Frank Gordon's "Lattice Energy Converter (LEC)"...replicators workshop

the three vertical dots in the right of every post header)

Quote from Curbina

Use the “quote” function instead, you can quote entire posts by selecting the quote option in the drop down menu (the three vertical dots in the right of every post header)

Or, alternatively, You can select a text and the options of “save quote” “insert quote” should appear in your screen if you are on a mobile.

If you choose insert quote, The text will be added to your reply, in quote format.

Hope this is nearly clear enough for being of use for you.

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Hi Curbina

I do not see the three vertical dots in the right of every post header.

Example of what my Fire fox browser shows me:

If I use the quote symbol at the bottom right and I paste text from another application I get a code box

Quote from Alan Smith

Hi Ken.

In order to raise the voltage while keeping the current at a reasonable level you will need to increase the resistance of your electrolyte. This means reducing its concentration so as to reduce the number of free ions. This paper from Spzack and Pam Boss gives the essentials for Palladium in Heavy Water, but basically there is little difference if you are using Iron in light water.

https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SzpakSreliablepr.pdf

They say in this extract :-

.

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Hi Alan Smith

I have been trying less HCI concentration but will reduce it more it my next trial.

Quote from Ken

the three vertical dots in the right of every post header)

Hi Curbina

I do not see the three vertical dots in the right of every post header.

Example of what my Fire fox browser shows me:

If I use the quote symbol at the bottom right and I paste text from another application I get a code box

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If you want to quote someone else, from not the Forum, then the 'quote balloon" button in the text edit buttons above the comment space is probably the right way.

Quote from If you want to quote someone else, from not the Forum, then the 'quote balloon" button in the text edit buttons above the comment space is probably the right way.

Hmm..test above.. maybe not. It wants a link for that but works anyways.

Quote from Stevenson

Today I discovered something interesting.

I placed a small tube (6 mm OD, 13 cm long) of copper, close to a similar tube of aluminium (the gap was about 1 mm). The tubes were connected to a multimeter with a 10 MOhm impedance (copper to positive probe, aluminium to negative probe). As expected the resulting voltage was 0.0 mV.

Hi Stevenson

You could try the Am241 pellet from a smoke detector. 1 µCurie, 60 keV

Quote from Alan Smith

Are you running at above the voltage required to split water? Anything under 2V and you are unlikely to be doing co-deposition.

I found that about 1.2 volts was enough to start the evolution of hydrogen. It appeared as very fine bubbles which formed a foam on the surface of the electrolyte. Presence of hydrogen in the foam was shown by a sensitive combustible gas detector. Of course that doesn't prove co-deposition, just the possibility of it. Previous attempts at plating with 2 volts produced a poorly adhered layer, maybe due to more entrapped gas in the deposited metal.

Quote from Ken

This is what I get if I try to paste text from another application, Quotes are not use at all in this example.

Code

“Hard deposits:
Ferrous chloride 240 gms   Potassium chloride 180 gms   water 1 lit   35 C, 3,5 A/dm2 = 35 mA cm^2”

I’ve seen a few posts with that style over the years. It may be a browser thing.

Quote from Ken

Hi Stevenson

You could try the Am241 pellet from a smoke detector. 1 µCurie, 60 keV

Frank Gordon and Harper Whitehouse mention using exactly that in their patent, and it doesn’t work!

Quote from Curbina

Frank Gordon and Harper Whitehouse mention using exactly that in their patent, and it doesn’t work!

It worked to some extent, but with a smaller effect compared to the active WE. The 1uC activity is very small in terms of generated charges per second. In my experiment also the corona discharge is less effective in generating charges (in terms of ions/s) compared to the flame.

Two more attempts at plating with Acid.

These attempts used higher voltage than previous attempts and weaker acid solutions. Power supply was set to maintain a fixed voltage rather than current.

#1

- Set volts to ~ 1.84 Volts and added acid to bring current to 2 Amps

- Current dropped to .92 Amps in 5 hours. Gray coating just starting to form

- dried with paper towel and it read 10-20 mV but dropped to 000.0mV when dried with a 60 watt lamp for ~ one minute

- back in tank, moved anode closer to maintain 2 Amps

- after 7 hours total time, very shiny but coarse, dried and LEC read 000.0 mV

#2

- fresh solution ~ 80mL acid in 1.5 L water

- brass plate ~ 2 inched from heavy iron plate Anode

- 1.37 Volts @ 2 Amps

- no coating after 1.5 hours increased volts to 1.5

- no coating after 6 hours so upped Voltage to 1.64

- no coating after 12 hours so upped voltage to 1.84V

- left over night, very heavy coating with coarse particles ~ .5mm in size(colour very shiny, chrome like) some clumps could be rubbed off with fingers.

- dried with towel and lamp and LEC read 000.0 mV

Some observations

- All trials so far will read some low voltage 2-20 mV or so if the WE is damp. Condensation can often be seen on the CE plate when this occurs.

- When dry no attempt so far has read any voltage at all.

- lower currents and voltage ~ .2 Amps, 400-600 mV yield smoother gray to dark gray plating with magnatite

- higher current and voltage over >1.84 Volts plate very fast with a coarse bright shiny coat, no obvious sign of magnetite

Left: ~ 500 mV 200 mA Right: 1.84 Volts 2 Amps

Thanks for the update Ken. In my opinion I think you should dilute your electrolyte by 50% and go again with a target voltage od 2.5-3.0V so that you can see the hydrogen bubbles flowing freely off the surface of your plate. I am still up to my neck with lab rebuild ( and rewire, repaint, re-calibrate everything) but hope to do a few more tests next month.

Alan.

Quote from Alan Smith

Thanks for the update Ken. In my opinion I think you should dilute your electrolyte by 50% and go again with a target voltage od 2.5-3.0V so that you can see the hydrogen bubbles flowing freely off the surface of your plate. I am still up to my neck with lab rebuild ( and rewire, repaint, re-calibrate everything) but hope to do a few more tests next month.

Alan.

Hi Alan,

I have found with low dilutions and .4 Amps fixed I can see tiny bubbles start to show at .7 Volts with the intensity increasing as Voltage is increased. At Currents in the 1-2 Amp range and Volts over ~1.84 I can see what looks like smoke (micro bubbles) in the solution at the top of the CE streaming toward the Anode vigorously. At 4 Amps and 2 Volts plating forms in minutes.

This is only a thought and I'm not at the moment doing any experimentation, but if you used switched polarity DC so the anode / cathodes are switched like every 5 to 10 seconds, so hydrogen is generated at a electrode then they're switched and hydrogen is then trapped by plating, don't know just an idea. Or if you had 3 electrodes and they were alternated with a donor electrode to provide plating without stripping plating off the plated hydrogen electrode so building up trapped hydrogen layers. Full of them this morning.

Ken, what about rusting of your samples?

My active WEs rusted in a very short time (less than one day, with first visible signs just after few hours). Inactive or "less active" ones took longer (few days).

Also rusting was not uniform in active WEs, it started soon in few points then spread more slowly to the entire part. I think other described something similar.

Quote from Stevenson

Ken, what about rusting of your samples?

My active WEs rusted in a very short time (less than one day, with first visible signs just after few hours). Inactive or "less active" ones took longer (few days).

Also rusting was not uniform in active WEs, it started soon in few points then spread more slowly to the entire part. I think other described something similar.

Oddly I have seen very little rusting of my plates, some are 2 weeks old and they still all look ~97% rust free. The samples coated with the acid electrolyte have a bit of of rust in spots more of a discoloration, the Alkaline ones have no rust at all. The Steel anodes rust quickly when removed from the solution. Pure Iron as opposed to steel is known to be less prone to rust. The relative humidity has been between 35-45% lately which may have some impact on the amount of rust..

Quote from Ken

Alkaline ones have no rust at all.

That's my ffnding too- the HCl plated items rust pretty quickly.

Quote from Alan Smith

That's my ffnding too- the HCl plated items rust pretty quickly.

I need to clarify. There is very little rust on the acid WE plates after one week. Slight discolorations only in small spots. Most of the coating is still shiny. They look the same today as in my post #981. The Steel Anode forms rust when removed from the solution very quickly but not the CE. I am not sure why my WEs do not seem to rust as yours and Stevenson's did?

Some observations from the experiment.

Quote from Ken

Some observations from the experiment.

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Video could not be clearer Ken. Thank you. This is what we are all about. Hopefully those having success, including Frank Gordon, can help you, and magicsound succeed. That would make this summers ICCF in Silicon Valley all the more special.

I will be doing more work on the LEC project over the next couple of months. Here's an abstract of the work I plan to present in Assisi.late September.

The LEC or 'Lattice Energy Converter' is, in its simplest form, a 2 electrode dry cell with modest electrical output. It is unique in that the only conductive medium between the anode and cathode is an ionised gas or vapour. Successful replications of the cell as described by Gordon and Whitehouse have been carried out by this author and others and encouraged by its simplicity and replicability efforts to increase its energy output are underway in laboratories in the USA, UK, and EU.

Boarding now..to be continued....

BTW- Harper Whitehouse (who is super smart btw) is of the opinion that this guy really pioneered the physics and mathematices they need to understand the LEC.

Inside the Papers of Karl K. Darrow | American Institute of Physics

It is rather intimidating to write about the papers of Karl K. Darrow. Dr. Darrow was a 20^th century intellectual and lived most of his very refined life in Manhattan. He was a physicist, a prolific writer, a gifted and witty speaker, a world traveler, an ardent patron of the arts, a connoisseur of fine food, and a guardian of decorum and proper manners. Thus, were he to be displeased with any of this effort, he would not hesitate to let the writer know – most often with subtle humor and, at times, with more than a little sarcasm.

The Darrow Papers are one of the broader collections in the Niels Bohr Library and Archives. While there is a great deal to satisfy any serious historian of physics, there is much to be learned and observed about what could be called the intellectual and/or cultural history of mid-century America and Europe. Some topics of interest include: everyday life and social interaction in Manhattan; women’s issues at the time of World War II and after; international travel, as well as travel throughout the U.S. at that time; the arts in New York including the New York Philharmonic, the Metropolitan Opera, Broadway theater, and saving Carnegie Hall in the late 1950s; Darrow family genealogy and correspondence, including a few letters of famed trial lawyer Clarence Darrow, who was Karl’s uncle....

BTW- sadly the two links given at the bottom of this article are dead...