, 1979 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Harper J. Whitehouse, Jeffrey M. Speiser
    • Discrete chirp frequency synthesizer
      Patent number: 4100498 Abstract: An automatic frequency-hop controller for a surface acoustic wave (SAW) shesizer is used with a means for generating two chirp signals, one having a delay with respect to the other. It comprises a SAW device, adapted to receive the chirp signals. The SAW device comprises a substrate and a pair of sets of interdigitated electrodes, disposed on the surface of the substrate, one set at each end, the electrodes receiving the electrical chirp signals or corresponding impulse signals. Another set of interdigitated electrodes, which are output electrodes, are also disposed on the surface of the substrate, the electrodes of all sets being parallel. The output set of electrodes are so disposed as to receive the acoustic waves generated by the pair of sets of electrodes, and transduce them back to electrical signals. Type: Grant Filed: June 20, 1977 Date of Patent: July 11, 1978 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: James M. Alsup, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Transversal filter prime sequence frequency synthesizer
      Patent number: 4099148 Abstract: A frequency synthesizer, for use with a means for generating two sequences of electrical pulses, one sequence having a delay with respect to the other, comprises a surface acoustic wave (SAW) device, adapted to receive one of the sequences of electrical pulses from the generating means. The SAW device comprises a substrate, on the surface of which is disposed a first set of interdigitated electrodes. The electrodes receive the electrical pulses and tranduce them to acoustic waves, which traverse the surface of the substrate. The lengths of the electrodes are configured as a function of m, where m is defined by the relation m = R.sup.n mod P, where P is a prime number, R is a primitive root of P, and 1.ltoreq.n.ltoreq.P-1. A second set of interdigitated electrodes, approximately N-1 in number, is also disposed on the surface of the substrate, the electrodes of the first and second sets being parallel. Type: Grant Filed: May 2, 1977 Date of Patent: July 4, 1978 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: James M. Alsup, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Carrier-compatible chirp-Z transform device
      Patent number: 4010360 Abstract: A carrier-compatible device for computing the discrete Fourier transform of an input signal, using the chirp-Z transform (CZT) algorithm, comprising means for connecting to a real and imaginary part of an input signal g.sub.k. A pulse generator generates a sequence of very short pulses. A surface acoustic wave (SAW) chirp generator, whose input is connected to the output of the pulse generator, generates cosine chirp signals and sine chirp signals. Four input mixers have as their two inputs a real or imaginary part of the signal g.sub.k and a sine or cosine chirp signal from the SAW chirp generator. First and second summers have as their two inputs the outputs from two of the input mixers. A SAW chirp filter, whose two inputs are the outputs of the summers, filters out the higher components from the input signal and passes the lower components. Third and fourth summers are connected to the SAW chirp filter, whose two inputs are components from the SAW chirp filter. Type: Grant Filed: March 31, 1976 Date of Patent: March 1, 1977 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: James M. Alsup, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Acoustic telemetry system for oil wells utilizing self generated noise
      Patent number: 4001773 Abstract: An acoustic communication method and system are disclosed for transmitting information through a well-bore drill string by using the acoustic noise inherently generated in the drill string by drilling operations as a "carrier" propagated therealong to be modulated by the information to be transmitted. In the drilling of wells, the action of the drill tool on the bottom of the bore hole creates acoustic noise within the drill string. Other suitable sources of "noise" are often present during "drilling operations", as broadly defined, even while bore drilling, as such, is suspended. This noise usually consists both of wide-band continuous acoustic energy and of narrow spectral lines of acoustic energy and is usually present in a variety of acoustic modes such as longitudinal and torsional acoustic waves. The detailed characteristic of this acoustic noise depends on the type of drill tool used, the drilling speed and the type of formation being drilled. Type: Grant Filed: July 28, 1975 Date of Patent: January 4, 1977 Assignee: American Petroscience Corporation Inventors: Arthur E. Lamel, William D. Squire, Harper J. Whitehouse
    • Signal processing imager array using charge transfer concepts
       Patent number: 3940602 Abstract: A signal processing sensor which utilizes a combination of charge transfer devices and signal processing concepts which simultaneously measures the incident optical signal and performs a linear transformation upon that signal. Two CCD registers are arranged on either side of a photodiode array. Independent control of the transfer gates which control the flow of information stored in the depletion region of the photodiodes results in independent functioning of the two CCD registers. The difference between the charge in the two registers is taken at the output in order to provide both positive and negative weight for the data pattern that is to be convolved or correlated. Type: Grant Filed: September 23, 1974 Date of Patent: February 24, 1976 Assignee: The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of the Navy Inventors: Isaac Lagnado, Harper J. Whitehouse

    Amazing work Ken!

    Your protocol seems ok, the only variable is the plating process. Frank and Harper used chloride salts (either for Pd or Fe), I used Fe + HCl, J.P. Biberian used also chlorides and bromides. I suspect that a lower pH is needed in order to either increase the H+ concentration and codeposition, and also to modify the plating structure at micro/nano level (increasing the number of defects).

    All pictures I saw from successful replications had a coating that looked quite "ugly". In my first successful replication I was very disappointed with the plating result! :D

    I recap my protocol, in case you would to try it out:

    - start with a clean and finely sanded brass electrode as cathode

    - use as electrolyte tap water with about 5% of HCl (I used 1/4 in volume of 20% HCl)

    - use a number of 1 mm iron wires evenly spaced around the cathode, at a short distance (< 1 cm)

    - start with a current density of about 100 uA/cm^2 for one hour then about 200 uA/cm^2 for another hour (resulting voltage should be around 200 mV)

    - increase the current at about 2 mA/cm^2 for about 3 or 4 hour (voltage will be around 300 mV)

    - you have to gradually increase the voltage in order to keep the desired current, within the above mentined limits

    - In this first part of the process you should note a sensible evolution of hydrogen at the cathode and almost no plating forming

    - After about 4 or 5 hours, you should note that the gas evolution stops or reduces a lot, the current will also decrease: this is the start of the second part of the process

    - Increase the voltage so that the current will be about 3-5 mA/cm^2. The resulting voltage will be about 500 mV (do not exceed 600 mV). Keep this setting for about 4 hour

    - You should note that from that moment the cathode starts to plate with a black coating, the hydrogen evolution is small and the current will maintain quite stable

    - After these last 4 hours, take out the cathode, that will look kind of carbon black, not shining at all. Rinse and dry very well with a towel. Do not use an oven and do not take too much time, because it will rust very rapidly! However take all the measures so to avoid unwanted wet contacts.


    Assemble a LEC with a brass, copper or aluminium counter-electrode, and measure the voltage: after a few minutes it will rise to some 100s mV (hopefully! ^^).

    Thanks for that description - I think it's very helpful. And I am tempted to agree about the better results with an acidic environment. My plating solutions work when freshly made, but seem to loose potency (for LEC use) though they improve the plating with age.

    Thanks Stevenson for the detail, I will follow this plating method with HCI and report my result. Ill likely use flat plates again rather than tubes as they are a bit easier to manage with my set up at the moment.

    Quote from Ken

    Thanks Stevenson for the detail, I will follow this plating method with HCI and report my result. Ill likely use flat plates again rather than tubes as they are a bit easier to manage with my set up at the moment.

    Great! :thumbup:

    Flat plates should work well, just as tubes, and in addition they make easier to do a number of interesting experiments.


    BTW, I made some experiments months ago to specifically check out if a partially wet or moist electrode can produce the effect. The result was that twofold: a) no effect can be induced just by wetting a plated (but inactive) electrode, b) since a wet electrode may generate a voltage if set in galvanic contact with the counter-electrode, it was possible to verify that the isolation I used was very effective, even with a much greater level of moisture of usual active electrodes. Moreover the electric characteristics provided by a galvanic contacts are very different from the one seen on a genuine LEC (for example the current is much higher, the internal resistance is much lower and when an external voltage is applied the V/I curve is modified due to heating).

    Quote from Stevenson

    Great! :thumbup:

    Flat plates should work well, just as tubes, and in addition they make easier to do a number of interesting experiments.

    I attempted to plate with HCl and no coating formed.


    400 mL of 31% HCl in 1.6 L tap water, 25 deg C

    .9 mm thick brass plate 88 cM^2 per side, 240 grit sanding,

    heavy steel plate anode

    1 hour at 17 mA

    1 hour at 35 mA ~200mV

    2 hours at 350 mA ~ 300mV

    3 hours at 700 mA ~ 520 mV

    At this point no coating had formed, I watched for 3 more hours and no coating, lots of bubbles. I tried for 3 more hours and boosted the current to 2 amps for a 1\2 hour without result. I left it over night at reduced current of 200 mA and no coating other than at the top area above the water line. The solution remained clear with a gram or so of iron particles around the base of the anode. Any ideas what went wrong?


    Quote from Stevenson

    Great! :thumbup:

    Flat plates should work well, just as tubes, and in addition they make easier to do a number of interesting experiments.


    BTW, I made some experiments months ago to specifically check out if a partially wet or moist electrode can produce the effect. The result was that twofold: a) no effect can be induced just by wetting a plated (but inactive) electrode, b) since a wet electrode may generate a voltage if set in galvanic contact with the counter-electrode, it was possible to verify that the isolation I used was very effective, even with a much greater level of moisture of usual active electrodes. Moreover the electric characteristics provided by a galvanic contacts are very different from the one seen on a genuine LEC (for example the current is much higher, the internal resistance is much lower and when an external voltage is applied the V/I curve is modified due to heating).

    I have found that my inactive CEs will produce a voltage if I soak them in tap water for a few minutes then place them on a brass plate at .5 mm spacing. The output persists for an hour or so until the water evaporates. The voltage is usually less than 25 mV.

    One thing to watch is that checking the LEC with an ohmmeter will charge the cell as an ohmmeter functions by applying a voltage and then reading current and scaling the readout as ohms. If the cell is functioning as an electro chemical cell it will take on a charge from the ohmmeter. Also the cell capacitance will acquire an electrostatic charge. The cell capacitance though is very small and my load resistance of 1 megOhm will discharge the capacitance within micro\milli seconds and the electro chemical charge in seconds.


    lenr-forum.com/attachment/20382/

    Ken


    You could try adding some ferric chloride to your plating tank. This will increase the number of Fe ions in solution and should help with plating. I also had trouble with plating the way you describe above, until I changed my flat plate steel anode for a bundle of twisted soft iron wire (florists wire or binding wire as sold for fixing together parts for welding or) brazing. MIG iron wire would possible work if you have nothing else available.


    I cannot really explain why the twisted wire bundle worked better than a plate anoide.

    Quote from Ken

    Any ideas what went wrong?

    Really I don't know... The recipe, currents and times are ok. The only variables left are the anode and the total volume of the solution. The actual plating starts only when the HCl is completely "decomposed". Probably this may require more time if the volume of solution is bigger than the one I used (essentially a test tube). If you keep the voltage at about 300-400 mV, you will notice that at some point the current and the bubbling decreases a lot. This is the moment when you have to increase the voltage > 500 mV to get the desired current, and the plating starts. Probably in order to work with this voltages you need to keep the anode relatively close to the cathode (< 0.5-1 cm) and the anode have to surround well the cathode (it can be made from multiple wires or just one wire wrapped around the cathode, the wires being of 1 mm diameter or less).

    Quote from Stevenson

    Really I don't know... The recipe, currents and times are ok. The only variables left are the anode and the total volume of the solution. The actual plating starts only when the HCl is completely "decomposed". Probably this may require more time if the volume of solution is bigger than the one I used (essentially a test tube). If you keep the voltage at about 300-400 mV, you will notice that at some point the current and the bubbling decreases a lot. This is the moment when you have to increase the voltage > 500 mV to get the desired current, and the plating starts. Probably in order to work with this voltages you need to keep the anode relatively close to the cathode (< 0.5-1 cm) and the anode have to surround well the cathode (it can be made from multiple wires or just one wire wrapped around the cathode, the wires being of 1 mm diameter or less).

    I have changed anodes to 2 twisted pair of "mechanics wire" of 18 gauge in 4 groups about 1 inch from the cathode. (Probably steel as I could not locate pure Iron wire). I reduced the HCl to 200 mL (to reduce the smell). My container is the same size 1.6 L, if this does not work I will reduce the container volume. Right now its drawing 350 mA @ 300 mV ~ 2 hours from start.

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