Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

    Many of you consider the LEC as a possible test system for LENR. The theory goes: iron from ferric chloride when plated on a electrode creates sites of nuclear activity. The nuclear sites are based on likely anomalous emissions like those observed by R.K Rout et al. In fact something causes ionization between electrodes in a gaseous medium. By using two electrodes and an ionized medium an electrochemical cell is created.


    What if ferric chloride doesn't have to be plated? What if the current can be turned on or off by a magnet placed or removed from one electrode? I offer for you consideration a paper which I believe offers a system that is a power source and is related to LEC. Magnetic Control of Magneto-Electrochemical Cell and Electric Double Layer Transistor | Scientific Reports (nature.com)


    Ferric chloride is a paramagnetic ion. The application of a magnet creates a force on ferric chloride which is balanced by diffusion. The concentration gradient occurs as shown in figure 1. An EMF was attributed to the ion concentration difference in the electrolyte based on the Nernst equation. Figure 2 shows the voltage turns on or off by placement or removal of the magnet but is not instantaneous. No voltage is induced if distilled water with phosphate buffer is used in place of the ferric chloride solution. The voltage curve grows when the magnet is applied and declines when the magnet is removed. The presence of water is necessary for the voltage and is maximal when ratio of water to Bmim approaches 1:1 presumably in volume %. Figure 3 shows the discharge performance and magnetic field dependence of the maximum EMF and Q.


    The discussion on page 4 about the discharge curves of the MEC and EDLC is curious. The EDLC acts like a capacitor, but the MEC provides far more energy than expected for a capacitor mechanism (more than 1000 x). A capacitor has charge based on surface area. The energy input comes from energy supplied during placement of the magnet. In contrast, data provided in the supplement shows the energy available in MEC scales with volume of the electrolyte not surface area of the electrodes. The paper suggests that this extra energy is coming from an electrochemical reaction. They speculate the source of the electrochemical energy. Thermodynamically, their explanation does not make sense. Rather, it seems they have tapped some energy source.


    The three connecting points between MEC and LEC are: both are electrochemical cells, both have some chemistry between iron and water, and one has plating with magnetic properties on one electrode and the other has addition of a magnet to one electrode.


    Supermagnetic atoms are the catalyst for cold fusion in an electric arc as I have implied by mass balance and stoichiometry in other comments in this forum. I suspect that cold fusion occurs in MEC with the same chemistry. Further, the energy from cold fusion become available via the Nernst equation not because of ferric chloride concentration but because the nuclear reaction product of supermagnetic atoms is concentrated by a magnet on an electrode. The supermagnetic atoms provide the EMF. They decay from the supermagnetic (an energized state) to normal atoms by emitting a excited electron to an electrode. What do you think? Could MEC be a cold fusion cell?


    Perhaps the same chemistry happens with LEC.

    You wrote -

    I offer for you consideration a paper which I believe offers a system that is a power source and is related to LEC. Magnetic Control of Magneto-Electrochemical Cell and Electric Double Layer Transistor | Scientific Reports (nature.com)


    I read the article ... The magnet, which was used, initiated the formation of clusters of free electrons, since they thus show their magnetic properties ... Pictures from the image of "electric charges" are a delusion of the authors of the article - there are no charges in nature ... In solution there is no movement of ions - this is nonsense invented by Faraday, who could not have modern knowledge in physics ... Draw conclusions!

    Quote from matt

    Stevenson, It's really interesting that you were able to get plating so easily. Alan and myself have tried to match the concentration you specified in your report but not joy so far. We also tried to match the current density too. We are doing it it a much bigger jar... can that really make such a difference?

    Hi Matt! I guess there are some minor but relevant differences in your process compared to mine. For example I notice that your solution is greenish, this means that there is a good quantity of Fe2+ ions dissolved (my solution remains transparent till the end), and this in turn this imply that either the HCl concentration is high or the voltage/current is high. I used about 1/4 of 20% HCl (so the HCl was diluted) and about 3/4 tap water. But probably the key difference is the voltage: due to the geometry of my cell I had to use very low voltage to get the desired current densities. In particular, the reaction seems to proceede in two steps. At first the voltage is < 0.5V, and during this time there is consistent hydrogen evolution at the cathode, no plating is formed and nothing seems to happen at the anode (but I suspect that during this stage some Fe oxides are formed). After some time (about 4 hours in my case), the hydrogen evolution as well as the current decrease, so to bring it up to the previous level the voltage has to be increased to > 0.5 V (less that 1 V in any cases). At this point the cathode starts to plate with a black coating, and this goes on for the remaining 4 hours. At the end of the process the cathode is coated by a uniform and well adhered layer of iron (and/or iron compounds?), that is quite strongly magnetic.

    This could be useful too, although it's not as terse:


    ELECTRODEPOSITION OF IRON AND IRON ALLOYS

    Masanobu Izaki

    From "Modern Electroplating", Fifth Edition


    [PDF] ELECTRODEPOSITION OF IRON AND IRON ALLOYS - Free Download PDF
    1 11 ELECTRODEPOSITION OF IRON AND IRON ALLOYS MASANOBU IZAKI Iron plating is the principal material used for numerous a...
    silo.tips

    Yesterday's 4th attempt to replicate the HCl plating method using 20% acid was our 4th failure. Now I have made a new plating solution at 5% HCl concentration and following the Stevenson current regime.



    Here's the top part of the anode -after 24 hours completely digested by the 20% HCl.



    Here's the brass cathode- as you can see the acid has stripped the zinc out of the surface of the alloy, leaving behind the pinky-colour copper.



    This is the 20% solution showing the greenish colour due to ferric chloride formed by reaction with the anode, also the thin layer of red iron oxide that was on the surface of the anode and now lies on the bottom of the beaker.



    Here's a new anode made from twisted iron wire. This particular wire is generally known as binding wire btw and is generally made from soft low-carbon iron. It's used to temporarily fix together small items for soldering/brazing.



    Here's the new plating job underway, 5% acid now and current density comparable with the stevenson protocol.

    From the previously posted documents (1 and 2), as far as I understand the best results for a chloride plating bath are typically achieved when the solution is hot, >85 °C, which could be in agreement with what I observed as well (although many of my attempts were at high currents which heated the solution up significantly). Furthermore it is suggested that the presence of Fe(III) ions is harmful.


    Such Fe(III) ions are reduced by adding steel filings or wool to the bath, although this seems to be usually done beforehand.



    For optimal results I also guess that controlling pH will be essential since it will tend to decrease with time. In the other document this was suggested to be done by adding HCl solution as required.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    This is the 20% solution showing the greenish colour due to ferric chloride formed by reaction with the anode

    This is pretty ironic: when I've done my first LEC plating I was trying to obtain FeCl2 in place this way, but I didn't succeed... :D

    With 5% or lower HCl concentration you should get a clear solution during all the plating and only a slight discoloration of the brass. I think also the voltage is important.

    BTW, I don't believe my protocol is optimal in any way (at least from the plating point of view... I don't know if it is more effective than others in obtaining the LEC effect).

    I would like to try with FeCl2+H2O (as Frank originally suggested) sooner or later. It appear to be simpler (just one variable to play with).


    Quote from Alan Smith

    Here's a new anode made from twisted iron wire. This particular wire is generally known as binding wire btw and is generally made from soft low-carbon iron. It's used to temporarily fix together small items for soldering/brazing.

    Yes, my anodes are made from this kind of wires.

    matt

    Good to know it's useful. I looked for published information on the process since I realized I didn't really know much about how it is done in practice other than from semi-random tests.



    Among the suggestions listed, I tried the steel wool trick, which seems to work in that a brown-looking iron chloride solution (indicating ferric/Fe3+ ions) eventually turns yellow, then green/blue-green (indicating ferrous/Fe2+ ions). After a while this turns rather pale, which seems consistent with what Stevenson has observed in a few occasions earlier. I haven't attempted electrodeposition yet, just making the HCl solution digest grade-0 steel wool (initially oxidized).


    There are suggestions that Fe2+ solutions are almost colorless or pale so that should be expected: http://www.sciencemadness.org/…783&goto=search&pid=60817


    And here (archived link from the above post, but photos are broken): https://web.archive.org/web/20…ce/chem/solutions/fe.html

    Hi Alan, Matt,

    'If it aint broke don't fix it'

    Why are you trying to get a hydrochloric acid plating solution to work, when you have already

    got a near perfect plating result using the sulphate, tartrate(citrate), ammonia solution?


    You might try cycling the plating voltage (and if it works, on a timer)

    Very low voltage to plate, then increase to fizz = hydrogen/deuterium.

    Low voltage-fizz-low voltage-fizz-low voltage-fizz- etc

    Try to build up multilayers Fe-H-Fe-H-Fe-H etc


    What is the nylon scrim you use in the LEC ?


    Pete


    ps. If it aint broke-------

    Sue got me fixing our tumble dryer because the felt sealing strip had fallen out.

    It turned out to be the inner waistband of my trousers.(pants in american parlance) !


    Hi Peter.


    Well, we are using the HCl method with the intention of replicating exactly what Frank Gordon and Stevenson have done. You are quite right the old sulphate/citrate thing works well, but the problem is that the electrolyte absorbs oxygen and sludges up with hydroxides/oxides, (various) Running it hot in a covered plating tank it would be fine - but cold in a beaker in the lab it doesn't last so long.


    We gave up on the nylon scrim- I have a suspicion it has a slightly conductive coating. We have gone over to using teflon-coated glass fibre mesh as sold for barbecues etc. Infinite resistance, heat-resistant and cheap.


    Look up "BBQ Grill Mat Reusable Barbecue Mesh Grill Mat Non-stick Teflon Kitchen Cooking"

    Plating trials with 5% HCl are going well.



    This was the anode at the start..


    .


    This was the anode after 72 hours...still there, just.



    The cathode has a good coat of iron, overlaid with loosely adhered black iron oxide...


    Looks like this test was a success. Tomorrow I'll test for the LEC effect.

    I have been playing around with the FeCl2 solution made by dissolving some steel wool in 10% HCl, and it seems to work well compared to my previous attempts.


    I tried it on a piece of 28x15 mm scrap copper at currents around 1.0 A and it produced a well-adhered strongly magnetic layer. I have to point out that I didn't obtain any visible result until I increased current from the initial mA level. There was a quite visible fine bubble production once I did.



    I also tried on a graphite rod (which previously had a slight electroless copper coating) and it produced a very hard layer that I can scratch steel pieces with; possibly this largely contains iron carbide.



    I don't think I will be testing anything in a LEC-type cell due to the previously noted difficulties in obtaining a reliable setup.

    Here is another attempt with the other end of the graphite rod, which was worn and thinner. I left it a bit too long in the solution or perhaps with slightly too high current (1.0A) and it deposited larger irregular amounts of Fe metal. It didn't take long.




    Bottom line: trying to deposit iron with FeCl2 solution directly may possibly work better and (much) faster.


    As a side note, halfway in the FeCl2 preparation process I considered interrupting it because not only the steel-HCl reaction evolved hydrogen, but also slight amounts of chlorine or chlorine-entrained vapor which had an annoying smell. I had to come up with an improvised scrubber system for the jar.




    EDIT: and more deposition with the copper piece. Note that it's shiny. I rinsed it in alkaline water, by the way.



    I don't see why the process has to take days, unless there are specific reasons for this.

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