Quote from Rob Woudenberg

Since iron-iron WE (iron rod plated with iron) does not provide any LEC voltage it appears that the double layer between two different metals is key to provide the observed

This is not yet proven to be the case, being subject to ongoing studies, although double-plating brass (iron plated on top of iron plate) has not so far yielded good results, no 'null' but sub 100mV. I have just taken delivery of some zinc and titanium sheet, since I am interested in expanding the materials research side of things, and also like Stevenson looking again at Frank's own plating methods.

Quote from Rob Woudenberg

I recall from your earlier postings that plating an iron rod with iron (as a WE) does not result in a significant voltage. Can you confirm?

Not exactly: I tryed to load iron rods with electrolytic hydrogen (by using them as cathodes), but no plating was applied in that case.

The MFMP did a livestream today that has interesting ideas around the behavior of certain catalysts as electron scavengers and, focusing on a specific 2014 Japanese patent, that suggests that this mechanism could play a role on explaining the observations on the LEC on air. There’s a core of literature mentioned and a discussion about the main aspects but is also a challenge to the audience to explore this venue from the LEC perspective.

It is suggested to watch a recent Biberian’s LEC presentation before, will post both links:

Curbina

If you want to obtain a steel/iron surface coated with such trivalent Fe oxides a simple way is just wetting it with relatively concentrated KOH or NaOH solution and heating it up above 300 °C or so to make the solution evaporate. The rust formed on the piece will quickly react with the hydroxide compound and form an interesting green-looking oxide material that easily decomposes with water/grabs water. I even showed the process using KOH in another thread a while back using very crude methods. The process does not work at low temperatures with Fe2O3 / red hematite, though, it needs rust as FeOOH.

EDIT: by the way, the patent referred in the video linked by Curbina, which I wasn't aware of when I made those tests, is this one: JP2014047082A - Higher alkali metal-transition metal oxide - Google Patents . The suggestion was that on some level alkali impurities would be forming similar oxides on the LEC cathode. The authors here seem to be suggesting that the same material is a "nuclear reaction inducer".

Quote

Abstract

PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To provide a multifunctional and low-cost higher alkali metal-transition metal oxide.SOLUTION: The inside of a stainless steel- or iron-made reaction cell 1 is filled with an oxygen-free atmosphere, an alkali metal-containing compound such as NaOH or KTiOis placed therein as a reactant, fine particles of the reactant are scattered therein by heating the reaction cell 1 to 500-700°C, a higher alkali metal-transition metal oxide film is generated on an inside wall of the reaction cell 1 by supplying steam to the reaction cell 1, and the oxide film is used as a moisture absorbent, a hydrogen storage material, an electrode material of a fuel cell, and a nuclear reaction inducer.

Nice videos, thank you BG and Curbina. I should point out that the LEC works just as well without any Sodium in the system. AFAIK Biberian, Stevenson, and Frank Gordon haven't done so. @magic sound has I think started using this method...but not certain.

Quote from Alan Smith

Nice videos, thank you BG and Curbina. I should point out that the LEC works just as well without any Sodium in the system. AFAIK Biberian, Stevenson, and Frank Gordon haven't done so. @magic sound has I think started using this method...but not certain.

Well, I think that what Bob proposes is beyond the presence of Na or K, it’s about the conditions that favor the formation or action of an electron scavenger, as a way to help force H into the materials.

@ Curbina

I agree with his overall description of the possibilities - just that not all the replicators have used alkali metals, which he seemed to suggest was the case.

Making a simple and relatively safe plating solution...

Cutting brass sheet for cathodes....

This might be obvious to some- but these are test clips for a full 'how to' video. We live and learn, the camera angle needs to be improved...

Excellent initiative Alan Smith ! An overhead angle camera could probably be the best for this purposes, but your test videos look very good. The LEC is "simple" but there's not such thing as a "simple experiment".

If Frank approves the content then it will all get re-shot. As you say, camera angles need to be better.

LEC - Jean-Paul Biberian,

Starting at 7:48

Some good news from Frank today- work is continuing on the LEC and there are signs of increased interest and support since the ARPA-E meeting. Matt and I are back on the case tomorrow too.

Alan Smith and I finally having some luck with the Iron plating using Stevenson HCl method.

See animation on Giphy here https://media.giphy.com/media/k0ijmtPgNPEAOJO0CL/giphy.gif

.Fantastic news! You two are writing history!

Quote from matt

Alan Smith and I finally having some luck with the Iron plating using Stevenson HCl method.

See animation on Giphy here https://media.giphy.com/media/k0ijmtPgNPEAOJO0CL/giphy.gif

What was the trick? As far as I could tell from past tests, if the HCl concentration was too high, the iron would be dissolved away from the cathode at low currents.

Quote from can

if the HCl concentration was too high, the iron would be dissolved away from the cathode at low currents.

That's quite correct. Weaker electrolyte and more 'free' iron ( from anode dissolution) should be the difference.

Quote from David Nygren

.Fantastic news! You two are writing history!

Thanks for your encouragement. Might take a bit longer to rewrite history, but Alan Smith and I will try our best

Quote from can

What was the trick? As far as I could tell from past tests, if the HCl concentration was too high, the iron would be dissolved away from the cathode at low currents.

Turns out that I got excited a bit too soon.

This was immediately after taking it out of the bath... looks nice and dark... i.e. some Fe.

Below was after doing some rinsing (and admittedly a bit of manhandling). Looking at this now after coming back from the lab it doesn't look so much like Fe but more Cu. Alan Smith - seems consistent with what we were seeing when we tried a second time before we left - what do you think?

Stevenson, It's really interesting that you were able to get plating so easily. Alan and myself have tried to match the concentration you specified in your report but not joy so far. We also tried to match the current density too. We are doing it it a much bigger jar... can that really make such a difference?

Electroplating is still a bit of a dark art to me right now... perhaps I should stick to physics haha.

This was some Fe plating onto brass from the ferrous sulphate solution

Looks a lot more like iron. Alan Smith and I tried to look for voltage and current in a H2 atmosphere but didn't see any. The set-up was like this (below pic is from the acid plating from last post, but same set-up for this sample)

Brass counter electrode and teflon+glass mesh in between.

I've not go the time to write more detail but I'll put more in time. For now I just wanted to let you know that we are still working on it and hope to be able to get some better results soon.